After Ruling, Hispanics Flee an Alabama Town

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
By CAMPBELL ROBERTSON
October 3, 2011

ALBERTVILLE, Ala. — The vanishing began Wednesday night, the most frightened families packing up their cars as soon as they heard the news.

They left behind mobile homes, sold fully furnished for a thousand dollars or even less. Or they just closed up and, in a gesture of optimism, left the keys with a neighbor. Dogs were fed one last time; if no home could be found, they were simply unleashed.

Two, 5, 10 years of living here, and then gone in a matter of days, to Tennessee, Illinois, Oregon, Florida, Arkansas, Mexico — who knows? Anywhere but Alabama.

The exodus of Hispanic immigrants began just hours after a federal judge in Birmingham upheld most provisions of the state’s far-reaching immigration enforcement law.

The judge, Sharon Lovelace Blackburn, upheld the parts of the law allowing state and local police to ask for immigration papers during routine traffic stops, rendering most contracts with illegal immigrants unenforceable and requiring schools to ascertain the immigration status of children at registration time.

When Judge Blackburn was finished, Alabama was left with what the governor called “the strongest immigration law in this country.” It went into effect immediately, though her ruling is being appealed by the Justice Department and a coalition of civil rights groups.

In the days since, school superintendents have reassured parents — one even did so on television in Spanish — that nothing had changed for children who were already enrolled. Wary police departments around the state said they were, for now, awaiting instructions on how to carry out the law.

For many immigrants, however, waiting seemed just too dangerous. By Monday afternoon, 123 students had withdrawn from the schools in this small town in the northern hills, leaving behind teary and confused classmates. Scores more were absent. Statewide, 1,988 Hispanic students were absent on Friday, about 5 percent of the entire Hispanic population of the school system.

John Weathers, an Albertville businessman who rents and has sold houses to many Hispanic residents, said his occupancy had suddenly dropped by a quarter and might drop further, depending on what happens in the next week. Two people who had paid off their mortgages called him asking if they could sell back their homes, Mr. Weathers said.

Grocery stores and restaurants were noticeably less busy, which in some cases may be just as well, because some employees stopped showing up. In certain neighborhoods the streets are uncommonly quiet, like the aftermath of some sort of rapture.

Drawn by work in the numerous poultry processing plants, Hispanic immigrants have been coming to Albertville for years, long enough ago that some of the older ones gained amnesty under the immigration law of 1986. But the influx picked up over the last decade, and the signs on Main Street are now mostly bilingual, when they include English at all.

What the new immigration law means on a large scale will become clearest in a place like Albertville, whether it will deliver jobs to citizens and protect taxpayers as promised or whether it will spell economic disaster as opponents fear.

Critics of the law, particularly farmers, contractors and home builders, say the measure has already been devastating, leaving rotting crops in fields and critical shortages of labor. They say that even fully documented Hispanic workers are leaving, an assessment that seems to be borne out in interviews here. The legal status of family members is often mixed — children are often American-born citizens — but the decision whether to stay rests on the weakest link.

Backers of the law acknowledge that it might be disruptive in the short term, but say it will prove effective over time.

“It’s going to take some time for the local labor pool to develop again,” said State Senator Arthur Orr, Republican of Decatur, “but outside labor shouldn’t come in and just beat them every time on cost and put them out of business.”

Mr. Orr said there were already signs that the law was working, pointing out that the work-release center in Decatur, about 50 miles to the northwest, was not so long ago unable to find jobs for inmates with poultry processors or home manufacturers. Since the law was enacted in June, he said, the center has been placing more and more inmates in these jobs, now more than 150 a day.

On Monday morning, one of the poultry processing plants in Albertville had a job fair, attracting an enormous crowd, a mix of Hispanic, black and white job-seekers, lining up outside the plant and down the street.

“This needed to be done years ago,” Shannon Lolling, 36, who has been unemployed for over a year, said of the law.

Mr. Lolling’s problem seemed to be with the system that had brought the illegal-immigrant workers here, not with the workers themselves.

“That’s why our jobs went south to Mexico,” he said. “They pay them less wages and pocket the money, keep us from having jobs.”

Not far from the plant, in the Hispanic neighborhoods, it is hard to differentiate the silence of the workday, the silence of abandonment or the silence of paralyzing fear.

