CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

R

rondaben

Veteran Member
marsh said:
A question for our medical types - with washing my hands so frequently, they have become very dry. If I use lotion on them, won't that defeat the purpose of washing them and attract picking up the virus? What do professionals use to keep skin from drying out?
Click to expand...

The most effective drying agent for your hands is water. Even moreso than many of the alcohol based hand sanitizers.

Lotion is good. Depending on what you are doing you may not HAVE to use soap and water ALL of the time. Consider using the 70% alcohol hand sanitizers that have Vitamin E included. THey do help with the dryness and still provide good sanitary. There are some foams that do the same as well as sprays but they are much more expensive (but work very, very well). For example, it is not unusual in surgery to do an initial surgical scrub in (5 min or so). We maintain sterility after the scrub in and often double glove to prevent contamination. Between cases it is not unusual to use one of these advanced gels or foams instead of a full scrub in wash.

The key is keeping your hands as clean as possible between. If you are wearing gloves while you are doing things, gel between changes.
 
R

rondaben

Veteran Member
Heliobas Disciple said:
I have a new theory. (thanks to the posts about this "church" that brought them to my attention)

THIS VIRUS WAS A BIO WEAPON SPREAD BY THE SHINCHEONJI CHURCH OF SK.

Remember all those videos we saw of people in elevators in China spitting on the buttons, etc. These church members somehow got this virus, maybe one of them worked at the lab and snuck it out, brought it to the wet market and then spread it around the globe. That's why some of the new countries are baffled as to how it got into their countries. A lot of them can trace it to the SK cultists who were tourists. They are deliberately trying to issue in their messiah and bring about the end of the world.

read this twitter feed for more, I formatted it so it's easier to read:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1231871985862545408
View: https://twitter.com/Spainkiller/status/1231871985862545408

Sam @Spainkiller
4:14 AM · Feb 24, 2020

The Coronavirus Chronicles keep getting weirder and weirder.

You've probably heard about the sudden outbreak of the virus in South Korea. Well, did you also know that this is, in large part, to thank to an actual death cult? It's called #Shincheonji, and it's super scary.

The 31st Coronavirus case in South Korea was a member of the Shincheonji cult. She's considered a superspreader, and it's unclear how she has contracted the virus, as she hasn't traveled to Wuhan, China or even anywhere abroad. Scary.

Members of the Shincheonji cult are ordered not to fear diseases, not to wear face masks, not to miss meetings, and to pray together in close-knit circles. Makes you wonder why, eh?

The cult is almost 36 years old and is lead a by an 88-year old man named Lee Man-hee, who believes he is both Satan and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Much more dangerously, however, is the fact that his teachings are based on his unique interpretation of biblical texts.

I.e. Shincheonji believes that Lee Man-hee is the only one that can accurately interpret the Bible. That has lead to incredibly exclusionary teachings, similar to the '144.000 saints' teaching of the Jehova's Witnesses.

Most dangerously, Lee Man-hee is very eschatology-focused, in such a way that people within Schincheonji have claimed that they are not simply beholding the End Times, but are actively *bringing it about*.

This is also why some believe that they've purposefully spread the virus.

Schincheonji, like other cults, have very deceitful and aggressive ways of recruiting new members. E.g. they pose as a non-denominational christian church and gain your trust after months of 'bible study' before exposing their true teachings and loyalty to Lee Man-hee.

These tactics have resulted in the recruitment of atheists, agnostics and christians, which is why the cult has shown explosive growth in the last decade.

They've grown so massively, in fact, that they've set up lots of cell branches in many countries over the last few years.

This especially is scary considering how much they love to 'stay in touch' with all of their cell branches now that we know how fond they are of pathogens.

We haven't nearly reached peak scaremongering yet, however.

