Hogwrench
Senior Member
I am willing to bet China is blocking pretty much any videos or messages from leaving the country. Especially in Hubei province. There is almost nothing coming out from the people over there now.
CORONA Main Coronavirus thread
- Thread starter Heliobas Disciple
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I am willing to bet China is blocking pretty much any videos or messages from leaving the country. Especially in Hubei province. There is almost nothing coming out from the people over there now.
bw
Fringe Ranger
Coming soon to your neighborhood.
Samuel Adams
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Those gophers you speak of are now permanently siamesed to a smart phone, and don’t care to bother themselves with listening to some skilled old timer, regarding anything.
Perfect storm coming.
Jubilee on Earth
Veteran Member
Two things of observation and speculation on my part:
1) The news is beginning to trickle out that death rates are falling. How does anyone know for sure? Worried that might give people a false sense of security.
2) I think the CDC is relying too much on the tests, particularly in dismissing cases that come back negative. That could be disastrous. There’s evidence that not only are there false negatives, but that some tests kits are faulty.
1) The news is beginning to trickle out that death rates are falling. How does anyone know for sure? Worried that might give people a false sense of security.
2) I think the CDC is relying too much on the tests, particularly in dismissing cases that come back negative. That could be disastrous. There’s evidence that not only are there false negatives, but that some tests kits are faulty.
naegling62
Veteran Member
I believe #1 is false, it is not getting better on the mainland. As far as #2 goes, CDC has been far too blasé almost to the point of complicit.
This is telling. President Trump on the virus. All the 4chan insider intel has been correct. TPTB's 1st priority is to suppress info and prevent panic.
" ...
Trump defends China's alleged cover-up of coronavirus victims
US president claims without evidence disease will 'go away' by Aprilwww.independent.co.uk
Donald Trump has launched an extraordinary defence of China’s alleged attempts to cover-up the extent of the spread of coronavirus.
The US president, who has claimed without evidence the virus will likely “go away” by April, said Beijing has handled the epidemic “very professionally”, despite accusations the country had attempted to suppress information about the crisis.
Asked by conservative commentator Geraldo Rivera if China was telling the truth about coronavirus, Mr Trump said: “Well you never know. I think they want to put the best face on it, so you know I mean if somebody, if you were running it you’d probably, you wouldn’t want to run out to the world and go crazy and start saying whatever it is because you don’t want to create a panic.”
If everyone became aware suddenly of how bad things could get.. what would happen? Would this actually help?
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The Like emoji's could use a 'puking' face option. Or an 'smh'.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
To Tame Coronavirus, Mao-Style Social Control Blankets China
SHANGHAI — China has flooded cities and villages with battalions of neighborhood busybodies, uniformed volunteers and Communist Party representatives to carry out one of the biggest social control campaigns in history.
The goal: to keep hundreds of millions of people away from everyone but their closest kin.
The nation is battling the coronavirus outbreak with a grass-roots mobilization reminiscent of Mao-style mass crusades not seen in China in decades, essentially entrusting front line epidemic prevention to a supercharged version of a neighborhood watch.
Housing complexes in some cities have issued the equivalents of paper hall passes to regulate how often residents leave their homes. Apartment buildings have turned away their own tenants if they have come from out of town. Train stations block people from entering cities if they cannot prove they live or work there. In the countryside, villages have been gated off with vehicles, tents and other improvised barriers.
Despite China’s arsenal of high-tech surveillance tools, the controls are mainly enforced by hundreds of thousands of workers and volunteers, who check residents’ temperature, log their movements, oversee quarantines and — most important — keep away outsiders who might carry the virus.
Residential lockdowns of varying strictness — from checkpoints at building entrances to hard limits on going outdoors — now cover at least 760 million people in China, or more than half the country’s population, according to a New York Times analysis of government announcements in provinces and major cities. Many of these people live far from the city of Wuhan, where the virus was first reported and which the government sealed off last month.
Throughout China, neighborhoods and localities have issued their own rules about residents’ comings and goings, which means the total number of affected people may be even higher. Policies vary widely, leaving some places in a virtual freeze and others with few strictures.
China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, has called for an all-out “people’s war” to tame the outbreak. But the restrictions have prevented workers from returning to factories and businesses, straining China’s giant economy. And with local officials exercising such direct authority over people’s movements, it is no surprise that some have taken enforcement to extremes.
Li Jing, 40, an associate professor of sociology at Zhejiang University in the eastern city of Hangzhou, was almost barred from taking her husband to a hospital recently after he choked on a fish bone during dinner. The reason? Her neighborhood allows only one person per family to leave the house, every other day.
“Once the epidemic was disclosed, the central government put huge pressure on local officials,” Professor Li said. “That triggered competition between regions, and local governments turned from overly conservative to radical.”
“Even when the situation is relieved or if the mortality rate turns out not to be high, the government machine is unable to change direction or tune down,” she added.
China’s prevention efforts are being led by its myriad neighborhood committees, which typically serve as a go-between for residents and the local authorities. Supporting them is the government’s “grid management” system, which divides the country into tiny sections and assigns people to watch over each, ensuring a tight grip over a large population.
