CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

Scarletbreasted

Galloping geriatric
Observations on DJ's speech:

1. He looked uncomfortable speaking semi extemporaneously, and with no Teleprompter, which meant he had to refer to notes, hence interruptions to the flow! (ANYONE whom has done public speaking will realise this!)

2. I doubt after the last 48 hrs that he has been through, if anyone could remain "smooth" after having criss-crossed through several time zones, going to and coming back from India! (Jet lag is a bitch no matter how comfortable your travel conditions are.

3. I suspect he had only been given his notes in draft form a few hours before. (NOT a speech written by a speech writer).

I think he did a fair job, under unfair conditions, and, if I was a voter in the USA, he would definately still get my vote!!

I say this based on his proven performance since his election, not a few minutes of a poorly prepared public talking!

sb (In Australia)
 

Ping Jockey

Inactive
Surprised by the number of people who think Trump doesn't have a clue. Have you ever been around high level political people? Think he's unaware of sat. pictures or what's happening on the ground in China? Think he hasn't talked to foreign leaders about this? We're pretty arrogant if we think we have a better handle on the situation than he does. I'm sure that right now he understands what a disaster it would be if people panicked. The socioeconomic consequences could be massively worse than the virus. He doesn't want the country to descend into chaos. He's a bad liar, btw. I think the purpose of the speech was to reassure people that there are plans in place and they aren't just sitting on their hands.
Absolutely, agree with everything stated above. Given all the man has been through for the past 4+ years I would hazard a guess that most people, and I include myself in this category, would be a bunch of blithering idiots. Now he’s having to balance spreading the word out about a possible world altering event and not panicking the populace into open madness and anarchy. Too, everywhere he turns in DC there are those sniping at him at every turn. Hell, the man could cure cancer and the orcs will be bitching about putting doctors out of business.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
If nothing is done about the $3500.00 price tag on the COVID-19 test, I don't see many folks opting to get tested...

If they don't want to test people because they don't want to have to report how many cases there really are, then charging people $3500 is a great way to stop them from going for the test... :shk:

There are two approaches the gov't can take:

1. Tell the truth and deal with the disease and the panic

2. Lie and not have to deal with the panic, and deal with the disease by trying to absorb as many cases into the 'flu' designation when reporting on them.

If we have a true epidemic in this country, they'll have to go back to number 1. If so far we have less than 1000 cases and less than 100 deaths (pulling those numbers out of thin air to make a point) - then option 2 is the better one. I think that's where we are at. But it frustrates me no end to see Trump looking so incompetent and yes, stupid, when he addresses the nation. (and I do not believe for one second that the man is stupid...) VP Pence looked more presidential than him by a mile. Of course Pence is a polished politician whose been doing this for decades. But it was really disheartening to watch that press conference. He should've rested up from his trip before addressing the nation. The stock market must really have him spooked...

HD
 
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Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
By Oct

By October 2016, I lost confidence in Trump for some of the very reasons you note. Now it should be noted that his gut instinct is the best I have ever seen. And he has been incredibly lucky, I really did not think he would get this far. But sooner or later, both will fail and we may be seeing it. If the Demos pick Bernie and disaster occurs, I give him a pretty good chance to win the POTUS. Because he will have a program that desperate people will buy into. As I have ranted many times, when times get desperate, the people turn Left.

Spot on, IMHO...

The average American voter has a 10 second attention span...

*IF* this really takes off, the economy tanks, and nothing is done to help people with healthcare costs that contract it ( I couldn't believe the guy who was charged almost 4 grand for a negative test )... Yes.

This virus COULD see America voting in a socialist government.

Tucker Carlson explained it on Monday's show but, of course, the clip has been pulled down by Youtube
 

poppy

Veteran Member
Saw on the news earlier that China is saying the number of new infections has peaked and started to decline. I don't really trust them but it is good news if true. Could be the Chinese have seen it is real and started taking common sense precautions.
 
You and I may get coronavirus - and live with it: here's how to prepare for a pandemic

You and I may get coronavirus - and live with it: here's how to prepare for a pandemic
By Ian Mackay
February 27, 2020 — 12.00am

It’s impossible to avoid news about the impact of the clumsily named severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2).

The illness it causes, coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is on every news and social media platform in a hyperlinked world. In China, the spread of SARS-CoV-2 from each infected person to about three new people launched an epidemic across a nation of modern megacities.


[IMG alt="Tourists wearing face masks at the Trevi Fountain in Rome this week amid the spread of the virus in Italy.
"]https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_...c5137345e4d815e0e6dbf2847793e4c3d9e3c42[/IMG]
Tourists wearing face masks at the Trevi Fountain in Rome this week amid the spread of the virus in Italy. Credit:Bloomberg


From there it hitched a ride in infected travellers to more than 30 other regions. It's spreading quickly because no one has any immunity to this new and distinct virus.