1) The cult has spread similar diseases twice before.
2) Infected members of the cult have been using travel extensively in the past few weeks, including to Israel.
3) They had a branch in Wuhan.
4) They scrubbed that branch off the internet immediately after the Wuhan outbreak.
5) Around half of all Korean Coronavirus cases are tied to the cult.
6) Lee Man-hee claims that his Messianic powers won't be fully manifested until after the apocalypse. Which "is close".
7) Shincheonji has gotten such an obvious bad reputation in South Korea that members have started lying about their affiliation in order to secretly continue their practices + recruitment.
8) As with any cult, it's almost impossible to leave. Apostates are threatened and abused.
9) Oh, yeah, Lee Man-hee also claims he's immortal, by the way. The guy's ****ing insane.

Make no mistake, people: Shincheonji has nothing to do with christianity (they're just using the name of Jesus Christ to further Lee's beliefs) and is the worst kind of cult.

Think I'm making shit up? One of the most popular apps in S. Korea right now is one that alerts you if you're close to one of Shincheonji's 'churches' or other affiliated establishments. Of which there are over 730 across S. Korea alone, btw.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are the source, but they are certainly efficient spreaders.

Whether that is intentional or not I cannot say.
 
K

ktrapper

Veteran Member
end game said:
Got ya with the license plate reader and the facial recognition software.
Click to expand...
I definitely get what you are saying and fully understand the tracking capabilities.
If the order does come to self isolate I can isolate like no one else. I don’t have the need to go anywhere and socialize with anyone. I am completely content being a hermit.
I just saying we live way out anyway, backed up to the Bob Marshall wilderness.
I wasn’t trying to be a smart alec.
 
Trivium Pursuit

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
jward said:
Snippet and link to study
Full study found: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30079-5/fulltext
Clinical course and outcomes of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia in Wuhan, China: a single-centered, retrospective, observational study

Implications of all the available evidence
The mortality of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia at 28 days is considerable. The survival time of non-survivors is likely to be within 1–2 weeks after ICU admission. Older patients (>65 years) with comorbidities and ARDS are at increased risk of death. The severity of SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia poses great strain on critical care resources in hospitals, especially if they are not adequately staffed or resourced.

Outcomes
The primary outcome was 28-day mortality after ICU admission. Secondary outcomes were incidence of SARS-CoV-2-related acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). ARDS and shock were defined according to the guidance of WHO for novel coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).
6
Acute kidney injury was identified on the basis of serum creatinine.
11
Cardiac injury was diagnosed if the serum concentration of hypersensitive cardiac troponin I (hsTNI) was above the upper limit of the reference range (>28 pg/mL), measured in the laboratory of Jin Yin-tan Hospital.

Statistical analysis
The aim of this study is to report the clinical courses and clinical outcomes of critically ill patients being cared for in the hospital during the study period. There were, therefore, no formal hypotheses being implemented to drive the sample size calculation and we included the maximum number of patients who met the inclusion criteria.
We expressed descriptive data as mean (SD) or median (IQR) for continuous variables and number (%) for categorical variables. We assessed differences between survivors and non-survivors using two-sample t test or Wilcoxon rank-sum test depending on parametric or non-parametric data for continuous variables and Fisher's exact test for categorical variables. We used a Kaplan-Meier plot for survival data.
Tests were two-sided with significance set at α less than 0·05. The Stata/IC 15.1 software (StataCorp, College Station, TX, USA) was applied for all analyses.

Results
By Jan 26, 2020, 710 patients had been admitted to Wuhan Jin Yin-tan hospital with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia, of whom 658 (93%) were considered ineligible, including three patients who had cardiac arrest immediately after admission. 52 (7%) critically ill patients were included in this study (figure 1). All patients were residents of Wuhan City and were transferred from other hospitals. The mean age was 59·7 years (SD 13·3), and 27 (52%) were older than 60 years (table 1). 35 (67%) patients were men. 17 (33%) patients had a history of exposure to the Huanan seafood market, and 10 (19%) had exposure to patients with confirmed or highly suspected SARS-CoV-2 infection. 21 (40%) patients had chronic diseases, including cerebrovascular diseases in seven (13·5%) patients, all of whom died at 28 days. All patients had bilateral infiltrates on chest x-ray.