Zhejiang Province, on China’s southeastern seaboard, has a population of nearly 60 million and has enlisted 330,000 “grid workers.” Hubei Province, whose capital is Wuhan, has deployed 170,000. The southern province of Guangdong has called upon 177,000, landlocked Sichuan has 308,000 and the megacity of Chongqing has 118,000
The authorities are also combining enormous manpower with mobile technology to track people who may have been exposed to the virus. China’s state-run cellular providers allow subscribers to send text messages to a hotline that generates a list of provinces they have recently visited.
At a high-speed rail station in the eastern city of Yiwu this past week, workers in hazmat suits demanded that passengers send the text messages that show their location data before being allowed to leave.
An app developed by a state-run maker of military electronics lets Chinese citizens enter their name and national ID number and be told whether they may have come in contact, on a plane, train or bus, with a carrier of the virus.
It is too early to say whether China’s strategy has contained the outbreak. With large numbers of new infections being reported every day, the government has clear reasons for minimizing human contact and domestic travel. But experts say that in epidemics, overbearing measures can backfire, scaring infected people into hiding and making the outbreak harder to control.
“Public health relies on public trust,” said Alexandra L. Phelan, a specialist in global health law at Georgetown University. “These community-level quarantines and the arbitrary nature in which they’re being imposed and tied up with the police and other officials is essentially making them into punitive actions — a coercive action rather than a public health action.”
In Zhejiang, one of China’s most developed provinces and home to Alibaba and other technology companies, people have written on social media about being denied entry to their own apartments in Hangzhou, the provincial capital. Coming home from out of town, they say, they were asked to produce documents from landlords and employers or be left on the street.
For Nada Sun, who was visiting family in Wenzhou, a coastal city in Zhejiang, a health scare turned into a mandatory quarantine.
When Ms. Sun, 29, complained of tightness in her chest this month, her mother told her to go to the hospital. She did not have a high fever, yet the hospital gave her a battery of checks. All came back negative for the virus.
Even so, when she returned to her apartment, she was told that she would be quarantined for two weeks. She was also added to a group on the WeChat messaging app with a local Communist Party secretary and other volunteers in which she has to submit her temperature and location twice a day.
“I’m worried they have too much information,” Ms. Sun said.
The lockdowns are not necessarily oppressive. Many people in China have been happy to wall themselves off, ordering groceries online and working from home if they can. Some neighborhood officials act with a humane touch.
Bob Huang, a Chinese-born American living in northern Zhejiang, said the volunteers at his complex had helped chase down a man who stayed out overnight to drink, in violation of rules about how often people can step outside. Yet they also delivered food from McDonald’s to a quarantined family.
Mr. Huang, 50, has been able to dodge the restrictions by using a special pass from the property manager, and he has been driving around delivering protective face masks to friends. Some building complexes don’t let him in. Others take down his information.
A nearby village took a less orthodox approach.
“They always start asking questions in the local dialect, and if you can respond in the local dialect, you are allowed to go in,” Mr. Huang said. Unable to speak the dialect, he had to wait, though the villagers were friendly. They gave him a folding chair, offered him a cigarette and didn’t ask for an ID.
Some parts of China have imposed other, often severe policies for fending off the epidemic.
Hangzhou has barred pharmacies from selling analgesics to force people with symptoms to seek treatment at hospitals. The eastern city of Nanjing requires anybody who takes a cab to show ID and leave contact information. Yunnan Province wants all public places to display QR codes that people must scan with their phones whenever they enter or exit.
Many places have banned large gatherings. The police in Hunan Province this month destroyed a mahjong parlor where they found more than 20 people playing the tile game.
With local governments deciding such policies largely on their own, China has become a vast patchwork of fiefs.
“It can be quite haphazard,” said Zhou Xun, a historian of modern China at the University of Essex in England. “A perfect plan on paper often turns into makeshift solutions locally.”
Officials seem to recognize that some local authorities have gone too far. This month, Chen Guangsheng, the deputy secretary general of Zhejiang’s provincial government, called it “inappropriate” that some places had employed “simple and crude practices,” like locking people into their homes to enforce quarantines.
Zhang Yingzi’s apartment complex in Hangzhou initially forbade anybody who had been out of town from entering. Later, the ban was adjusted to cover only people coming from Hubei Province and the Zhejiang cities of Wenzhou and Taizhou, both of which have had many cases of the new virus.
“Banning everyone from out of town wasn’t realistic,” said Ms. Zhang, 29, an accountant. “There are so many of them, after all. Some needed to come back for work.”
Still, many in China are uneasy about loosening up virus controls too quickly.
Zhang Shu, 27, worries that her parents and neighbors are becoming cavalier about the virus, even as workers drive around her village near Wenzhou with loudspeakers telling people to stay home.
“Ordinary people are slowly starting to feel that the situation isn’t so horrible anymore,” Ms. Zhang said. “They are restless.”
Alexandra Stevenson contributed reporting from Hong Kong. Wang Yiwei and Lin Qiqing contributed research.
SHANGHAI — China has flooded cities and villages with battalions of neighborhood busybodies, uniformed volunteers and Communist Party representatives to carry out one of the biggest social control campaigns in history.
The goal: to keep hundreds of millions of people away from everyone but their closest kin.
The nation is battling the coronavirus outbreak with a grass-roots mobilization reminiscent of Mao-style mass crusades not seen in China in decades, essentially entrusting front line epidemic prevention to a supercharged version of a neighborhood watch.