Some nations, such as Singapore, have valiantly limited the spread while others, such as Korea, Italy and Japan, have seen rapidly rising COVID-19 cases.

Of concern to the Middle East was the unseen spread in Iran, first identified through deaths. Because death lags illness onset by weeks and represents only a small portion of all SARS-CoV-2 infections, there are likely many cases already there.

The virus is so globally widespread that it’s unlikely we’ll ever see it eradicated. The SARS virus in 2002-04 was different; it spread and shed differently and so good public health measures contained it. But SARS-CoV-2 may be with us for good – a new addition to the rogue's gallery of four human coronaviruses we live with all the time. At some point you and I will likely be infected by SARS-CoV-2. But the important point is that we can live with it.

Australia has done well. Since February, 15 expertly managed COVID-19 cases and 30,000 self-isolated people have resulted in no outbreaks or spread, and no deaths.

However, we’re suffering a daily economic impact on our tourism, education and export sectors and this may not be sustainable for much longer. At some point, travel will resume, and we should expect new COVID-19 cases. This is inevitable.



http://xf.timebomb2000.com/xf/javascript:void(0);
Professor Kanta Subbarao, Director of the WHO Collaborating Centre for Reference and Research on Influenza explains what we do and don't know about the 2019 Novel Coronavirus.




The discussion should turn to the use of a perfectly normal English-language word: pandemic. That needs to be done with care, subtlety and extra words. But the word pandemic doesn’t change anything about the virus already with us. Its nature, spread, genetic sequence and its human impact remain unchanged by saying it is about to cause a pandemic. But because of the way the word has been previously used, or rather not used, it is held in fearful regard.
Whether we call what likely will come next an “epidemic in many countries”, a “multi-country outbreak” or a pandemic doesn’t change what it will be. So instead of holding certain terms in reserve, let's define and use them early on.


For now, the world is still in containment mode, but many countries are deep in preparations for when the virus breaks containment and spreads widely. Slowing the spread so far has been mostly because of China’s extreme and large-scale quarantine. It limited movement of well, but possibly exposed, people. It isolated ill people from the well. And it imposed social-distancing measures, closing mass transit, keeping people home, delaying the return to work after the Lunar New Year break. That has bought us the time to prepare.

However, right now, it's spreading quickly because no one has any immunity to this new and distinct virus. That will change once more people are infected or, in the future, vaccinated. Immunity will protect us from future severe disease.


We have seen that severe disease and death do occur, but we also know little about the extent of mild and moderate COVID-19 illness – the kind that don’t put us in hospital. Cases outside China have a pattern that suggests a milder spectrum of outcomes and a lower proportion of death. If we imagine a submerged iceberg represents all the COVID-19 cases, the bit we see most of – the severe disease above the waterline – is only a fraction of the outcomes. It’s the size of what lies beneath that we’re still unsure of. Because China focused intently on pneumonia, what we’ve seen thus far may overstate the severity of COVID-19.

In Australia, it's time for individuals to plan before we have more cases arrive. While not guaranteed, it's likely. Think more hand-washing and less face-touching. Discuss working from home. Stay clear of obviously sick people. All good advice during flu season, too.

Talk to doctors about extra prescriptions if needed. Get a box, label it “pandemic stuff” and each grocery shop for the next few weeks, buy an extra couple of things such as toilet paper, cleaning and feminine hygiene products, pet food, dried foods and cans that will last but still get eaten if this is all a flash in the pan. This is just in case of interruptions to supply. Truck drivers and their families get sick, too.

But do not panic-buy. And do not panic otherwise. Prepare, but do not panic. It’s OK to feel anxious, but don’t act without thinking. Be a calm voice for others. Listen to the public health authorities. They will hopefully better communicate specifics about what we are likely to face and more that we can do, as individuals.

A pandemic is coming,
but we managed the swine flu pandemic in 2009. We got through it as a community relying on science, knowledge and communication, and we can do that again. Words convey knowledge and knowledge is both powerful and comforting. Let’s not get caught by surprise. Let's keep talking about this, working together and supporting each other to be as ready as we can possibly be.

Ian Mackay is a virologist and associate professor at the University of Queensland.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Since several active cases have been in Santa Clara, could they do some robot retrofits to serve some of these infective situations? Could they telemed with patients on some things outside the room? Bring them comfort items like food in intermediate care to lessen medical personnel exposure and risk?
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Sort of like chicken pox/shingles or either of the herpes viruses.

HD

Exactly... Now, I thought this was debunked but it is resurfacing, again, with new data... It may have been correct, all along.






