Moral Values issue won the election for Bush! Wow

[MrO]

The trouble with an exit poll that offers, as one of a list of motivations, something as nebulous as "moral values" as an option for one's reason for choosing a candidate, is that it doesn't really capture a heck of a lot of information.

To give you a more concrete idea of what I'm saying, I offer this link, where the author cites moral values as a reason for voting for Bush; still they're not traditional, hard conservative Christian moral values:

http://fromasadamerican.blogspot.com/2004/11/how-you-could-have-had-my-vote.html

I would suggest that making a lot out of this "moral values" story is just reading too much into the words. I wish that weren't so, to an extent, because I'd like to believe that everyone more or less thinks like me (I'll leave it for you to guess whether your moral values are the same as mine ), but looking at this objectively - that's what I see...

 

[Trasael Adnepos]

Well, surfer, you can call darkness by the name "light" all you like, but you can't read by it, only the blind from birth can be taught to agree with you, and you will still be hopelessly confused.

No, I simply weary of hostility against righteousness, truth, and morality, Dave, and see an opportunity to confront a few of you with truth you cannot possibly refute regarding absolute standards. There is no going easy in this matter with those who hate the light. It is a flaming sword which divides mens souls, and lays them bare to the light. To quote the Scripture,

"Those who are in darkness hate the light, because their deeds are evil."

I will repeat until you understand this: Don't accuse me of the hostility you have toward truth, morality, and those righteous enough to confront you with it. We have slid far enough into confusion and evil as a Nation, and I want you relativists to at least be honest enough to admit that words have meanings, and that you hate morality and truth; as a means to force you to consider your ways before God. You can't have it both ways, and it ever stirs a hornet's nest of hostility, hatred, and censure among you to air it publicly.

I'm telling you it's time to re-open this Great Debate, and that there is no means of escape except to admit that in your corrupted souls and evil imaginations there is no objective, absolute measure of reality left for you; with that this was very recently a classic definition of madness. I am attempting to reach you for eternity by any and all means possible, as you and each of you in that camp is on the low road to destruction, and I truly care for your souls, as my fellow men, and pray each time a confrontation like this becomes necessary that one and all of you will repent and find Life and Peace.

I don't seek physical confrontation, nor am I for war, but only speak in defense of what is right, and do believe there are such things as heinous moral crimes which ought to be stopped and their perpetrators punished. When I speak, you are for war, because your hearts convict you of the truth, and you do not like to face the fact that you have become evil.

Nor am I above righteous anger at seeing the truth defamed by darkened minds, nor would I ever fail to defend the innocent and helpless against any of you, so help me God.

In accusing me of cowardice for these things, you reveal only your own, for you cannot even stand and face the wretched condition of your own hearts when conviction illuminates them.

I would reach into the sewage filled ditch you wander today or tomorrow and give you a hand up to the Road, but there are places I cannot walk with you - places where God can only penetrate your darkness upon your earnest request; and so you will have to choose whether you are friend or foe.

Tras
________________

"At a time of universal deception, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell

 

[bigwavedave]

No, I simply weary of hostility against righteousness, truth, and morality, Dave, and see an opportunity to confront a few of you with truth you cannot possibly refute regarding absolute standards.

your own words betray you. how sad.

taliban.

 

[Trasael Adnepos]

Dave, if your mind and heart are sufficently depraved to equate the teachings and the absolute standards of Christ Who gave you your very being, your nation and your freedom with "taliban", then, tragically, you have not only made yourself the enemy of the righteous, but are the very worst of your own. You are never beyond His reach, though, if only you will repent of your wickedness and ask His forgiveness. I sincerely pray that might be your case.

Tras

 

[bigwavedave]

you're delusional, tras. what more can i say? you're entitled to your beliefs and opinions and i to mine.

do you understand that you are speaking mumbo-jumbo? why? i don't do that to you.

do you feel morally justified to pass judgment on me? are you without sin? are you righteous, tras, or just another human being on the planet?

you need to get a clue, buy one if needed.

 

[Trasael Adnepos]

I'm speaking quite clearly, Dave, and think you may have either decided to be deliberately obtuse, or else are quite irrational (perhaps involuntarily?) on this particular subject.

There is no mumbo-jumbo here, but only your abject refusal to admit you cannot distort your way out of the FACT that you will not admit of any such thing existing as absolute truth, apparently because that would destroy your vain philosophy and prevent your justifying your sin.

You know very well I make no claim of perfection. The Standard exists to remind all of us of our fallen nature - our "humanity", with our need of The Saviour.
"All have sinned, and have fallen short of the glory of God."
Ad hominem is not about to help your sorry case.

No, you will not escape confronting your own soul by attacking me, for it is you who judge yourself, and that quite harshly, by refusal to simply admit that you will not accept that the word "truth" means that such a thing exists, and that thing may only be defined by a fixed standard. Ask yourself why that should be so difficult for a mind as good as yours to grasp, unless your Enemy is clouding that mind?

If I have misrepresented your position in any way, please enlighten us with your clear and concise statement of what you believe "truth" to be, bearing in mind that if your definition makes "truth" dependent upon anything other than an absolute and fixed standard of measurement, then your definition becomes a contradiction in terms and hence false.

You're at war with yourself before your Creator here, and not with me, Dave. You came wading in here to hurl imprecations and found yourself trapped in your own devices.

Repent or burn.

Tras

 

[bigwavedave]

clearly state what the Absolute Truth IS and i'll have a better answer for you.

if it refers to God and Jesus Christ, i'll stand by remarks that you are delusional.