Discussion
We report on 52 critically ill patients with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, characterised by severe hypoxaemia. 32 (61·5%) of critically ill patients had died at 28 days. Of all included patients, 37 (71%) required mechanical ventilation and 35 (67%) had ARDS.
Since no specialised medication to treat SARS-CoV-2 infection has been identified at this time, the mainstay of treatment has been supportive care. Patients are being treated in isolation, and their close contacts are being quarantined. For non-critically ill patients, close follow-up is likely to be sufficient to manage the disease.
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For critically ill patients, however, aggressive treatments and intensive care are needed. To our knowledge, this is the first study to characterise critically ill patients infected by SARS-CoV-2. In three previously published studies of crtically ill patients, the patient numbers were too small to summarise the characteristics and mortality of these patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia.
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,
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,
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Like SARS-CoV and Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV, SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus that can be transmitted to humans, and these viruses are all related to high mortality in critically ill patients.
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However, the mortality rate in patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection in our cohort is higher than that previously seen in critically ill patients with SARS. In a cohort of 38 critically ill patients with SARS from 13 hospitals in Canada, 29 (76%) patients required mechanical ventilation, 13 (43%) patients had died at 28 days, and six (16%) patients remained on mechanical ventilation.
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17 (38%) of 45 patients and 14 (26%) of 54 patients who were critically ill with SARS infection were also reported to have died at 28 days in a Singapore cohort
13
and a Hong Kong cohort,
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respectively. The mortality rate in our cohort is likely to be higher than that seen in critically ill patients with MERS infection. In a cohort of 12 patients with MERS from two hospitals in Saudi Arabia, seven (58%) patients had died at 90 days.
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Since the follow-up time is shorter in our cohort, we postulate that the mortality rate would be higher after 28 days than that seen in patients with MERS-CoV.
The fundamental pathophysiology of severe viral pneumonia is severe ARDS. Men and people of an older age (>65 years) are more likely to develop ARDS than women or those of a younger age.
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Therefore, it is reasonable that the mortality at 28 days of severe SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia is similar to the mortality of severe ARDS, which is near 50%.
17
With a substantial increase in the number of critically ill patients infected by SARS-CoV-2, more provisional ICUs are being established in Wuhan, China. Qualified specialists are coming to Wuhan from other provinces of China and are currently working in these provisional ICUs, fever clinics, and newly constructed hospitals.
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As the clinical capacity to treat patients improves, the mortality of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia is expected to decrease.
As mentioned in previous studies, nearly 70% of patients infected by SARS-CoV-2 were men.
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The patients are older in our study than in previous studies.
1
,
2
We observed that non-survivors were older than survivors. Based on previous studies, evidence suggests that older, male patients are the most susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection,
2
which is supported by our data. As previously reported, patients with a history of cerebrovascular disease are at increased risk of becoming critically ill or dying if they have SARS-CoV-2 infection.
2
,
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In our cohort, fever is the most common symptom in patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia, which is in accordance with previous studies, but not all patients had fever.
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We also found that fever was not detected at the onset of illness in six (11·5%), and that it was in fact detected 2–8 days later. The delay of fever manifestation hinders early identification of patients infected with SARS-CoV-2—if patients are asymptomatic identification of suspected cases is more difficult.
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,
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The median duration from onset of symptoms to radiological confirmation of pneumonia was 5 (3–7) days, meaning that early or repeated radiological examinations are useful in screening patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia.
