***MORAL VALUES was the PRIMARY ISSUE***

Rob

Inactive
<B>BB</B>,
I have posted this separately from my reply to you because it raises a completely different moral and spiritual issue. There are more.

You say that no one can go to heaven unless they accept Jesus. Unless they are ‘born again.’

You go into a war and you kill a soldier. A twelve or fifteen your old boy perhaps, who knows?
You have just deprived that individual of the opportunity to accept Jesus. You have just deprived that child of achieving heaven by your own definition.

I think at this point you might want to get the assistance of some intellectuals or scholars to defend your position because you are in dilemmas that you are not resolving. I do not mean this facetiously but you do not appear to have an adequate command of history and you do not seem to have inquired into morality beyond your blind acceptance of your book.
Pontificators labeling ‘evil’ what they do not accept are not scholars or intellectuals and their blanket condemnation, void of reason, resolve nothing. They need not respond.
 

BB

Membership Revoked
BB: Since you call the Bible "your book" I assume that it is not your book and that you are not a Christian. That means you do not have the Holy Spirit and cannot understand spiritual things including the Bible. I doubt we will ever come to an understanding of "just war" if you are not a born-again believer. I don't say this to be mean or unkind. I'm just stating the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Requirement to understanding God, Christ and the Bible.

Rob: Rubbish.
First, you say no one can get to heaven unless they are a born again christian and accept your system. This thinking is not new. Pope Boniface the VIII declared in 1302 his Bull “Unam Sanctam” which said “every human creature was subject to the Roman Pontiff” and there was no salvation outside the Roman Church. Sound familiar? This “closed minded” thinking brought about the ‘Great Schism’.
I don’t have the Holy Spirit? Am I the one supporting killing? Am I the one calling people who disagree with me ‘evil’.


BB: Well Rob, I think this explains everything to anyone still reading this thread. You are not a Christian, not born-again, and devoid of the Holy Spirit. Your mind is darkened without Christ and the Spirit. Forget what the Pope said. Christ said in John 3 unless you are born-again you cannot enter the kingdom of GOD and cannot see it.

Rob: I can’t “understand spiritual things” because I don’t accept your premise of morality and the system you use to defend it. Which brings us to ‘new age’. My thinking is a product of many religions and philosophers. I would never tell anyone that they can’t reach heaven unless they adapt my beliefs but this is what you are saying . As far as the ‘new age’, again maybe you should do some reading. The Buddha and Lao Tse were 500 years before Christ, Plato 400 years. Christianity is the ‘new age’ boy on the block and if we look at 1520 when Pope Leo X excommunicated Martin Luther. The Christians are the baby on the block.
There is no such thing as a “just war”. War is a failure of man to understand what Christ, the Buddha, Krishna and Lao Tse taught. War is a failure of morality and a failure of compassion. Christ didn’t do it and nothing you have shown proves he did.


BB: As Jesus said to the unbelievers in His day, "You are in error, neither knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God." For you, Christ didn't come on the scene until He was born. That is your first error. Your second is that you separate what God has joined together (the OT and the NT), and join that which God HAS separated (state and private rights).

Since out of your own mouth you declare that your wisdom is the product of many religions and philosophers you are not a Christian. And Christ said, "Every plant that is not planted by the Father will be rooted up." That includes this new age 'plant' you have concocted with Christ somehow thrown into the mix.

You state, "Christians are the baby on the block". You fail to understand that God has ALWAYS had a faithful remnant that began long before Buddha and Krishna. It is you who needs to go back and study history beginning with Genesis. To make Christ like these men is indeed new age and in error, not according to me, but Christ Himself, Who said, "No man can come to the Father except through Me." Christ is God. The only way to the Father is through Him.

Rob, I hate war as much as you do. The reason it exists is because there are devils in this world and unregenerate human beings. Jesus taught there will always be wars (see Matthew 24). The US didn't start ww1 and ww2 and neither did it start VN or this war on terror. Imagine what the world would look like without the US military in the last century. Imagine what it would look like today if the US suddenly laid down all its arms and weapons. There is such a thing as evil and it needs to be kept in check until the gospel can go to all the world.....and then the end will come as Jesus said.