Scientists Discover HIV-Like "Mutation" Which Makes Coronavirus Extremely Infectious
https://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden
Wed, 02/26/2020 - 19:45

While mainstream scientists continue to perform mental gymnastics to insist that the new coronavirus wasn't man-made, new research from scientists in China and Europe reveal that the disease happens to have an 'HIV-like mutation' which allows it to bind with human cells up to 1,000 times stronger than the Sars virus, according to SCMP.



Recall that at the end of January, a team of Indian scientists wrote in a now-retracted, scandalous paper claiming that the coronavirus may have been genetically engineered to incorporate parts of the HIV genome, writing "This uncanny similarity of novel inserts in the 2019- nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature," meaning - it was unlikely to have occurred naturally.

Fast forward to new research by a team from Nankai University, which writes that COV-19 has an 'HIV-like mutation' that allows it to quickly enter the human body by binding with a receptor called ACE2 on a cell membrane.


Other highly contagious viruses, including HIV and Ebola, target an enzyme called furin, which works as a protein activator in the human body. Many proteins are inactive or dormant when they are produced and have to be “cut” at specific points to activate their various functions.
When looking at the genome sequence of the new coronavirus, Professor Ruan Jishou and his team at Nankai University in Tianjin found a section of mutated genes that did not exist in Sars, but were similar to those found in HIV and Ebola.
-SCMP

"This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV [the new coronavirus] may be significantly different from the Sars coronavirus in the infection pathway," reads the paper published this month on Chinaxiv.org - a platform used by the Chinese Academy of Sciences which releases research papers prior to peer-review.

"This virus may use the packing mechanisms of other viruses such as HIV," they added.

For those confused, what the latest scientific paper claims is that whereas the Coronavirus may indeed contain a specific HIV-like feature that makes it extremely infectious, that was the result of a rather bizarre "mutation." However, since the scientists did not make the scandalous claim that Chinese scientists had created an airborne version of HIV, but instead blamed a mutation, they will likely not be forced to retract it, even if it the odds of such a "random" mutation taking place naturally are extremely small.

As a reminder, the running narrative is that the new coronavirus lie dormant in bats somewhere between 20 and 70 years, then 'crossed over' to humans through and unknown species - possibly a Pangolin - before it emerged at a Wuhan, China meat market roughly 900 feet from a level-4 bioweapons lab.

And what were they researching at said lab? Among other things - why Ebola and HIV can lie dormant in bats without causing diseases.

According to the new study, the 'mutation' can generate a structure known as a cleavage site in the new coronavirus' spike protein, SCMP reports. "Compared to the Sars’ way of entry, this binding method is “100 to 1,000 times” as efficient, according to the study."
The virus uses the outreaching spike protein to hook on to the host cell, but normally this protein is inactive. The cleavage site structure’s job is to cheat the human furin protein, so it will cut and activate the spike protein and cause a “direct fusion” of the viral and cellular membranes. -SCMP
(a recent paper published by Dr. Zhou Peng of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, meanwhile, is "Immunogenicity of the spike glycoprotein of Bat SARS-like coronavirus.")

According to the report, a follow-up study from a Huazhong University of Science and Technology in Wuhn confirmed Nankai University's findings.
The mutation could not be found in Sars, Mers or Bat-CoVRaTG13, a bat coronavirus that was considered the original source of the new coronavirus with 96 per cent similarity in genes, it said.
This could be “the reason why SARS-CoV-2 is more infectious than other coronaviruses”, Li wrote in a paper released on Chinarxiv on Sunday.
Meanwhile, a study by French scientist Etienne Decroly at Aix-Marseille University, which was published in the scientific journal Antiviral Research on February 10, also found a “furin-like cleavage site” that is absent in similar coronaviruses.
Chinese scientists speculate that drugs targeting the fuirn enzyme could potentially hinder the virus' replication inside the human body. Drugs up for consideration include "a series of HIV-1 therapeutic drugs such as Indinavir, Tenofovir Alafenamide, Tenofovir Disoproxil and Dolutegravir and hepatitis C therapeutic drugs including Boceprevir and Telaprevir," according to Li's study.

The conclusion is in line with several reports from doctors who self-administered HIV drugs after testing positive for coronavirus, however there have been no clinical tests to confirm the theory.

All perfectly "natural."
 

littlechasingbear

2nd gen. prepper
So, question... been thinking about this a good bit. There have been infected people tested and quarantined, and the people they came into contact with are being tested, isolated, all that is great and all.... but did someone go to all the grocery stores and places that the original infected person went to (before becoming symptomatic) and disinfected every store, and every item he touched????

Food for scary thought.
 

Pinecone

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I will repeat myself here. We live in a valley about 200 miles long, with four or five larger universities and several smaller ones. Lots of Chinese students.

These students would have returned from Christmas break when the WuFlu was blowing up. There has been no news locally of terrible illnesses, nor in the media throughout the valley. I noticed the flu was falling in numbers, had a couple bumps up, but continues to fall overall when looking at the flu map info for this area.