Many Hispanics have chosen to stay for now, saying, with little apparent conviction, that the law will surely be blocked by the president, the judge, “the government.” Until then, they are not leaving their homes unless absolutely necessary. They send others to buy their groceries and tell their children to quit the soccer team and to come home right after school. Rumors of raids and roadblocks are rampant, and though the new law has nothing to say about such things, distrust is primed by anecdotes, like one told by a local Hispanic pastor who said he was pulled over outside Birmingham on Wednesday, within hours of the ruling. His friend who was driving — and who is in the United States illegally — is now in jail on an unrelated misdemeanor charge, the pastor said, adding that while he was let go, a policeman told him he was no longer welcome in Alabama.

“I am afraid to drive to church.,” a 54-year-old poultry plant worker named Candelaria said, adding, “The lady that gives me a ride to work said she is leaving. She said she felt like a prisoner.”

All summer long, Allen Stoner, a lawyer in Decatur, has been helping his Hispanic clients fill out forms appointing friends or family members as guardians of their children, who are in many cases American-born citizens. This way, the children would not be transferred to social services if the parents were arrested and deported.

Much of this was done by the time the judge’s ruling came down, though last week Mr. Stoner’s clients began to contact him immediately to ask what they should be doing. Monday was quiet.

“We had a lot of phone calls Thursday and Friday,” Mr. Stoner said, “but it has plummeted.”

He did not know for sure, but he figured his clients were gone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/u...-an-alabama-town.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all
 

John Wall

Senior Member
Are we supposed to feel sorry for these law breakers? What would happen to me if I illegally entered Mexico, managed to become a non paying parasite of their system, then were caught?

Oops, that can't happen. Mexico would not allow me to sneak in and act as though I belonged there. They would put my butt in jail, then deport me pronto.

Good for Alabama. The other states need to adopt this law.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Outstanding!! Kudo's to this judge and I wish we had a lot more like them. This has nothing to do with being anti-hispanic or any of the racist clap trap the liberals come up with. This has everything to do with rule of law. If you want to come live in this country there is a way to go about doing it. Very lax immigration laws are a slap in the face to those immigrants who followed the rules, did it right and became citizens. If you are unwilling to shoulder the responsibility of becoming a citizen then you shouldn't get any of the benefits either. In this current job market we have citizens today who would be glad to do some of the work that the immigrants have been doing.
 

etc

Inactive
who is going to clean the toilets?
the locals? I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.
if you think now poultry plants will pay 18 bucks per hour instead of min wage, all I have to say is *hysterical laugh*

basically the owners will get fed up with politics and move the whole operation to Mexico.
 

Lilbitsnana

On TB every waking moment
who is going to clean the toilets?
the locals? I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.
if you think now poultry plants will pay 18 bucks per hour instead of min wage, all I have to say is *hysterical laugh*

basically the owners will get fed up with politics and move the whole operation to Mexico.

You're an azz who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Only one of the 5 chicken plants in the area I lives pays anywhere close to minimum. Most of them start around $10 an hour.

And there are whites who work in the plants both in the past and in the present. In the future too if the plants will hire them.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
who is going to clean the toilets?
the locals? I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.
if you think now poultry plants will pay 18 bucks per hour instead of min wage, all I have to say is *hysterical laugh*

basically the owners will get fed up with politics and move the whole operation to Mexico.

don't fret or wet your panties.
once the welfare state collapses, all those parasites now collecting will quickly be hungry enough to apply for any job they can find. and with the mexicans gone, there will be some jobs finally available.
 

willowlady

Veteran Member
I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.

Oh, for God's sake.... use your head, please. Absolutely there will be some things that don't get done so nicely at first. But in a country where a huge number of its citizens are out of work and out of options, menial positions will be filled soon enough. We've got PhD's working at McDonalds and Masters of Whatever making sandwiches... If cleaning toilet are the only jobs around, even us lazy ass, over educated American are going to fill them, sooner or later.
 

Jeff B.

Don’t let the Piss Ants get you down…
What the new immigration law means on a large scale will become clearest in a place like Albertville, whether it will deliver jobs to citizens and protect taxpayers as promised or whether it will spell economic disaster as opponents fear.

Critics of the law, particularly farmers, contractors and home builders, say the measure has already been devastating, leaving rotting crops in fields and critical shortages of labor. They say that even fully documented Hispanic workers are leaving, an assessment that seems to be borne out in interviews here. The legal status of family members is often mixed — children are often American-born citizens — but the decision whether to stay rests on the weakest link.

There's no doubt that for some, this will "spell economic disaster". The ones who have been making a nice living renting crapholes to these people. On a broader basis, as the drain on social services declines, not so much.