This will be my last post. My prayer is that you can see who Christ really is so you can be saved by His shed blood. He is the Lamb of God Rob. He is the Son of God. He is the only Way to everlasting life. That is what He said, not me.
 

BB

Membership Revoked
I just saw your latest post. My reply is that a person who is not born-again and does not have the Holy Spirit will have many questions and doubts that can only be cleared away, not by scholars and semantics, but by receiving wisdom and revelation that comes only from God to those who believe in His Son.

God is a righteous Judge and He will judge perfectly and justly.
 

Rob

Inactive
BB said:
I just saw your latest post. My reply is that a person who is not born-again and does not have the Holy Spirit will have many questions and doubts that can only be cleared away, not by scholars and semantics, but by receiving wisdom and revelation that comes only from God to those who believe in His Son.

In short you do not have an answer for this anymore than the first question I posed but you will continue to judge all those who disagree with you as 'evil'.

<B>God is a righteous Judge and He will judge perfectly and justly.</B>

Exactly, God will judge, not you. It is not in your right but you have this book, however good or bad, however correct or false, that, through your subjectivity, establishes your right. A book that you believe says all other books are wrong and ‘evil’.
You have this belief that everyone who does not agree with you is void of God, void of spirituality and morality yet you can not justify your own propensity to kill.

The Buddhist say, “There is no question that you cannot ask the Buddha” and this is as it should be. What God would limit your right to reason and to inquire?

‘New age’? Is morality ‘new age’?

Morality does not have to stand the test of time. Morality has to stand the test of reason.

As for Christianity it was established two thousand years ago through Christ. That's why it is called 'Christianity'.

“Cogito, ergo sum”
Descartes
 

Rob

Inactive
Apparently not all of them.

You are faced with several unanswered questions about your own actions and morality.

This is the same thinking that has created the wars and genocides that litter history. So please sir, do not say you are moral unless you can establish your morality because without reason your actions fall on the same subjectivity that created the Inquisition. An action, while filled with blanket judgement and condemnation, possessed neither morality nor reason.
 

BB

Membership Revoked
This sums it all up Rob.

This post by Tras summed it all up a long time ago. Wished I would have listened, but I thought you would listen to reason and Christ and you refuse to listen to either.

It is very simple, Rob, but you will not believe if I tell you. You are the very poster boy of why this thread exists, and such a perfect straight man, that I will not allow you to irritate me.

Must I repeat that it is futile to dispute with you what you do not believe exists, or to define for you what you refuse definition of? You wish to divert, you attempt to disrupt, but you are not interested in the truth. I will not descend into madness with you, Rob, and I will not grant you your wish to negate any of the impact of this thread.

THIS is the Rob we are supposed to consider credible and anything else than duplicitous when he spouts off what "Christianity" is, or what "Christ taught" in your efforts to condemn Christians? I can link to where you stated this if need be:

"I’m waiting for your proof that the bible, with all its hate and killing, is not the work of Lucifer." Rob

I believe I have told you before that there are 11 Hebrew words for kill, Rob, and that the one in the Commandment, "Thou shalt do no murder" is only one. There is indeed a time for war, and a Christian may indeed kill in defense, in punishment, and in war, according to the teachings of Jesus The Christ, (the God of the Bible - the whole Bible, which you so errantly condemn in gross ignorance).

Now that is as far as I am going to take your deliberate attempt at diversion, as BB has also answered your question, for anyone with ears to hear.

The point of this thread is that Amercians, en masse, have spoken out against evil and moral depravity with their votes in this election, and that an incremental step has been taken thereby toward the return of fixed standards of right and wrong to our public life and society.

Putting this in perspective of your diversions, objections, and attempts to disrupt, then, we see once more ever so clearly that your only motivation in participation is your personal loathing of any fixed standard of right and wrong.

In Biblical terms, you are of those who "hate the light, because their deeds are evil". As such, beyond bringing this a bit abruptly to your attention once more, you have no place at this table. Hurling your imprecations is meaningless, because you and your ilk have indeed come out the LOSERS of this election, and must therefore modify your thinking and conduct in some meaningful way if you wish to be heard, or else continue to marginalize yourselves further. YOU are the ones who must "reach out" if you desire acceptance in any measure.