I do believe there will be pockets of people infected and maybe H-H-H transmission in the US, but for now, it's been long enough that I think we would have noticed more "flu" numbers and heard of higher numbers of deaths than usual. We aren't the only place where university students returned en masse here in the US.

Are we out of the woods? Probably not, but I can see the sunlight shining onto the meadow in the distance.
 

1911user

Veteran Member
Saudi Arabia suspends entry for Umrah pilgrimage over coronavirus fears

Saudi Arabia suspends entry for Umrah pilgrimage over coronavirus fears

Updated 3 sec ago
SPA
February 27, 2020 02:02

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia has placed a temporary ban on Umrah pilgrims in an attempt to ensure public safety by preventing the spread of the coronavirus.

Most foreign pilgrims often visit the Prophet’s Mosque in Madinah before or after the completion of their religious duties in Makkah, this has also been halted.

It is one of a number of precautionary restrictions announced early on Thursday as health authorities in the Kingdom closely monitor the spread of the virus. Tourist-visa holders from countries judged to pose a particularly high risk of spreading the virus will also be denied entry.

In addition, Saudi nationals and citizens of Gulf Cooperation Council nations will not be able to use a national identity card to travel to and from the Kingdom for the time being. Exceptions to this shall be granted to Saudis returning home, and citizens of GCC countries who are in the Kingdom and want to return to their home countries, provided that they left or entered the Kingdom using a national identity card.

Health authorities at entry points will verify which countries travelers visited before arriving in Saudi Arabia and apply all necessary precautionary measures.

Saudi officials stressed that the restrictions are temporary and will be continuously reviewed by the health authorities. They reiterated the Kingdom’s support for and implementation of international efforts to limit the spread of the virus, and the Foreign Ministry urged citizens not to travel to the countries worst affected by the coronavirus.

Nearly 7 million Umrah pilgrims visit the Kingdom each year, the majority of whom arrive at airports in Jeddah and Madinah.

Earlier, it emerged that seven Saudis are among the latest coronavirus cases in Bahrain and Kuwait. The Bahraini Ministry of Health on Wednesday said six Saudi women has tested positive for the virus. They had arrived at Bahrain International Airport on a flight from Iran. The total number of confirmed cases in the country stands at 26. Studies at schools and universities have been suspended for two weeks in an effort to limit the spread of the virus.

Kuwait announced the first case of a Saudi citizen infected by the virus. The man, who had arrived in the country from the Iranian city of Mashhad, has been placed in quarantine for 14 days. There have been 26 confirmed cases of the virus to date in Kuwait.

The Saudi Ministry of Health has been providing neighboring Arab countries with advice and guidelines for controlling infectious diseases such as the coronavirus and dealing with health emergencies.

Dr. Hani bin Abdul Aziz Jokhdar, the deputy minister of public health, said that the guidelines were based on Saudi Arabia’s experience of protecting the health and well-being of pilgrims during Hajj season.

He led the Kingdom’s delegation at a meeting of the Executive Office of the Council of Arab Ministers for Health on Wednesday at the Arab League headquarters in Cairo.
 
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Squid

Veteran Member
We have strengths and weaknesses China doesn’t have.

Can you picture a van rolling up and forcing American’s into the van against their will? They would need more than county health workers.

How about boarding up doors to force quarantine?

And yet China can mostly lock down a city because they have both the built up high tech police state infrastructure and a passive unarmed populace that is brought up to follow state demands.

We don’t have the same density of population. A denser population lends itself to quicker and more complete transmission.

The Chinese have a greater trust in folk or Chinese medicine while we are generally all western. Initial attempts at using herbal remedies or tea’s may not work on this virus. I don’t think we know what are the best treatment or drug cocktails to use we will probably be able to use South Korea and Japan for what they have found (if we are smart).

Be smart and be safe and remember nobody has the answers on this one.
 

Krayola

Veteran Member
Regarding the newly infected person in California, the one with no travel history and no (known) close contact with an infected person: Why did he/she get tested?

I thought TPTB were only testing people with travel history or known exposure? Does this mean that the testing parameters have changed and they are now testing people based upon symptoms?
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
As has been noted, Trump was really off tonight. Did you notice how often he shrugged his shoulders? This is very telling body language.

One source says it means either you are sorry (Trump is never that), apathetic, or lying.

We all picked up on it tonight. Our intuitive senses were ringing loudly.

Here is the link if you're interested:Body language
 

rondaben

Veteran Member
Regarding the newly infected person in California, the one with no travel history and no (known) close contact with an infected person: Why did he/she get tested?

I thought TPTB were only testing people with travel history or known exposure? Does this mean that the testing parameters have changed and they are now testing people based upon symptoms?
Attach files
Considering that Travis AFB (a quarantine site) is in the same county, i would bet that they have a good idea that it came from one of the "you are clean" diamond princess passengers they released.

