Dee,
You made some interesting points I'd like to respond to.
Evening Invar...
While I know that you have always had the best of intentions, it seems that at this juncture you have bought into the lies of the Beast system.
Dee, I don't subscribe to the belief that applies the prophetic symbols of the Beast or the Whore of Revelation to the United States of America.
America is not the scriptural Beast - nor is she the Great Whore. America may be LIKE a Beast and LIKE a whore in many ways both cultural and political - but she is NOT the lamentable creatures of the bible.
(Forgive me for speaking to you in this manner, but I must.)
As you see need, have at. I have a thick skin and don't bruise easy.
Wars today have nothing whatsoever to do with honorable principles and freedom, but rather with greed, power, and acquisition.
That's a rather blanket statement, and while all wars of mankind are the result of avarice, greed, revenge, lust and power - some wars are indeed necessary and the principles of freedom and honor the driving motivation.
Was it right or wrong that we went to war against Nazi Germany and Japan?
WE were attacked in 1941 and our war effort was just and right. The fruits of our victory over both the evil Nazi regime and Imperial Japan have been good and beneficial, not only to us - but our vanquished enemies whom we rebuilt and put on the path to prosperity.
We were attacked on 9-11. In fact, we had been getting attacked by this same Jihadist enemy since at least 1993 with little-to-no retalliation or punishment. Unlike the attack in 1941 - this enemy today has vowed to destroy us by any and all means possible.
As a result, we have a right and a duty to war against Jihadists until they sue for peace on our terms, or we kill them all and erase their ideology from the planet.
9/11 was designed and orchestrated to get people (globally) to think and behave as you do.
Proofs and sources please, not your own opinion on the matter. (Please don't try and use the Bohemian Grove tin foil conspiracy as an irrefutable proof, I'm assuming you're much more intelligent than that).
Unless you're talking Satan - I don't buy into the "manipulation" charge, though I know it fits well into the supposition that America is the beast trying to create the end-time NWO, which as I've said above - I don't subscribe to.
It has been used as a catalyst to empower hatred in this world, and that is never of GOD.
No, it's of men. But since man has decided to go his own way, God is working with our own decision to self-govern ourselves - and He intervenes to ultimately work out His Plan of Salvation for mankind. That Plan requires we learn the physical lesson that man cannot govern himself without God running the show in our lives.
That being said - the Prince and Power of the air is the ruler of this earth right now, and we have to deal with the realities of this present evil world - including the hatred men have for one another. This world operates on the respect of brute force, and God has utilized that reality for his purpose when needed.
Radical Islam has hated America long before we even knew we were a target. Their hatred is bright and fanatical enough for it's adherants to kill themselves while trying to kill as many of us as possilbe, and collapse our economy and way of life so we can be set upon and devoured. That is their stated goal: our complete destruction.
Now we can either kill this enemy, or be defeated by it. We cannot compromise with it, reason with it, make treaties and agreements with it, by it's own leaders' admissions. It must therefore be destroyed - and fought against with extreme predjudice. This is the way of this present evil world, this is the reality God works within.
The only variable I am unsure of is whether Jihadist Islam is the rod of correction God has brought against us to indeed bring America to nothing. Judging by our faltering resolve and warring political factions, I am assuming yes at the moment.
It has been used to turn people one against the other, each believing things of the other that are only true of a few radicals leading the masses, who would happily live in peace if given the chance again.
Wars and rumors of wars dear. Nations shall rise against nations. Been going on with increasing regularity for the last 2,000 years.
That being said, what do you suggest we do? Die and be destroyed in the millions? We tried appeasement and not taking any retalliatory action during the 1990's when they were hitting us left and right. That only emboldened them to greater plans of inflicting mass casualties.
The War ON Terror is not appropriately nor honestly named.
True. It needs to be named the 'War on Jihadist Islam' but political correctness has paralyzed us to define what our enemies truly are because we don't want to 'offend' anyone.
It is a war that BREEDS and FEEDS fear and terrorizes people on ALL sides, and in that it really isn't very different from the wars of the 20th century. It is more realistically a war created FOR the purpose of TERRORIZING people everywhere.
This is why Jihad terrorists USE it. They know they cannot get what they want or achieve our deaths in a conventional war. Look, UNLIKE the wars of the past, this isn't a war for land or regional dominance - this is a war being waged by Islam for the purpose of DESTROYING us and our influence in the world.
This war can never be won.
Not if many more Americans like you believe that. Many Colonists did say the same thing when Massachussetts and Virginia went to war against England.
I would also remind you that with God, ALL THINGS are possible - if He Wills it. But since America has decided to discard God and pay him lip service to obeying His Commandments - it will be no surprise if God witholds his blessings of protection and we are destroyed by our enemies.