THAT is what this thread is about. We are attemting to turn the tide until the madness and evil you spout, with your deleterious influence, is no longer acceptable once more. The insane and the evil should keep silent when the righteous rule. We are certainly not there yet, but we are hopeful, and have voted based upon that hope.

That there are enough of US to put you in your place politically is a very good start. Please do make a note of it. Since you personally oppose all that we believe in, you might also wish to consider that we are not a bunch of mamby-pamby pacifists, either. We believe firmly in our right to defend our way of life from the likes of you, by force of arms as necessary. We had eight years of overtly evil rule in the Clintonista years, with a lingering bad taste of what it is like to be marginalized for righteousness' sake.

We are not so interested in controlling your right to be insane as we are in restoring the time-honored safeguards against your having the power to enforce your evil and insanity through the civil power, and in reminding you that insanity and evil do not entitle you to legally protected status or any right to be "tolerated" as to acceptance in our society. That is the subject of this thread.

Tras
 

Rob

Inactive
I see, you can’t answer the questions posed to you so now you want to invoke this man’s subjectivity to substitute for your own subjectivity. His accusations in place of yours.

Who gives either of you the right to judge anyone? When did God grant you that right?

I have no battle with Christianity but your thinking does not coincide with the teachings of Christ and you have not shown where they do.

You march against abortion but then you admittedly approve of the dropping of the A bomb that indeed killed pregnant women.

You preach that no one can enter ‘heaven’ without accepting Jesus but then you support the wars that preclude the individuals opportunity to find that Jesus.

Sir you are in conflict with your own morality regardless of whom you align your thinking with and at that point in your existence when you stand before your God it is your actions not your associations that will determine your morality.
 

BB

Membership Revoked
>I see, you can't answer the questions posed to you so now you want to invoke this man's subjectivity to substitute for your own subjectivity. His accusations in place of yours.

Read my posts again for the answers to your questions. You seem to have a reading or comprehension disability..

> Who gives either of you the right to judge anyone? When did God grant you that right?

Jesus gave us that right when we received Him as Savior and became priests and kings with Him. Ephesians 2:6 teaches we sit with Him in heavenly places.

> I have no battle with Christianity but your thinking does not coincide with the teachings of Christ and you have not shown where they do.

Yes, you do have a battle with Christianity, since you lie about Jesus and the Bible.

> You march against abortion but then you admittedly approve of the dropping of the A bomb that indeed killed pregnant women.

That is correct, in order to save pregnant women in the South Pacific and around the world. Get it yet?

> You preach that no one can enter 'heaven' without accepting Jesus but then you support the wars that preclude the individuals opportunity to find that Jesus.

God is just but also merciful. Everyone will be judged according to the light they had. Jesus said His Father would destroy Jerusalem if they didn't believe in Him. They didn't. He did and there were pregnant women in Jerusalem who ended up eating their babies to keep from starving.

> Sir you are in conflict with your own morality regardless of whom you align your thinking with and at that point in your existence when you stand before your God it is your actions not your associations that will determine your morality.

Any you sir are ignorant of reality as the military and police where you live provides you with safety to work and sleep. You need to get on your knees and thank God for instituting government that kills evildoers. Only one thing will avail any person who has to stand before God and it's not actions as you state. That is a lie born of hell itself. It is only the BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD that can help you sir, not morality or how one thinks about war.
 
I do not like the term "morals". Morals are a human construct. As such the morals in California and New York are much different then those found in the burbs in the South and Mid West. The only unchanging "moral" code is found in God's Word. God does not change!

First death and then the judgement!
 

Rob

Inactive
BB said:
>I see, you can't answer the questions posed to you so now you want to invoke this man's subjectivity to substitute for your own subjectivity. His accusations in place of yours.

Read my posts again for the answers to your questions. You seem to have a reading or comprehension disability..

I hope you’re not clinging to Romans 13.

> Who gives either of you the right to judge anyone? When did God grant you that right?