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As for laboratory tests, lymphocytopenia occurred in more than 80% of critically ill patients in our cohort. Lymphocytopenia is a prominent feature of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV infection because targeted invasion by SARS-CoV viral particles damages the cytoplasmic component of the lymphocyte and causes its destruction.
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Additionally, lymphocytopenia is also common in the critically ill patients with MERS infection, which is the result of apoptosis of lymphocytes.
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Therefore, we postulate that necrosis or apoptosis of lymphocytes also induces lymphocytopenia in critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection. In a previous study, mainly in non-critical patients infected with SARS-CoV-2, 35% of patients had only mild lymphocytopenia,
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suggesting that the severity of lymphocytopenia reflects the severity of SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Mechanical ventilation is the main supportive treatment for critically ill patients. The PaO2/FiO2 ratio was lower in our patients than in patients admitted to Zhongnan Hospital.
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The substantial difference in PaO2/FiO2 ratio between survivors and non-survivors in our study, indicates this ratio is associated with the severity of illness and thus prognosis. Barotrauma seems less severe in patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection who are being mechanically ventilated than that seen in mechanically ventilated patients with SARS-CoV. In our study, barotrauma occurred in only one (2%) patient, who had been hospitalised for nearly 1 month, and they are currently on a ventilator and receiving ECMO. In patients with SARS, barotrauma occurred in about 25% of patients on mechanical ventilation.
14
The lower occurrence of barotrauma in our cohort is probably related to the widely accepted strategy of protective ventilation in mainland China.
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At the same time, prone position and ECMO have been used to treat patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia.
Without solid evidence, nearly half of the patients were given antiviral agents, and more than half were given intravenous glucocorticoids. Patients treated with lopinavir were from an ongoing clinical trial registered on Chinese Clinical Trial Registry (ChiCTR2000029308). Remdesivir was given to the first patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia in the USA.
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Trials on remdesivir are about to recruit both mild to moderate patients (NCT04252664) and severe patients (NCT04257656) infected with SARS-CoV-2. Although, intravenous glucocorticoids were commonly used in patients with severe SARS or MERS pneumonia, their efficacy remains controversial and their use to treat SARS-CoV-2 infection is also controversial.
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An ongoing clinical trial (NCT04244591) might shed some light on the safety and efficacy of these drugs as treatment.
This study has several limitations. First, only 52 critically ill patients were included. However, the population from which they were sampled was much larger than that of the three studies previously published.
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We included all the critically ill patients being cared for in the ICU of Jin Yin-tan hospital who met the inclusion criteria. Due to the exploratory nature of the study, which was not driven by formal hypotheses, the sample size calculation was waived. Instead, we hope that the findings presented here will encourage a larger cohort study or potentially some randomly controlled trials. Second, some specific information from the ICU was missing, such as mechanical ventilation settings. The data on radiographical examination, supportive treatment, living status, and the duration from ICU admission to death, however, are indisputable. Third, this is a retrospective study. The data in this study permit a preliminary assessment of the clinical course and outcomes of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia. Further studies are still needed.
In conclusion, the mortality of critically ill patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia is high. The survival term of the non-survivors is likely to be within 1–2 weeks after ICU admission. Older patients (>65 years) with comorbidities and ARDS are at increased risk of death. The severity of SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia poses great strain to hospital critical care resources, especially if they are not adequately staffed or resourced.
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Rondaben, I noted this in the the above study:
"Cardiac injury was diagnosed if the serum concentration of hypersensitive cardiac troponin I (hsTNI) was above the upper limit of the reference range (>28 pg/mL), measured in the laboratory of Jin Yin-tan Hospital."