In this war everybody loses excepting those who profit from it financially and who are jockeying for positions of power.
So, since you say we cannot win this war - ask yourself: WHO profits from America's destruction and WHO benefits financially? - and you will have the answer of who the true Beast of Revelation is.
We are talking about a handful of people; zealots and world leaders (and those who support them) who have used lies and deceit to manipulate the masses and whip them into the frenzy necessary to give rise to fear and hatred, which always leads to the wars which line the pockets of only a few. They lie, and people die. If the masses could not be persuaded so easily, both zealots and world leaders would soon lose the power to wage unnecessary wars.
Are you suggesting that after 9-11, and what we all witnessed with our own eyes - that this war on Jihadist Islam is uneccessary and only being manipulated to line the pockets of a few????
These are things from "the darkside" Invar, and "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."
Sorry, reality is that if you remain on the track of a speeding train, it will pulverize you. We can do all the wishful thinking we want to and refrain from going down the dark path of warfare, and our enemies will triumph over us and millions of us will die horribly. There are times war is just and right and completely necessary. This is one of those times.
If your home was busted into and a serial rapist was about to have his way with your eight-year-old daughter - do you "give into the dark side" and kill him, or do you give into his desires so you aren't dominated by 'darkness'??
We have a God-given and inalienable right to self-defense. Because of our freedoms, and the fragile rights which give us the ability to worship God as we are led, and serve our countrymen as we need to and live our lives as best we can - it is necessary to destroy the enemies that seek out our destruction where they nest and where they find safe harbor. They are vermin, lethal when in contact with us, and therefore need extermination.
That doesn't sound Godlike with what Churchianity has led it's people to believe, but scripture is quite clear how God wanted a nation of His people to deal with their enemies that came agains them - and it was without question, complete annihilation. You might read again why Saul was diqualified from remaining king of Israel.
I am not only against the Bush administration, but against all human governments when they depart from the Laws of GOD.
Human government's don't KNOW the Laws of God save those of ours and Britain. As a result, our disobedience and betrayal of that sacred trust "will merit even greater punishment than any other nation, and the condemnation of heaven" - to quote James Madison.
I don't know of any earthly government presently adhering to those Laws, therefor I patiently wait and actively pray for HIS Kingdom Rule, and that it come soon.
The human mind is at enmity with God, and is not subject to the Laws of God, nor can it ever be. It will indeed take the strong arm of God to bring peace, but not after mankind unites to fight against God Himself at His Coming.
No doubt YHVH will use this war to further His Purpose as he uses ALL things, bad and good, to that end. (Romans 8:28) This in no way implies that He either approves of or endorses the insanity in which most of the world is presently engaged. (Romans 8:5-8)
It was never God's intent for us to be at war and to hate. But since mankind has chosen for himself his own destiny, God has allowed us to go our own way and He intervenes in the affairs of men and nations as needed to bring all things to fruition. This includes using a nation of His People to defeat evil regimes and safeguard His promises and people.
If you will search your Bible a little more closely, you will see that we (who profess to be followers of Christ) were never called to do battle in the flesh, but rather to engage in spiritual warfare *always.* (Ephesians 6:10-13)
I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree with your conclusion. If Chrisitians were not allowed to battle in the flesh, this nation would have never come into existence, nor would we have prospered as we have.
The only weapons we are authorized to use are "The Sword of the Spirit," which is the Word, and the Truth. Courage is also necessary, and I submit to you that it takes far more courage to love your enemy, than to kill him.
Granted. But remember David was a man after God's own heart, yet he had much blood on his hands from alot of warfare, some of which God ordained and blessed, some of which was David's own doing which was cursed.
It is NOT 'love' to appease those sworn to kill you and ignore their threats until such time as your own countrymen and kin are killed because you did nothing. Sorry, but this kind of mindset is the same kind of insidious misuse of scripture that has convinced entire churches that accomodating sin and not judging wickedness is more righteous than living Isaiah 58:1 - which is how we get Gay bishops and homosexual marriages.
Remember Invar, it is "Love (that) conquers all," not revenge, and not naked aggression.
Depends on how you define "love". Protecting your family and neighbors by killing those that have sworn to murder them in horrific fashion is as much love as praying for those that have no understanding they are puppets of this world's prince.
We live in a real world not governed by God or his Laws. Just because we believe in God's Laws does not mean we ignore how the real world works. We must fight evil in the only language the carnal human mind understands: brute force.
For when you read the scriptures, you find that Christ Himself will establish the Kingdom of God by wiping out and exterminating with brutal force all of those that come against Him when He comes.
That too will be done by the ultimate Author of Love.
Remember the Proverbs; there is a time for peace, and a time for war.
This is one of those times.
)