But that they have leaky quarantine would be scary.
 
I just can not keep up with this thread.

And this thread IS the digest version of all the news out there :D. Anyone who can keep up with this thread has no life, and I say that as a person who has no life.

Another vote from me for Chris Martenson as the best sole source overview out there so far.

ETA - and DJT has punted to VP Pence on this problem.
Every morning I start reading this thread. By the time I get caught up it’s time for lunch.
 

Jubilee on Earth

Veteran Member
Damn! That is the best news I have read in a long time. Our culture has absorbed 1000's of cases without blinking an eye. Tremendous! By the way, I sell bridges. Got some good prospects coming up. Some with barricades, others without.

There’s no need to get so sarcastic. It’s absolutely plausible. I did a quick 2 minute search on recent obituaries, and several popped up. I took screen shots of a couple of them. Tell me, is it normal for people who aren’t very young or very old to be dying from flu or pneumonia? What about this Asian student from New York?? No chance at all that could’ve been COVID-19, right?

AADCDA1E-7256-4C68-8E37-FBFE06B7789D.jpeg

66999836-C2CA-49B7-ABB2-60DC04F27E47.jpeg

7782C4BF-B29E-47F1-96B0-AEADCAA83B48.jpeg
 

Martinhouse

Deceased
This seems a little off topic at this stage of things, but I just read chapter 39 of Koontz's Eyes of Darkness. My book is a 1981 Pocketbooks issue and the virus mentioned in it is called Gorki-400 which was brought to the U.S. by a Russian defector and escaped the lab here on a panicked lab worker who'd had an accident. There was no mention of the Wuhan bio-lab in this copy of the book, which, by the way, was issued with the author being Leigh Nichols, one of Koonts' early pen names.
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Exactly... Now, I thought this was debunked but it is resurfacing, again, with new data... It may have been correct, all along.






Scientists Discover HIV-Like "Mutation" Which Makes Coronavirus Extremely Infectious
Tyler Durden | Zero Hedge
Wed, 02/26/2020 - 19:45

While mainstream scientists continue to perform mental gymnastics to insist that the new coronavirus wasn't man-made, new research from scientists in China and Europe reveal that the disease happens to have an 'HIV-like mutation' which allows it to bind with human cells up to 1,000 times stronger than the Sars virus, according to SCMP.



Recall that at the end of January, a team of Indian scientists wrote in a now-retracted, scandalous paper claiming that the coronavirus may have been genetically engineered to incorporate parts of the HIV genome, writing "This uncanny similarity of novel inserts in the 2019- nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature," meaning - it was unlikely to have occurred naturally.

Fast forward to new research by a team from Nankai University, which writes that COV-19 has an 'HIV-like mutation' that allows it to quickly enter the human body by binding with a receptor called ACE2 on a cell membrane.





"This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV [the new coronavirus] may be significantly different from the Sars coronavirus in the infection pathway," reads the paper published this month on Chinaxiv.org - a platform used by the Chinese Academy of Sciences which releases research papers prior to peer-review.

"This virus may use the packing mechanisms of other viruses such as HIV," they added.

For those confused, what the latest scientific paper claims is that whereas the Coronavirus may indeed contain a specific HIV-like feature that makes it extremely infectious, that was the result of a rather bizarre "mutation." However, since the scientists did not make the scandalous claim that Chinese scientists had created an airborne version of HIV, but instead blamed a mutation, they will likely not be forced to retract it, even if it the odds of such a "random" mutation taking place naturally are extremely small.

As a reminder, the running narrative is that the new coronavirus lie dormant in bats somewhere between 20 and 70 years, then 'crossed over' to humans through and unknown species - possibly a Pangolin - before it emerged at a Wuhan, China meat market roughly 900 feet from a level-4 bioweapons lab.

And what were they researching at said lab? Among other things - why Ebola and HIV can lie dormant in bats without causing diseases.

According to the new study, the 'mutation' can generate a structure known as a cleavage site in the new coronavirus' spike protein, SCMP reports. "Compared to the Sars’ way of entry, this binding method is “100 to 1,000 times” as efficient, according to the study."

(a recent paper published by Dr. Zhou Peng of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, meanwhile, is "Immunogenicity of the spike glycoprotein of Bat SARS-like coronavirus.")

According to the report, a follow-up study from a Huazhong University of Science and Technology in Wuhn confirmed Nankai University's findings.



Chinese scientists speculate that drugs targeting the fuirn enzyme could potentially hinder the virus' replication inside the human body. Drugs up for consideration include "a series of HIV-1 therapeutic drugs such as Indinavir, Tenofovir Alafenamide, Tenofovir Disoproxil and Dolutegravir and hepatitis C therapeutic drugs including Boceprevir and Telaprevir," according to Li's study.