Housing complexes in some cities have issued the equivalents of paper hall passes to regulate how often residents leave their homes. Apartment buildings have turned away their own tenants if they have come from out of town. Train stations block people from entering cities if they cannot prove they live or work there. In the countryside, villages have been gated off with vehicles, tents and other improvised barriers.
Despite China’s arsenal of high-tech surveillance tools, the controls are mainly enforced by hundreds of thousands of workers and volunteers, who check residents’ temperature, log their movements, oversee quarantines and — most important — keep away outsiders who might carry the virus.
Residential lockdowns of varying strictness — from checkpoints at building entrances to hard limits on going outdoors — now cover at least 760 million people in China, or more than half the country’s population, according to a New York Times analysis of government announcements in provinces and major cities. Many of these people live far from the city of Wuhan, where the virus was first reported and which the government sealed off last month.
Throughout China, neighborhoods and localities have issued their own rules about residents’ comings and goings, which means the total number of affected people may be even higher. Policies vary widely, leaving some places in a virtual freeze and others with few strictures.
China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, has called for an all-out “people’s war” to tame the outbreak. But the restrictions have prevented workers from returning to factories and businesses, straining China’s giant economy. And with local officials exercising such direct authority over people’s movements, it is no surprise that some have taken enforcement to extremes.
Li Jing, 40, an associate professor of sociology at Zhejiang University in the eastern city of Hangzhou, was almost barred from taking her husband to a hospital recently after he choked on a fish bone during dinner. The reason? Her neighborhood allows only one person per family to leave the house, every other day.
“Once the epidemic was disclosed, the central government put huge pressure on local officials,” Professor Li said. “That triggered competition between regions, and local governments turned from overly conservative to radical.”
“Even when the situation is relieved or if the mortality rate turns out not to be high, the government machine is unable to change direction or tune down,” she added.
China’s prevention efforts are being led by its myriad neighborhood committees, which typically serve as a go-between for residents and the local authorities. Supporting them is the government’s “grid management” system, which divides the country into tiny sections and assigns people to watch over each, ensuring a tight grip over a large population.
Zhejiang Province, on China’s southeastern seaboard, has a population of nearly 60 million and has enlisted 330,000 “grid workers.” Hubei Province, whose capital is Wuhan, has deployed 170,000. The southern province of Guangdong has called upon 177,000, landlocked Sichuan has 308,000 and the megacity of Chongqing has 118,000
The authorities are also combining enormous manpower with mobile technology to track people who may have been exposed to the virus. China’s state-run cellular providers allow subscribers to send text messages to a hotline that generates a list of provinces they have recently visited.
At a high-speed rail station in the eastern city of Yiwu this past week, workers in hazmat suits demanded that passengers send the text messages that show their location data before being allowed to leave.
An app developed by a state-run maker of military electronics lets Chinese citizens enter their name and national ID number and be told whether they may have come in contact, on a plane, train or bus, with a carrier of the virus.
It is too early to say whether China’s strategy has contained the outbreak. With large numbers of new infections being reported every day, the government has clear reasons for minimizing human contact and domestic travel. But experts say that in epidemics, overbearing measures can backfire, scaring infected people into hiding and making the outbreak harder to control.
“Public health relies on public trust,” said Alexandra L. Phelan, a specialist in global health law at Georgetown University. “These community-level quarantines and the arbitrary nature in which they’re being imposed and tied up with the police and other officials is essentially making them into punitive actions — a coercive action rather than a public health action.”
In Zhejiang, one of China’s most developed provinces and home to Alibaba and other technology companies, people have written on social media about being denied entry to their own apartments in Hangzhou, the provincial capital. Coming home from out of town, they say, they were asked to produce documents from landlords and employers or be left on the street.
For Nada Sun, who was visiting family in Wenzhou, a coastal city in Zhejiang, a health scare turned into a mandatory quarantine.
When Ms. Sun, 29, complained of tightness in her chest this month, her mother told her to go to the hospital. She did not have a high fever, yet the hospital gave her a battery of checks. All came back negative for the virus.
Even so, when she returned to her apartment, she was told that she would be quarantined for two weeks. She was also added to a group on the WeChat messaging app with a local Communist Party secretary and other volunteers in which she has to submit her temperature and location twice a day.
“I’m worried they have too much information,” Ms. Sun said.
The lockdowns are not necessarily oppressive. Many people in China have been happy to wall themselves off, ordering groceries online and working from home if they can. Some neighborhood officials act with a humane touch.
Bob Huang, a Chinese-born American living in northern Zhejiang, said the volunteers at his complex had helped chase down a man who stayed out overnight to drink, in violation of rules about how often people can step outside. Yet they also delivered food from McDonald’s to a quarantined family.
Mr. Huang, 50, has been able to dodge the restrictions by using a special pass from the property manager, and he has been driving around delivering protective face masks to friends. Some building complexes don’t let him in. Others take down his information.
A nearby village took a less orthodox approach.
“They always start asking questions in the local dialect, and if you can respond in the local dialect, you are allowed to go in,” Mr. Huang said. Unable to speak the dialect, he had to wait, though the villagers were friendly. They gave him a folding chair, offered him a cigarette and didn’t ask for an ID.
Some parts of China have imposed other, often severe policies for fending off the epidemic.