Would you expect this to be due to hypoxia as we had earlier discussed about kidney damage?
 
R

rondaben

Veteran Member
Trivium Pursuit said:
Rondaben, I noted this in the the above study:
"Cardiac injury was diagnosed if the serum concentration of hypersensitive cardiac troponin I (hsTNI) was above the upper limit of the reference range (>28 pg/mL), measured in the laboratory of Jin Yin-tan Hospital."

Would you expect this to be due to hypoxia as we had earlier discussed about kidney damage?
Click to expand...

Most likely. Anything that causes a strain on the heart muscle will eventually lead to cell damage and cell death. As those cells go through apoptosis (breaking down and their cell membranes becoming 'leaky'), Troponin I will begin to leak out. TNI is normally not found in the blood, so detecting it above minimal levels is indicative of heart damage. It is one of the early markers we test for in people with heart attacks and allows us to get a sense of how 'big' the attack was as well.

Patients in ARDS are going to be profoundly hypoxic without support. Now imagine that many of them in their 50's, 60's and older have underlying atherosclerosis/ischemic heart disease. It doesn't take too low of a blood oxygen level to start to cause cardiac damage. I would imagine this is an important mechanism in why older patients and those with chronic illnesses/habits like:

-smoking
-diabetes
-CHF
-COPD
-atherosclerosis

are all going to fair worse than younger patients with a healthier cardiovascular/pulmonary system.
 
W

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
raven said:
It is pretty late in this game. Every city with direct international flights should be treated as if they have it. I do not know them all but a partial list would be NY, LA, SF, Chicago, Atlanta, Seattle, Washington DC, Miami, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio.
You can google population density if you like. I did for LA - twice the density of Wuhan - won't be any stopping it there either.
Click to expand...

If it's hit Tenerife (Canary Islands) with 1000 people quarantined as of right now, it will be everywhere eventually.
 
JMG91

JMG91

Veteran Member
Melodi said:
There are several good explanations for things like this and I tend to settle for two of them:

1. Fiction writers, especially thriller writers have to have imaginations and ask "what if?" The good ones then go do research to see if their plots actually work in the real-world or could work/were likely to happen and in what way. For the last 20 years that might every well lead a writer to a Chinese lab or industrial center to be ground Zero for a pandemic. A natural or man-made one.

2. Writers often get "in the zone" while writing, so yeah sometimes you get books like "The Titan" published 10 years before the Titanic sailed that is about a ship named The Titan that is about the same size as the Titanic, runs into an iceberg and also has a lot of people die from lack of lifeboats.

That may or may not have been a sort of "psychic flash" that the author didn't even know they were doing and/or simply a really good understanding of shipping at the time, the risks and the potential outcomes if you wanted to write a disaster novel.

But yeah, stuff like this does happen, I've lost count of how many inventions Robert Heinline put in his books and have since become reality in our daily lives.
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The difference with this book is that it was originally--in 1981--written about the Russians. Then, in 1996, Koontz re-published the book, and put the Wuhan-400 stuff in there, and made the premise about the Chinese. Why? I still wonder about this. I checked out the book myself, just to confirm it, and it's really in there, too.
 
bbbuddy

bbbuddy

DEPLORABLE ME
Countrymouse said:
So every time I post, I have to leave the thread totally and then come back in and re-open it (and TRY to find my place) to see my post in its correct place?

I hope this is just a glitch and will be fixed soon---the other site didn't do this and it's maddening. It's like posts keep "moving" around on the thread and I never am sure which page I'm on.
Click to expand...
When you first post, you will see your post/reply at the bottom of the page you are on. If you go to thre next page, your post/ reply shows up at the end of the thread, just like it always did. If you want to find the last place in a thread that you read, just reopen the thread and it goes there, like Kindle does... it remembers where you were.
 
Blizzard

Blizzard

Senior Member
marsh said:
A question for our medical types - with washing my hands so frequently, they have become very dry. If I use lotion on them, won't that defeat the purpose of washing them and attract picking up the virus? What do professionals use to keep skin from drying out?
Click to expand...

During work I use an alcohol based hand cleaner with Aloe. The dispensers are positioned at the entrance inside each room and in my office. After seeing the patient, I hit the button as I leave the room. Yes, my hands get dry and chapped with repeated hand washing. When I retire for the day, I hit the Vaseline Intensive Care hand lotion just before I go to sleep. Keep it on all night long. In winter, my skin dries out extensively due to hot showers. After I get out, shave, etc., I use the moisturizer on my lower body and the extra goes to my hands and arms.