The conclusion is in line with several reports from doctors who self-administered HIV drugs after testing positive for coronavirus, however there have been no clinical tests to confirm the theory.

All perfectly "natural."
Or it is one more attempt to take the blame off a bio weapons program, whether it be ours or there's....... There was an article that stated the odds of this happening naturally where off the charts. I tend to think it is man caused.

I'd like a real death count. That is the missing piece that would determine the future we have coming... or at least a reasonable starting point. As we know, you do not close down China and the world over three thousand deaths.

The stories of cremated bodies, 40 additional furnaces, the video's of bodies laying around, people falling dead, the screaming and wailing, the police forceably removing people, and on and on tend to suggest very high numbers.

What do our satellites and intel people know? What's the numbers.

As to the comments on this can be a controllable pandemic, one can not ignore the economic damage, the issues sorrounding medications, the homeless camps in every large city and so on. The dominoes will be as or more significant to a whole lot of folks than the virus. But we will all likely know someone who gets real sick and or dies. If not many folks. I'm finding myself pessamistic in regards to a good ending here, considering China.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Missed this when it came out, have not seen it posted.
==================


When Will We Admit Covid-19 Is Unstoppable and Global Depression Is Inevitable?

February 23, 2020
Given the exquisite precariousness of the global financial system and economy, hopes for a brief and mild downturn are wildly unrealistic.


If we asked a panel of epidemiologists to imagine a virus optimized for rapid spread globally and high lethality, they'd likely include these characteristics:
1. Highly contagious, with an R0 of 3 or higher.
2. A novel virus, so there's no immunity via previous exposure.
3. Those carrying the pathogen can infect others while asymptomatic, i.e. having no symptoms, for a prolonged period of time, i.e. 14 to 24 days.
4. Some carriers never become ill and so they have no idea they are infecting others.
5. The virus is extremely lethal to vulnerable subpopulations but not so lethal to the entire populace that it kills its hosts before they can transmit the virus to others.
6. The virus can be spread by multiple pathways, including aerosols (droplets from sneezing/coughing), brief contact (with hotel desk clerks, taxi drivers, etc.) and contact with surfaces (credit cards, faucets, door handles, etc.). Ideally, the virus remains active on surfaces for prolonged periods, i.e. 7+ days.
7. Those infected who recover may catch the virus again, as acquired immunity is not 100%.
8. As a result of this and other features, it's difficult to manufacture a vaccine that will reliably protect against infection.
9. The tests designed to detect the virus are inherently limited, as the virus may be present in tissue that isn't being swabbed.
10. The symptoms of the illness are essentially identical with less contagious and lethal flu types, so people who catch the virus may not know they have the novel pathogen.


As you probably know by now, these are all characteristics of Covid-19, and this is why it is unstoppable. As we now know, millions of people left Wuhan while the epidemic was raging in January, spreading the virus throughout China and the world via hundreds of airline flights to other nations.

As noted here before--no data doesn't mean no virus. Even in the U.S., facilities do not have test kits, for example: No one in Hawaii has been tested for coronavirus as health officials wait for kits from CDC (2/20/20).

The situation in developing nations is similar: few if any test kits, which are not 100% reliable and so multiple tests may be required, and so there is no means to ascertain who is a carrier. No data doesn't mean no virus.

It's impossible to string together a benign narrative that includes these reports:
Virus Kills Chinese Film Director and Family in Wuhan: 4 of 5 family members dead, last survivor in intensive care
Researchers Find 61.5% Of Coronavirus Patients With Severe Pneumonia Won't Survive
Most Patients In South Korean Psychiatric Ward Infected With Coronavirus

If we asked a panel of business executives to imagine a global system optimized for vulnerability to external shocks, they'd likely include these characteristics:
1. Long global suppy chains, four, five and six layers deep, so those in the top layers have no idea where parts and components actually come from.
2. Just-in-time deliveries and limited inventories dependent on complex logistics, so any shock quickly disrupts the entire network as key nodes fail.
3. A global supply chain dependent on hundreds of financially marginal factories and suppliers who do not have the means to pay employees for weeks or months while the factory is idle.
4. A global supply chain dependent on hundreds of financially marginal factories with high debts and expenses that will close down and never re-open.
5. A global consumer economy dependent on the permanent expansion of debt.
6. A global financial system with extremely limited capacity to absorb defaults as suppliers and zombie corporations (i.e. companies dependent on ever-greater borrowing to survive) fail.
7. A global economy burdened with overcapacity.
8. A global economy dependent on "the wealth effect" of rising stock and housing markets to fuel spending, so when these bubbles burst spending evaporates.


These are precisely the characteristics of our precarious global economy, dependent on rising debt, vast speculative bubbles, vulnerable supply chains and marginal consumers and producers.