Hangzhou has barred pharmacies from selling analgesics to force people with symptoms to seek treatment at hospitals. The eastern city of Nanjing requires anybody who takes a cab to show ID and leave contact information. Yunnan Province wants all public places to display QR codes that people must scan with their phones whenever they enter or exit.
Many places have banned large gatherings. The police in Hunan Province this month destroyed a mahjong parlor where they found more than 20 people playing the tile game.
With local governments deciding such policies largely on their own, China has become a vast patchwork of fiefs.
“It can be quite haphazard,” said Zhou Xun, a historian of modern China at the University of Essex in England. “A perfect plan on paper often turns into makeshift solutions locally.”
Officials seem to recognize that some local authorities have gone too far. This month, Chen Guangsheng, the deputy secretary general of Zhejiang’s provincial government, called it “inappropriate” that some places had employed “simple and crude practices,” like locking people into their homes to enforce quarantines.
Zhang Yingzi’s apartment complex in Hangzhou initially forbade anybody who had been out of town from entering. Later, the ban was adjusted to cover only people coming from Hubei Province and the Zhejiang cities of Wenzhou and Taizhou, both of which have had many cases of the new virus.
“Banning everyone from out of town wasn’t realistic,” said Ms. Zhang, 29, an accountant. “There are so many of them, after all. Some needed to come back for work.”
Still, many in China are uneasy about loosening up virus controls too quickly.
Zhang Shu, 27, worries that her parents and neighbors are becoming cavalier about the virus, even as workers drive around her village near Wenzhou with loudspeakers telling people to stay home.
“Ordinary people are slowly starting to feel that the situation isn’t so horrible anymore,” Ms. Zhang said. “They are restless.”
Alexandra Stevenson contributed reporting from Hong Kong. Wang Yiwei and Lin Qiqing contributed research.
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Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
This is the document that should be at the top of the President's Daily Intelligence Briefing. Paging Mike111, who do you know who could bump this up the chain?Expert Recommendations for US and Global Preparedness for COVID-19
by The Center for Global Development
13 Feb 2020
The novel coronavirus outbreak that emerged in late 2019 has infected tens of thousands in China, community transmission is feared in other countries, and containment looks increasingly unlikely. The world is woefully unready for a scenario in which China-like conditions emerge in multiple other countries. The US, in particular, should not assume it is immune to a major domestic outbreak. While the prevention and control measures in numerous countries may delay the outbreak’s spread, they are unlikely to prevent it. Efforts are underway to develop medical countermeasures, but these are unlikely to be ready for widespread use for at least one to two years; meanwhile, the virus has shown in China that it can grow from introduction to a sizable outbreak in just weeks.
There is an urgent but closing window to prepare for large-scale spread of the disease in the US and elsewhere. This paper recommends actions to address pressing gaps in US and global preparedness in the event that COVID-19 cannot be contained and sustained human-to-human transmission occurs beyond China. These recommendations are critical both for this outbreak and for future epidemic threats. The paper draws on consultations over the past two weeks involving experts from the Center for Global Development, the Georgetown Center for Global Health Science and Security, the Nuclear Threat Initiative|Bio, the University of Nebraska Medical Center’s College of Public Health, and In-Q-Tel/B.Next.
Recommendations for Action
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
- Develop policy guidance for mitigating outbreaks when the normal health system becomes overwhelmed. The US government should outline contingency plans for mitigating mass-scale domestic transmission of the virus and for providing mass-scale isolation and treatment. As the US updates its national pandemic planning, it should also develop clear mechanisms for distributed care, including home diagnosis and isolation, and clear guidance and options to local authorities for social distancing measures. Federal and state health authorities should review the crisis thresholds at which these measures would be triggered. In the interim, federal officials should provide regularly updated guidance on best practices for social distancing measures. The US National Academies of Medicine could also convene medical technology companies to recommend investments to improve home isolation and care during a major epidemic or pandemic.
- Scale up support to frontline health workers. In any novel outbreak, frontline health workers bear the greatest risks. In China, reports portray shocking levels of infections among health facility staff, as workers struggle to maintain services amid a growing wave of cases. A comparably sized outbreak in the US might play out similarly; the US health system has limited surge capacity and inadequate support for outbreak readiness. In the immediate term, urgent measures must be taken to ready frontline health workers to safely manage a surge in cases. This must include training and guidance on screening, case management, and infection prevention protocols. It must also address crisis care guidance for health facilities on managing limitations on bed availability and critical supplies. Importantly, this guidance and support should focus not only on hospitals, but also on smaller clinics and urgent care centers where people with COVID-19 symptoms may initially present. The government should also act to address the financial burden that a surge in cases would also pose, as health systems would be forced to increase staffing, hours, personnel risk mitigation, and other measures outside normal budgeted services.
- Pursue additional manufacturing capability and reinforce the existing supply chain for personal protective equipment (PPE) and other critical medical supplies. The US should urgently review its PPE supply chain—for domestic and international use—to determine availability of basic PPE during a respiratory epidemic of COVID-19. The US should urgently develop and publicly communicate plans for PPE distribution within the US and globally. It should also develop options for addressing PPE shortfalls, including scaling up PPE manufacturing, and parameters for reuse in crisis conditions. At a global level, the World Health Organization (WHO) should lead and publish a review of vulnerabilities in the global supply of PPE and explore urgent new mechanisms for global sharing and distribution of limited PPE stores. These analyses should also include other critical medical supplies and equipment that could face shortfalls in a pandemic scenario.