For really bad chapped hands, I fill a pair of exam gloves with several squirts of Vasoline Intensive Care lotion and wear them while I sleep. My hands are slimy when I wake up and remove the gloves, but the excess is easily washed and the irritated, chapped skin is resolved.
 
Tristan

Tristan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
pops88 said:
Wonder if any of them were tested for Corona considering we're a tourist and convention town.

"Five more flu deaths were reported to the Southern Nevada Health District last week, bringing the total to 31 flu-related deaths this season.

SNHD released the report from Feb. 9-15. "


www.fox5vegas.com

Health District reports 31 total flu deaths so far in Clark County

Five more flu deaths were reported to the Southern Nevada Health District last week, bringing the total to 31 flu-related deaths this season.
www.fox5vegas.com www.fox5vegas.com
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I doubt it, because once they start looking, they'll start finding, I bet...
 
Freeholder

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
This may or may not be helpful wrt dry hands.... I used to have real trouble with dry skin. Not just hands, but chapped lips and dry, itchy skin all over. I noticed after DD and I had been on the auto-immune protocol diet (AIP) for a while that my skin wasn’t dry and itchy anymore, and I was no longer using chapsticks, which I used to go through pretty quickly. Attempts to reintroduce different foods have shown that the dietary culprit for me is grains. If you are constantly washing, your results might not be quite as good (though when we started on AIP, I was still milking goats twice a day, and washing all our dishes by hand, so I did have my hands in hot water a lot), but especially if you get to the point where you have bleeding cracks in your hands, this is something else you could try to see if it would help. I see results within a week or two.

Kathleen
 
N

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Holger Zschaepitz‏ @Schuldensuehner 13m13 minutes ago

Oops! 10y US Treasury yield drops to record low of 1.32% as coronavirus fears rise https://cnb.cx/32xtvze

ERoia6dWkAYj1bG
 
vector7

vector7

Dot Collector
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goosebeans

goosebeans

Veteran Member
rondaben said:
This "church" doesn't believe Jesus is God. It believes their 80+ year old pedophile leader supercedes Jesus, and that we are all living in the afterlife. After 144,000 "true believers" are here, the "holy spirit"---that they believe is a gang of angels---will "posess" the church and usher in a new heaven and earth.
Click to expand...

My first thought, when I read of so many people in one congregation picking up this virus was "what the heck were they doing, having an orgy?" Now, upon learning more, it really wouldn't surprise me at all!
 
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Jubilee on Earth

Jubilee on Earth

Veteran Member
It's posts like this that make it clear that money is the number one driver for everything that happens globally. This event typically draws about 25,000 attendees from over 130 different countries each year. Although for the health and safety of people around the globe it would be prudent to cancel or postpone it, they cannot. The loss would be too great.

7FE2AA1E-3C20-4904-81A9-0A822B2B5358.jpeg
 
Trivium Pursuit

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Ragnarok said:
Actually I think they were yelling/singing songs to encourage each other...

Wuhan residents chant ‘Keep it up, Wuhan’ out of their windows to boost morale
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_PSSTP8ROg


Wuhan residents chant "Jiayou" for city to persist in face of adversity
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUa3WkStFg


Coronavirus Wuhan residents shout from windows in solidarity
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEcZ7EmUk8


People Shouting "Wuhan Add Oil" & Singing National Anthem
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apoCDUd0Qrg


Wuhan residents chant "Wuhan, stay strong" and sing patriotic songs through their windows
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP4hZ5qj6Yw
Click to expand...
Even movies have never had scenes like this. With the possible exception of Network, kind of. I wonder what the Chinese translation of "I'm mad as h***, and I'm not going to take it anymore!' is. Might be that woman in the funeral home who was called by the investigative reporter...
 
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