As noted here before, it doesn't take much to break a system dependent on ever-rising debt and speculation. This chart illustrates the dynamic: when debt loads, speculative bets and expenses are all at nosebleed levels, the slightest decline triggers collapse.

Put another way: the global system has been stripped of redundancy and buffers. A little push is all that's needed to send it over the edge.

rising-wedge.gif
Given the exquisite precariousness of the global financial system and economy, hopes for a brief and mild downturn are wildly unrealistic. The global economy is falling off a cliff, and calling it a "recession" while debt and speculative excesses collapse is a form of denial.

When debt and speculative excesses collapse, it's a depression, not a recession. If we can't call things by their real name then we guarantee a wider, deeper cataclysm.
exponential-virus2-20.png
My COVID-19 Pandemic Posts
 

frazbo

Veteran Member
I found this rather interesting, in light of things .

The National Biodefense Strategy addresses biothreats and bioincidents that have
the potential to cause significant harm (as measured by injury or death, or damage
to property, the environment, or the economy) to the United States or to U.S.
interests; or that otherwise affect U.S. national security.

Dated 9/8/2018. It is 36 pages but very interesting reading. I haven't read it all myself, but seems there's "a plan" in there somewhere and it's starting to make sense but won't finish it until tomorrow...way too late for these old eyes.
It's a PDF file and can't remember where I got the link from but use a search engine for it and it'll be there.

I didn't see the press conference with Trump but heard he put Pence in charge? I think he has enough confidence in him to do that and I'm sure he has the right people working on this and has been aware of this probably since day one. Won't get to watch it until tomorrow morning, as that's my "free time" on the net.

Now if they actually implement the Nat'l Biodefense Strategy, from what I've read so far, then it's a good plan...just have to keep the democrats busy chasing their tails and stay out of the way.
 
Personally, my biggest concern is we have a massive outbreak brewing below the surface,
1,000's of CoronaVirus cases already here, but hidden among the flu stats, so none of them
are being tracked, nor in any quarantine, out freely & actively infecting thousands more...

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
Playing tag team with Doug?
 

mole

Doomer Granny
Perception is everything.

I would not want to be walking in the President's shoes. Bearing the immense burden of having to balance the health & human safety of the population as well as economic stability of the nation - at the same time - knowing full well that a tip in the precarious balance could bring the whole thing down has to be mentally & physically exhausting. I can't imagine living under that kind of stress.

But perception is everything.

Since hearing of the pending presser earlier today, I have been struggling with the feeling that his choice of position - economy/stock market/business over the health of the public - could be a presidency killer.

I don't know who was responsible for preparing the President for tonight, but his persona of being invincible, undefeatable, and competent was severely damaged, imo. The reasons for his performance are moot...most people don't care. The perception was one of uncharacteristic weakness & and it will exact a tremendous price in the minds of many. His loyalty to the markets may be his downfall.

For me, I needed him to look in the camera and in a somber tone, acknowledge the difficulties we are facing and tell us he will keep us informed as the situation(s) develop. But, I'm old, and those are just my expectations of the President.

I pray for our President's health and clarity of mind. I pray for his strength to face the challenges that seem almost insurmountable to me.

And I pray for all of us that we each take the time to decompress & rest as we face & deal with our new realities. It's been 20 years in the makin' and Granny Mole prefers faux doom to the real thing.

Be safe and stay frosty,
~mole:
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Another tweet about the California case:

View attachment 184032

How many here have thought about the "Asian Dust" phenomena that happens early spring quite often with China?
...
Asian Dust (also yellow dust, yellow sand, yellow wind or China dust storms) is a meteorological phenomenon which affects much of East Asia year round but especially during the spring months. The dust originates in China, the deserts of Mongolia, and Kazakhstan where high-speed surface winds and intense dust storms kick up dense clouds of fine, dry soil particles. These clouds are then carried eastward by prevailing winds and pass over China, North and South Korea, and Japan, as well as parts of the Russian Far East. Sometimes, the airborne particulates are carried much further, in significant concentrations which affect air quality as far east as the United States.

Since the turn of the 21st century, coinciding with the rapid industrialization of China, yellow dust has become a serious health problem due to the increase of industrial pollutants contained in the dust. Intensified desertification due to deforestation have been causing longer and more frequent occurrences. And this issue has been exacerbated in the last few decades when the Aral Sea of Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan started drying up due to the diversion of the Amu River and Syr River following a Soviet agricultural program to irrigate Central Asian deserts, mainly for cotton plantations.
...

I remember just a few years back when they had a heavy year of the "Asian Dust" over in China, that California had noticeable amounts of the "fallout" landing in many places there.

Ill winds indeed...

Loup
 

blueinterceptor

Veteran Member
I get this. My basic idea was basic. And could go further. Maybe something along the lines of no bill payments or a six month grace period. I’m sure there are smarter people than me that can work out the finer details.