As far as the "mixed" legal status, that should be addressed PQD. The MIS-interpretation of the 14th Amendment should have been corrected decades ago. I guess it'll be up to the states to declare their own citizenship status and apply that since the Fed.Gov won't. Make no mistake, we're headed that way as the illegal immigrants wait for Obama and "the government" to save them and the legal residents of a state wait for the gubmint to again step in on the side of NON-CITIZENS.

FYI, if someone wants to immigrate to the United States, that's fine. We should welcome the type (skill) and number of immigrants that WE decide that we need. If you're in that class, great. If not, get a skill and get in line. We cannot have a come one, come all free for all as we have have for the last 30 years. Remember the "amnesty" under Reagan? The "last one"? Sure. Right. More bullcrap fed to the mushrooms. What's so infuriating is that it's not that the Fed.Gov can't do anything about the illegal immigrant issue, it's that they won't and then they make us pay for them.

Just another injustice in a long line of injustices that will need to be corrected when the trash is swept out.

Jeff B.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Are we supposed to feel sorry for these law breakers? What would happen to me if I illegally entered Mexico, managed to become a non paying parasite of their system, then were caught?

Oops, that can't happen. Mexico would not allow me to sneak in and act as though I belonged there. They would put my butt in jail, then deport me pronto.

Good for Alabama. The other states need to adopt this law.
Are you kidding 30 years ago when I legally worked there, they were a pain in the bum about having your papers at all times or you would be arrested. One of our guys left his in his briefcase 20 ft away and it was a 2 hour stand off with the police on whether or not to arrest him. A few hundred later, all was well.

The Mexican police give no #%#$%s about arresting those who are illegal.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
who is going to clean the toilets?
the locals? I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.
if you think now poultry plants will pay 18 bucks per hour instead of min wage, all I have to say is *hysterical laugh*

basically the owners will get fed up with politics and move the whole operation to Mexico.
If they do are we better off?

I do agree with the idea that some have said in the past that our current problems with inflation / dollar devaluation is due to politicians in the past putting off the consequences of over spending by lowering wages through illegal immigration. It kept wages down and also had the effect of squashing wage inflation.

Now?

If this continues, we have seen nothing yet. People will do the job, but wages will rise significantly and when they do, 10% inflation ( official ) will look like the good times.
 

mikeabn

Finally not a lurker!
So long and best wishes as you go back home. You want to come here, do so legally, obey the laws, get a job, pay your taxes and at least TRY to speak English.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
There are a lot of consequences that aren't listed:

There will be fewer "anchor babies" using public school dollars, dollars that aren't paid by their illegal parental units.
There will be less of a drain on public health situations because public hospitals are not allowed to turn people away regardless of their ability to pay or their immigration status.
There will be a change in insurance as there are fewer insurance-less drivers on the road.
Crime will go down. Why? Because illegals bring their problems with them and those communities historically require more "intervention" as a result.


A list of cost per illegal immigrant per state. Interesting when you start adding up the 100's of thousands of illegals in each state. When Florida enacted its recent laws we lost maybe 320,000 illegals and it didn't even make a dent. These were people that technically weren't supposed to be employed anyway and who aren't - due to a lack of social security number - paying taxes which is an additional strain/cost that citizens and legal immigrants have to pick up.
 

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
When the law was first passed, there was a massive exodus. All the industries said the same thing then. Amazingly enough, it wasn't anywhere near as horrid as they predicted.

Slowly the legal ones came back. Over the last couple of years, their illegal relatives joined them. But they've know that this was there. So have the businesses.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I actually liked FJ. He was a liberal you could argue with that actually thought a bit before he emoted. Unusual character even though he knew how to troll a bit.
 

FireDance

TB Fanatic
who is going to clean the toilets?
the locals? I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.
if you think now poultry plants will pay 18 bucks per hour instead of min wage, all I have to say is *hysterical laugh*

basically the owners will get fed up with politics and move the whole operation to Mexico.
Bull. I know plenty of whites who clean toilets and do the other things you mentioned. And then can or otherwise save their production. You’re as full of shit as the retarded government.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
who is going to clean the toilets?
the locals? I don't think so. the very reason Mexicans were brought in was because the natives refused to clean the toilets, pick berries and haul sheet to the dump.
if you think now poultry plants will pay 18 bucks per hour instead of min wage, all I have to say is *hysterical laugh*

basically the owners will get fed up with politics and move the whole operation to Mexico.

I know this is an old thread, but I think it's important to point out that etc and many of the liberal mindset have no idea how economics actually work. I'm going to start with a gold price example, but then return to the employment question.