- Communicate regularly to the public through trusted experts. Fear, panic, and mis/disinformation will exacerbate preparedness gaps and cost lives. The US should continue to communicate outbreak information to the American public through scientifically credible communicators. The recent practice of communicating through knowledgeable senior HHS, CDC, and NIH officials has been positive and should be maintained. These officials should regularly update the public on planning for COVID-19 spread in the US and globally.'
- Increase and sustain domestic and global preparedness investments. US pandemic preparedness planning at a federal level waxes and wanes in the absence of a crisis. With the expiration of the 2015 Ebola funding for hospital preparedness, the US must create a more sustainable financing model for hospital epidemic preparedness, as well as preparedness within broader health systems and among urgent care facilities and walk-in clinics. Importantly, the approach used on Ebola—designating a small number of highly capable reference facilities—would be insufficient to meet needs of a more widespread domestic outbreak of COVID-19. Guidance and mechanisms for supplying surge capacity in crisis situations also remains a gap. Funding to enhance public health preparedness for major outbreaks is also inadequate, and needs sustained ongoing support. Meanwhile, at state and local levels, the executive branch should support governors and mayors to develop and exercise preparedness plans for COVID-19 and other emerging pandemic risks.
- Address urgent vulnerabilities in the developing world. A virus that can strain a health system like China’s will pose enormous challenges to health systems in poor and underdeveloped countries. As Ebola outbreaks have demonstrated, infection prevention is weak, and frontline health workers in the developing world are at particular risk. The US should partner with other donors, philanthropies, and the WHO to reinforce pandemic preparedness and infection prevention and control readiness in the developing world, both urgently for the current outbreak and through longer-term health security investments.
- Support coordinated international action. The COVID-19 outbreak is rapidly becoming an international coordination challenge. While the WHO declaration of a Public Health Emergency of International Concern was intended to align international engagement and investments, it has not prevented countries from imposing sweeping travel restrictions despite WHO advice to the contrary. The political and diplomatic challenges around this outbreak will only become more fraught in the weeks ahead. The UN Secretary-General and the WHO Director-General should jointly convene a special UN Security Council meeting to harmonize international action on the outbreak, and consider setting up a standing coordination and leadership platform for high-consequence biological events, such as those with the potential to overwhelm national governments, within the Office of the UN Secretary-General.
- Support research and innovative technologies. As with any emerging disease, a tremendous amount of knowledge must be generated to understand the nature of the virus; develop, test, and manufacture medical countermeasures; and determine the evolving epidemiology, best practices for clinical care, and the impact on populations, economies, and security. Likewise, technological innovations hold the potential to support the response to COVID-19 and future major pandemics. Technologies like digital health platforms, rapid point of care diagnostics, and population-level data tools are achievable and could prove important to the response. The US should support collaborative research and innovation, integrating professionals from academia, the private sector, and government to develop and validate knowledge to mitigate the outbreak. This should include pursuit of regulatory, logistic, and broad platform and manufacturing innovation to accelerate bringing solutions into timely use.
- Amplify diagnostic capacity. Diagnostic capacity for COVID-19 in the US remains limited, with samples going to centralized CDC and state public health labs and at times taking several days to convey results. These turnaround times burden frontline hospitals that must isolate patients for extended periods while awaiting results. Volumes remain limited even with CDC distribution of its emergency use authorized test kits. Efforts are needed to scale up testing capacity, including through accelerating investments in rapid point-of-care testing.
- Develop new partnerships to distribute and dispense medical countermeasures for COVID-19 now, before they come online. Last-mile dispensing of medical countermeasures has not been solved in the US. While there has been progress in major cities, the US should urgently assess its plans, staffing, and partnerships with the private sector for administering and dispensing medical countermeasures for COVID-19 once they come online. These plans should account for a variety of circumstances, including vaccine hesitancy; hard-to-reach communities; protection of healthcare workers and others administering, delivering, or dispensing medical countermeasures; and other disruptions that could impede medical countermeasure delivery, dispensing, or administration.
This article is courtesy of the Center for Global Development.
Expert Recommendations for US and Global Preparedness for COVID-19
The world is woefully unready for a scenario in which China-like conditions emerge in multiple other countries.globalbiodefense.com
Last edited:
library lady
Veteran Member
Deleted
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
While in total agreement with the upper portion still in black ink, I disagree with the portion in red ink.
My reason: Two things are totally different between our two countries. 1) type of government Totalitarian vs (still viewed as) Republic. Under the Totalitarian system they can do things we can't and won't even try. Quarantine New York? Not going to happen. 2) Different Cultures. While having different cultures doesn't mean people are dumb, it does mean they view and react different. In China the culture is submissive to authority, meaning if the government/authority tells them to do something, they will. In the US (and you don't have to be Southern for this) there are a lot of rebels that won't do, or submit to, authority, just because.
The 2A disagreement in VA is an example.
psychgirl
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yes! Mike111, are you reading?
Flashyzipp
Veteran Member
Haha yeah! Where is Cappy anyways?