Jesus gave us that right when we received Him as Savior and became priests and kings with Him. Ephesians 2:6 teaches we sit with Him in heavenly places.

Was that the same right he gave those ‘christians’ during the Inquisition? I’m starting to see the problem.... Self righteousness, you think you’re God.

> I have no battle with Christianity but your thinking does not coincide with the teachings of Christ and you have not shown where they do.

Yes, you do have a battle with Christianity, since you lie about Jesus and the Bible.

Please, spare me this nonsense.

> You march against abortion but then you admittedly approve of the dropping of the A bomb that indeed killed pregnant women.

That is correct, in order to save pregnant women in the South Pacific and around the world. Get it yet?

Now you’re deciding which pregnant women should be saved. How nice. You do think you’re God.

The Japanese were working out terms of surrender with Russia before we dropped the first bomb we knew this because we had broken their code but it wasn’t enough we had to drop the second one. The first one killed 100 thousand people instantly and the second one killed 50 thousand people over 5 years and they suffered horribly. J.R. Oppenheimer the head of the Manhattan Project that built the bomb said, “we have sinned”. Bob McNamara and Curtis Le May said, “ if we had lost the war we would have been tried for war crimes.” Read some history.



> You preach that no one can enter 'heaven' without accepting Jesus but then you support the wars that preclude the individuals opportunity to find that Jesus.

God is just but also merciful. Everyone will be judged according to the light they had. Jesus said His Father would destroy Jerusalem if they didn't believe in Him. They didn't. He did and there were pregnant women in Jerusalem who ended up eating their babies to keep from starving.

What’s this, even if true, got to do with your actions. When did you become God? Did you read the question. You kill someone, you deprive them of ‘heaven’ by your actions. So are you saying that someone who has not accepted Jesus CAN go to ‘heaven’? Now your contradicting your own words.
You’re assuming Godly rights you don’t have.

> Sir you are in conflict with your own morality regardless of whom you align your thinking with and at that point in your existence when you stand before your God it is your actions not your associations that will determine your morality.

<B>Any you sir are ignorant of reality as the military and police where you live provides you with safety to work and sleep. You need to get on your knees and thank God for instituting government that kills evildoers. Only one thing will avail any person who has to stand before God and it's not actions as you state. That is a lie born of hell itself. It is only the BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD that can help you sir, not morality or how one thinks about war.</B>

“Any sir you are ignorant” ?? This doesn’t make sense.
I think you’re having a problem with ‘evildoers’. You’re deciding who they are. Now, once again, we are back to the Inquisitions and you’re the inquisitor.
Please read some history.

Spare me the “lamb of God” and I don’t believe in ‘hell’. I don’t ask you to accept my religious beliefs. Why do you expect me to accept yours? That’s what the religious fanatic on the other side of the world wants me to do. So what separates you from him? You’re him you were just born in a different place.
You're starting to get angry.... It won't help you.
 
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Rob

Inactive
Copter Doctor said:
I do not like the term "morals". Morals are a human construct. As such the morals in California and New York are much different then those found in the burbs in the South and Mid West. The only unchanging "moral" code is found in God's Word. God does not change!

First death and then the judgement!

Fine so let’s call it ethics which is more accurate.
Can we get away from this socialized ‘christian’ concept? Some of you act like this is the only religious perspective in the world and there are no others.
Talk about xenophobia and closed mindedness.
So you have this concept of God. What makes you think your morality is morality?

The first question we have to ask then is what is it to be a moral individual?

Is fabrication moral?
Is killing moral?
Is homosexuality moral?

Can we decide without the confines of a book, any book? Can we find out without all that nonsense? Find out from within ourselves and not run to a political system with its laws or a religious system with its rules.

Maybe there are people who think for themselves. Who use reason and aren’t tied to systems. People who are free. Maybe they can say something here because this constant drone of socialized myopic ‘christianity’ is killing me!!
 

BB

Membership Revoked
Rob, that evil spirit in you can't stand it whenever I mention THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD, can it? You are under the power of Satan you know.