Many leftists/Keynesian economists claim that we could never go back to a gold standard, in part because "there isn't enough gold." What they fail to realize is that there is always enough gold; it's simply a matter of the correct price. There may not be enough gold at $20/oz, but there would be more than enough gold at $20,000/oz. Leftists in academia and government are always the first to want to install price controls and then wonder why there are shortages! In free markets - which we assuredly don't have in the US - the price of any commodity invariably finds its natural support level.

With regard to labor, etc asked (in part) "who is going to clean the toilets?" That's an easy one and the answer is anyone who is willing to work for the wages offered. If there are no takers for the employer's offered wage, the employer has to keep raising the offered wage until someone accepts his offer. I'll ask members of this board how many of you would be willing to clean toilets for fifty cents an hour? I don't see anyone raising their hands. Hmmm. How many of you would be willing to clean toilets for $10,000 an hour? Suddenly it seems as if the whole board wants that work!

The above is an extreme example, but at some price point (wage) the toilet cleaning job will be filled by willing applicants.

Leftists constantly decry 'greedy employers' who want to offer 'slave wages' but they never seem to notice that greedy employees equally want the highest wages they can find. That's what makes the world go 'round and it always has.

Best
Doc
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Many leftists/Keynesian economists claim that we could never go back to a gold standard, in part because "there isn't enough gold." What they fail to realize is that there is always enough gold; it's simply a matter of the correct price. There may not be enough gold at $20/oz, but there would be more than enough gold at $20,000/oz.
Off topic but.....

Central banks and their gold revaluation accounts. People don't know about it now but they will find out about it after they reset the gold prices. That is a big reason why they have suppressed the prices so much.

 

bracketquant

Veteran Member
I know this is an old thread, but I think it's important to point out that etc and many of the liberal mindset have no idea how economics actually work. I'm going to start with a gold price example, but then return to the employment question.

Many leftists/Keynesian economists claim that we could never go back to a gold standard, in part because "there isn't enough gold." What they fail to realize is that there is always enough gold; it's simply a matter of the correct price. There may not be enough gold at $20/oz, but there would be more than enough gold at $20,000/oz. Leftists in academia and government are always the first to want to install price controls and then wonder why there are shortages! In free markets - which we assuredly don't have in the US - the price of any commodity invariably finds its natural support level.

With regard to labor, etc asked (in part) "who is going to clean the toilets?" That's an easy one and the answer is anyone who is willing to work for the wages offered. If there are no takers for the employer's offered wage, the employer has to keep raising the offered wage until someone accepts his offer. I'll ask members of this board how many of you would be willing to clean toilets for fifty cents an hour? I don't see anyone raising their hands. Hmmm. How many of you would be willing to clean toilets for $10,000 an hour? Suddenly it seems as if the whole board wants that work!

The above is an extreme example, but at some price point (wage) the toilet cleaning job will be filled by willing applicants.

Leftists constantly decry 'greedy employers' who want to offer 'slave wages' but they never seem to notice that greedy employees equally want the highest wages they can find. That's what makes the world go 'round and it always has.

Best
Doc
We could never go back to a gold standard, because gold is not debt.
 

TiredPatriot

Inactive
I wish you all could have seen the nonsense in my city. Our idiot mayor declared "Hispanic Heritage Month" and all of the illegals came crawling out of the woodwork. Cars were decked out in Mexican flags, driving up and down our streets, blowing through stop signs and red lights. The cops did absolutely nothing about it, they didnt want to be seen as racist.

Please...GO BACK TO MEXICO.
 

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
I wish you all could have seen the nonsense in my city. Our idiot mayor declared "Hispanic Heritage Month" and all of the illegals came crawling out of the woodwork. Cars were decked out in Mexican flags, driving up and down our streets, blowing through stop signs and red lights. The cops did absolutely nothing about it, they didnt want to be seen as racist.

Please...GO BACK TO MEXICO.
Same here! I passed many fender benders during that time, and there was always at least 1 vehicle with the Mexican flag!
WTH???
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Same here! I passed many fender benders during that time, and there was always at least 1 vehicle with the Mexican flag!
WTH???
A lot of them don't think the traffic laws apply to them, if they even know them. There are places in Des Moines that I avoid for that reason.
 

feralferret

Veteran Member
I used to work with a lot of LEGAL immigrants form Mexico, Central America, and Africa. The legal ones would turn in any illegal ones in a heartbeat. After going to the time and expense of immigrating the correct way, they had no tolerance for the cheaters.
 
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