TrueNorthNomads
Contributing Member
If dead bodies weren’t able to carry contagions then there would be no need for researchers to dig up corpses to recover live samples of the Spanish flu from 1918. Your “proclamation” is wrong.
Scientists Describe How 1918 Influenza Virus Sample Was Exhumed In Alaska
In an article in the journal Antiviral Therapy, scientists at NIAID narrate the story of how scientists discovered samples of the 1918 strain in fixed autopsy tissues and in the body of a woman buried in the Alaskan permafrost. The article places this discovery in the context of decades of...www.sciencedaily.com
From article link:
“In a mass grave in a remote Inuit village near the town of Brevig Mission, a large Inuit woman lay buried under more than six feet of ice and dirt for more than 75 years. The permafrost plus the woman's ample fat stores kept the virus in her lungs so well preserved that when a team of scientists exhumed her body in the late 1990s, they could recover enough viral RNA to sequence the 1918 strain in its entirety. This remarkable good fortune enabled these scientists to open a window onto a past pandemic--and perhaps gain a foothold for preventing a future one.”
We were not discussing remote Inuit villages, nor bodies frozen in permafrost, but rather the reason for the mass cremation of dead bodies infected with the COVID19 virus. We (as in the human race) have been using cryogenics to preserve live viruses since we learned how to.
Sans the use of cryogenics, corona viruses die within 72 hours after the death of the host.
Kathy.
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Good news if so, but how could they live on hard surfaces for 9 days if they die in 72 hours?
EMICT
Veteran Member
Upon death, unless refrigerated, the human body becomes extremely 'toxic' during the decomposition process.
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thank you, that makes sense. But why then does plague last so long? Vastly different structure/beast?
SmithJ
Veteran Member
So your “proclamation” is not absolute, it now contains qualifications. You say we are not discussing remote Inuit villages. Ok, let’s go back to your exact post:
Naturallysweet said: “Bodies stay infectious after they die.”
You proclaimed that: “Nonsense!”
Then you told Melodi (rather snidely) “I’m sorry; I don’t know Nightwolf. I’ll stand by my proclamation...”
Now you say, “corona viruses die within 72 hours after the death of the host”...
Hmmmm.....I think I’ll rely on other sources.....
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Samoa was one of the few places on earth that was not hit by the 1918 Great Influenza pandemic. They forced people to quarantine on ships until they were sure the danger had passed. The Samoa Islanders remember the story from their history and that includes the younger generations. - OGM
Fair use.
Samoa turns away eight of its own citizens over coronavirus fears
Refusal of entry to citizens after transiting through Singapore is illegal, expert warns
Samoa’s decision to refuse entry into the country of eight of its citizens over coronavirus fears has been criticised as a violation of international law by a legal expert.
Eight people were denied entry into Samoa over the weekend as they returned home from India, travelling through Singapore. The day before their flight, Singapore was added to a list of countries from which the Samoan government said it would not accept travellers until they had been quarantined for 14 days.
The group included five patients who had been in India for medical treatment. They were returned to Nadi, Fiji, their last port of departure, along with 11 others and are now being quarantined at the Grand Melanesian hotel in Nadi.
“On their way home, the Samoans had transited through Singapore, one of the six countries listed as a high risk from the coronavirus in the government’s latest updated travel advisory issued over the weekend. As a result, they were denied entry and returned to Fiji last night,” the Samoan government said in a statement on the weekend.
Jorge Contesse, the director of the Center for Transnational Law at Rutgers Law School in the US, said the incident was potentially a violation of international law.
“It is a violation of human rights international law for a country to deny the right of return of their own national. There is a human right to return to your home country and countries cannot deprive you of this right in a way that is arbitrary. That is a principle enshrined in UN human rights, and is a basic international human right as observed through human instruments and the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR),” said Contesse.
Samoa is a party to the ICCPR and acceded in 2008.
“It is a fundamental right. On the understanding that your country is the place you feel safe in, therefore it is unlawful for your own country to deny re-entry,” said Contesse.
In an editorial on Wednesday, the Fiji Sun newspaper condemned the decision, saying it was “morally wrong for Samoa to refuse entry to eight of its citizens”, calling it “unacceptable and tantamount to dereliction of duty by a sovereign state”.
The Samoan government has introduced stringent quarantine measures for the coronavirus – now called Covid-19 – as it is dealing with intense criticism of its handling the measles epidemic that killed more than 80 people in 2019.
The government has also been criticised for its initial response to the coronavirus, with the Samoan government initially saying Samoan students would not be evacuated from Wuhan, though four were later evacuated on the Air New Zealand flight and are being quarantined in New Zealand.
A parent of a Samoan student in Wuhan wrote on social media: “We must be the only country turning away our own citizens to be quarantined elsewhere. What is the difference of being quarantined in Fiji and not Faleolo hospital as been advertised? This is most bizarre.”
According to Contesse the violation is determined by the arbitrary nature of the decision to deny reentry.
“Samoa needs to show that the decision is not arbitrary … Were there any other alternatives, because under international law, if the country has an alternative … then the country must enact that measure first.”
“Based on this case, the eight citizens could have been quarantined in Samoa, their own country or provided alternative measures that did not infringe on their rights of reentry. If there were any other ways for the Samoan government to protect its population they should have chosen that as a measure,” said Contesse.