We had a small business. We could not afford to pay our 40 employees two-three weeks worth of wages without income coming in, even if it came out of our taxes and slim profit margin. Maybe if we didn't have to pay the employer's portion of SS, Medicare, unemployment, worker's comp etc. state and federal taxes we might have squeeked by, but it would have been a very close thing. We would still have owed rent, vehicle leases, equipment leases/loans, several types of insurance, utilities, etc. Quarantine most likely would have bankrupted us. Small business owners do not have deep pockets like large corporations, and most people are employed by small business owners.
 

adgal

Veteran Member
Adgal,
Have you tried growing wheatgrass from your stored wheat? I haven't been able to get 30-year-old wheat (commercially packaged in buckets with a nitrogen flush and kept cool) to sprout. My newer stuff packed with O2 absorbers doesn't do well, either. But the stuff I packed in buckets without O2 absorbers sprouts much better. Anyway, just wondering if you'd had success with older wheat packaged with nitrogen or oxygen.
I just tried growing it from some Walton White Wheat I bought about 10 years ago - it was in a bucket with an O2 absorber and I think only about 1/4 of them sprouted. I have some buckets of "raw wheat" we bought from some local farmers about five years ago - I'm going to try that next. Then, I'm going to try canned wheat that we bought from an LDS Storehouse about six years ago. I want to see what my best bet is before I REALLY need it.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Damn! That is the best news I have read in a long time. Our culture has absorbed 1000's of cases without blinking an eye. Tremendous! By the way, I sell bridges. Got some good prospects coming up. Some with barricades, others without.
How many CoronaVirus casualties could be hidden in flu stat numbers like this...

CDC's flu numbers from October 1, 2019, through February 15, 2020,
show at least 29,000,000 flu illnesses, 280,000 flu hospitalizations, and
at least 16,000 deaths. With little testing for CoronaVirus, it's inevitable
that more than a few of these numbers above aren't seasonal flu, but CV.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!

- Shane
 

Faroe

Un-spun
There’s no need to get so sarcastic. It’s absolutely plausible. I did a quick 2 minute search on recent obituaries, and several popped up. I took screen shots of a couple of them. Tell me, is it normal for people who aren’t very young or very old to be dying from flu or pneumonia? What about this Asian student from New York?? No chance at all that could’ve been COVID-19, right?

View attachment 184034

View attachment 184035

View attachment 184036
Jward, those are spooky!
The 28 year old Asian poly tech student (at the very least) should have been tested.
Prayers for all three.
 

CarolynA

Veteran Member
How many here have thought about the "Asian Dust" phenomena that happens early spring quite often with China?


I remember just a few years back when they had a heavy year of the "Asian Dust" over in China, that California had noticeable amounts of the "fallout" landing in many places there.

Ill winds indeed...

Loup
Thanks a lot for reminding us of that dust from China! Now I'm going to have visions of little viruses riding across the ocean on dust particles. I bet I'm going to have nightmares about mutant dust clouds tonight.
 

goosebeans

Veteran Member
Perception is everything.

I would not want to be walking in the President's shoes. Bearing the immense burden of having to balance the health & human safety of the population as well as economic stability of the nation - at the same time - knowing full well that a tip in the precarious balance could bring the whole thing down has to be mentally & physically exhausting. I can't imagine living under that kind of stress.

But perception is everything.

Since hearing of the pending presser earlier today, I have been struggling with the feeling that his choice of position - economy/stock market/business over the health of the public - could be a presidency killer.

I don't know who was responsible for preparing the President for tonight, but his persona of being invincible, undefeatable, and competent was severely damaged, imo. The reasons for his performance are moot...most people don't care. The perception was one of uncharacteristic weakness & and it will exact a tremendous price in the minds of many. His loyalty to the markets may be his downfall.

For me, I needed him to look in the camera and in a somber tone, acknowledge the difficulties we are facing and tell us he will keep us informed as the situation(s) develop. But, I'm old, and those are just my expectations of the President.

I pray for our President's health and clarity of mind. I pray for his strength to face the challenges that seem almost insurmountable to me.

And I pray for all of us that we each take the time to decompress & rest as we face & deal with our new realities. It's been 20 years in the makin' and Granny Mole prefers faux doom to the real thing.

Be safe and stay frosty,
~mole:

At the very least, they should have waited to have this conference until he'd had a good night's sleep! I think he's been so wrapped up in the India visit, he's completely out of the loop. It didn't sound as if he'd even heard the CDC announcement made yesterday. Azar and the short, gray haired woman were saying one thing and he was saying something entirely different. Pence always appears to be suffering with hemorrhoids but by the look on his face tonight, they were playing up way worse than usual.

I saw Pompeo earlier today. He usually has a smirk on his face, like someone just told him a dirty joke. I've never seen him look so grave as he did this morning.
 
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