Link to source:
Samoa turns away eight of its own citizens over coronavirus fears
Refusal of entry to citizens after transiting through Singapore is illegal, expert warnswww.theguardian.com
WOO Alert: pass on by if you don't want to see woo...
Sure seems TPTB want this to spread...
quarantine definition: A condition, period of time, or place in which a person, animal, plant, vehicle, or amount of material suspected of carrying an infectious agent is kept in confinement or isolated in an effort to prevent disease from spreading.
If you are quarantined until you are confirmed to have the virus and are then removed . . . this is not quarantine . . . it is incubation.
If you are quarantined because you are not ill and wish to prevent intrusion of the illness . . . this is not quarantine . . . it is cloistered (like a nun in a convent)
Self Quarantine is an oxymoron because the first thing anyone does when they are quarantined is try to get out. And they get sick, they are getting out.
In order to know when they are lying to you, you have to understand the meaning of words.
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
For fair use. A friend who knows I am following this closely mentioned copper for fighting virii. So I found this interesting article:
theconversation.com
Copper is great at killing superbugs – so why don’t hospitals use it?
Lack of knowledge and perceived cost issues could be holding back the fight against the superbugs.
theconversation.com
As I have stated many times, Trump is without a doubt the luckiest politician I have ever seen. Pray that his luck continues.
But I tell you this. In 1938, I had a 4yr old cousin fall off his tricycle and bruise his hip. It went septic and he died. No antibiotics in those days.
That sort of thing starts happening now because the antibiotic production chain has broken, you will have an electorate going into the voting booth in a very ugly mood. And they are going to vote out whomever is in.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thank heavens this isn't a genetically engineered virus with the intent of reducing the population!
Geesh.
Zahra
Veteran Member
4:49 pm Feb 16
Yokohama, Japan announced on Sat that a man from the city's fire department who rescued infected patients from the Diamond Princess cruise ship has been infected with NCP, raising concerns in the city as the man was wearing a protective suit: Yomiuri Shimbun
Real-time update on coronavirus outbreak - Global Times
www.globaltimes.cn
I'm just thinking about this some, and I wonder if the problem isn't with the protective suit but might be that the man wearing it might have slipped up in some way when removing it?
What I'm saying, and mainly as just food for thought, is that how we take off protective equipment is just as important as wearing it in the first place. For example, it's possible that this man wasn't double gloved and he touched part of the outside (contaminated) part of his gloves with bare hands while removing them (or something). Just something to keep in mind - one slip up in meticulous attention to details could be fatal.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Including the guy who's whole platform has been basically to bring manufacturing back to our own country? hmmm.
psychgirl
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Truth! Genealogy records show I had a Great Aunt die of tonsillitis. She was only 18yrs old.
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Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
And especially if it becomes clear to them how hand in hand the Dem party has been with China in general and also if so in this particular area...
If they are angry enough, they won't differentiate. Like I said, let us hope Trumps luck continues..
Zahra
Veteran Member
YEP, combine the inaccuracy rates of the testing methods with the prolonged prodromal period plus evidence of viable virus presence remaining in those "cured" and I think the window for "containment" has already closed.
EMICT
Veteran Member
Short answer. The plague is a bacteria. It does not need a 'host' cell to reproduce. A virus needs a 'living' host cell to reproduce.
I lost a 14 yr old aunt in 1910. Family tradition, tonsils swelled up, cut off the air passage and she strangled to death in her mother's arms in the buggy on the way to the doc.. Apparently a favorite daughter, 30 yrs later, something reminded my grand mother of her, Gram would burst into tears.
Hard times and they may return.
In my 'vacation' in Johns Hopkins last October before the Chinese Plague, the workers there all used double gloves. Standard gloves on first and then sterilized set over them.
Craftypatches
Veteran Member
I hope it’s ok to take a screenshot since I’m on an iPad. I’ve been following Amir for quite sometime! He is very truthful about things he says! Probably we all know this but he shares the information and the globalists plans in writing. I guess it would not put it on here and Im not sure how to remove this! It was from the Georgia Files.
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annieosage
Inactive
OT but I was quarantined by the health department in 1988. My DD who was 15 months at the time had the measles. She was scheduled for her shots the following month- a month too late. Measles were practically unheard of at the time. The lady at the health department blamed it on illegals because they were afraid to get vax'd for fear of deportation. We had a neon orange or pink (can't remember which) sign on the door to our apartment. It literally said "QUARANTINE". My Mom would bring groceries to us because she really didn't care. All she knew was her grandbaby was sick. I think it lasted 10 days.
It became a huge outbreak in the L.A. area. Here's an article about it:
I Was on the Front Line of L.A.'s Last Measles Outbreak
rafter
Since 1999
Orchestra played while the titanic was sinking also
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Lucky for us they're trying soooo hard to protect us from the NCoV!
Here's some intereting info from Florida:
University of Florida to professors: Stop ordering sick students to take coronavirus tests
Florida’s flagship university is warning its professors to stop requiring students who may be visibly sick to leave class and be tested for the new coronavirus. The orders from the University…
www.sun-sentinel.com
"
University of Florida to professors: Stop ordering sick students to take coronavirus tests
By Audrey Mostek
Fresh Take Florida |
Feb 14, 2020 | 1:04 PM
| GAINESVILLE
Florida’s flagship university is warning its professors to stop requiring students who may be visibly sick to leave class and be tested for the new coronavirus.
The orders from the University of Florida reflect rising anxieties about the illness on a campus with more than 6,000 international students amid the virus’s rapid global spread — even though there have been no reported cases in Florida.
The university would not identify the professors involved, say exactly how many students had been ordered out of classrooms or specify whether the actions targeted international students. An email to deans and department chairs from the Office of the Provost — obtained by the Fresh Take Florida news service — made clear it was improper to kick out students until they could prove they were free of the virus.
RELATED: Surgeon General says Florida is clear of coronavirus — for now »
“While instructors are encouraged to care for their students and their health, please inform your instructors that they are not to excuse a student from class to confirm they are free of the coronavirus,” wrote Rebecca Holt, the school’s executive assistant to the provost, Joseph Glover."
Annnnnd:
Cerabino: Sorry, the coronavirus in Florida is a state secret
What’s going on with the coronavirus in Florida ? Sorry, you can’t find out. It’s a secret. It...
www.palmbeachpost.com
"Florida Department of Health cites patient confidentiality law as reason not to inform public
What’s going on with the coronavirus in Florida?
Sorry, you can’t find out. It’s a secret.
It doesn’t sound like it should be a secret, but according to the Florida Department of Health, it has to be a secret.
“We are bound by a specific statute and can’t release the information,” explained Alberto Moscoso, the communications director for the Florida Department of Health.
Related content
Cerabino: A recipe for renaming Dixie Highway in Palm Beach County
February 10, 2020
Cerabino: Former Spanish River High principal in denial about Holocaust excuse
February 4, 2020
Maybe. Maybe not.
The state gave regular public updates on Zika, a mosquito-borne virus that infected more than 100 Floridians three years ago.
There was no problem with public updates then. But we know precious little about the coronavirus in Florida.
Gov. Ron DeSantis casually dribbled out a little information two weeks ago during a press event at Omni Middle School in Boca Raton, where he was touting an expansion of speech and debate programs in schools.
“Everybody to this date that has been tested has come back negative,” he said.
We don’t know anything about these everybodies or where they lived. Or about the somebody who got tested last week at Memorial Regional Hospital in Hollywood, according to the Sun-Sentinel, but not confirmed by the state.
Why the secrecy? If a virus that began in China two months ago and has already spread to 28 countries, including the United States, don’t the people of Florida have a right to be kept in the loop?
The state law cited is a passage in the Florida Administrative Code that says “all information contained in laboratory reports, notifiable disease or condition case reports and in related epidemiological investigatory notes is confidential.”
But the passage goes on to note three exceptions for releasing otherwise confidential disease or condition case reports to the public.
The exceptions are:
(1) If the state’s health department determines public release of information is warranted “due to the highly infectious nature of the disease.”
(2) If the release of information would be useful to reduce “the potential for further outbreaks.”
(3) If the release helps to identify or locate people in contact with the cases.
If one of those conditions is true, it trumps the patient confidentiality requirement.
In the case of the coronavirus, it wouldn’t be a stretch to argue that there’s more than enough wiggle room in the law for the state health department to be transparent with the public.
Using “patient privacy” as an excuse to tamp down information on a virus well on its way to becoming a pandemic says more about tourism than public safety in Florida.
The lack of openness has become a trend in Florida, as more and more public records become private.
For example, this legislative session, lawmakers are proposing a bill that would keep their home addresses private.
Not disclosing their home addresses is more than an unwarranted personal safety issue. It shields the public from the valuable information of knowing which representatives live outside their own legislative districts.
Another example of codified secrecy run amok is the recently passed Marsy’s Law, a state Constitutional amendment that was sold primarily as a way to inform crime victims about the dates their cases would be heard in court.
It also has a provision that allows crime victims to have their identities kept secret in public records. This provision is now being used by police officers who are involved in situations where they use force in the line of duty.
By claiming that they are crime victims while making an arrest, some officers are using Marsy’s Law to shield their names from being disclosed in use-of-force cases, including ones where they use lethal force.
And to take it even further, the Jacksonville Police Department is using the law to keep secret the addresses where some crimes occur.
So, I guess it shouldn’t be surprising that Florida’s reaction to a viral outbreak is less public information, not more.
It’s all part of the secrecy virus on the loose in Florida."
bw
Fringe Ranger
If they're quarantining people coming from elsewhere, they should at least be segregating them into arrival packets, isolated from earlier and later arrivals. Then when each group finishes the quarantine they're good to go. If they aren't isolating, then no one can legitimately be released until three weeks after the last arrival.
TxGal
Day by day
My DM contracted strep throat about 1930 or so as a child. It went into scarlet fever, and then rheumatic fever that affected her heart valves, giving her rheumatic heart disease. Had several heart valve operations later in life, and chronic congestive heart failure in the end.
Again, no antibiotics back then. Strep throat could be a killer.
Marthanoir
TB Fanatic
Way behind in the thread been up the walls busy getting stuff done but..
St Patricks Day is 17th March, those Paddys Day events in the US get mighty busy.
The St. Patrick's Day Parade in New York City is not only one of the oldest parades in the United States, it's also the largest. At almost six hours long with more than 2 milllion attendees and 100,000 participants,
That's just one parade