This conversation is going no where. Our LORD has told us not to cast our pearls before swine, so I'll bid you farewell Rob. Enjoy Robbieland protected by police and the military and sadly the haunt of dark spirits.
 

Rob

Inactive
BB said:
Rob, that evil spirit in you can't stand it whenever I mention THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD, can it? You are under the power of Satan you know.

Yes, the old ploy handed down through history by every religious fanatic.
Let’s call ‘evil’ that which we can’t refute.
That which is not of our thinking.
Let’s read one book and close our minds and hearts to any other thinking.
Let’s condemn everything else from our tiny little corner.
Let’s burn at the stake all this ‘evil’ in the world so that nothing stands but us.
Let’s shout our ‘truth’ is the only ‘truth’ and our reality is the only reality and everyone else in the world is wrong.


With all the beliefs in the world, all the billions of people, yours is the only one that is right.

I simply have no answer to the mind that could fool itself into believing that.

God is my judge sir and you are not God. You just think you are.
 

PentelPen

Membership Revoked
Survey: Format Influenced Voter Priorities

LINK

By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - This presidential election has been described by many as one in which morality mattered most to voters. But that perception may be driven at least partially by how pollsters asked voters about their priority issues.

Whether voters named "moral values" their key issue partly depended on whether that subject was included in a list of choices provided by pollsters, according to a Pew Research Center analysis released Thursday.

When "moral values" was included in poll questions, it was named more often than any other issue. But when voters were just asked to name the issue most important in their vote for president — without being given a list of answers — moral values trailed the war in Iraq and the economy, according to the Pew survey.

"The advantage of the open-ended question is it tells you what's at the top of mind for voters — what they're thinking," said Cliff Zukin, a veteran pollster and professor of public policy at Rutgers University. "Much too much has been made of the moral values answer."

Many Christian conservatives have sought to portray the election as validation for their emphasis on morality and the reason for President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election. While it's true voters who picked Bush were more apt to cite morality as the reason, political analyst Thomas Mann said it's too simplistic to say that issue determined the winner.

"It's a big mistake to say it's all a function of religious conservatives being motivated," said Mann, of the Brookings Institution. But, he added, "To say it wasn't a factor is just as foolish."

In exit polls conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International, "moral values" was one of seven items in a question that asked, "Which one issue mattered most in deciding how you voted for president." The other issues were taxes, education, Iraq, terrorism, economy/jobs, and health care.

Twenty-two percent chose "moral values," followed by the economy (20 percent), terrorism (19 percent) and Iraq (15 percent), according to the polls, which surveyed more than 13,600 voters and were conducted for The Associated Press and the major television networks.

The Pew Research Center polled 1,209 voters who said they cast ballots in the 2004 presidential election. When those voters were given a list, "moral values" was the most popular choice at 27 percent, followed by Iraq at 22 percent and the economy at 21 percent.

But when they were asked an open-ended question about the top issue, Iraq and the economy moved past moral values. Iraq was picked by 27 percent, the economy by 14 percent and moral values tied with terrorism at 9 percent.

"Moral values was an element in the Bush formula, but probably not the driving one," said Lee Miringoff, president of the National Council of Public Polls.

The Pew poll found that voters' reasons for picking "moral values" varies. Just over four in 10 of those who picked "moral values" from the list mentioned social issues like gay marriage and abortion, but others talked about qualities like religion, helping the poor, and candidates' honesty and strength of leadership.

"We did not see any indication that social conservative issues like abortion, gay rights and stem cell research were anywhere near as important as the economy and Iraq," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "'Moral values' is a phrase that's very attractive to people."

The Pew survey was taken Nov. 5-8 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
 

Rob

Inactive
While “moral values” might have been one of the questions asked. The question we still have to ask is, what are moral values?
If you ask ten people you will get ten answers. One person might say homosexuality is immoral and another might not.
It’s a difficult answer and two people voting for ‘moral values’ may be thinking two different things.
We can use socially established values but they are only a product of that society and societies are amoral. Two closed societies can exist in total harmony with two completely different value systems.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
That's really lame, BB

Rob, do you have 666 tattooed on your skull? Better check under your hair.

Can you see yourself in the mirror?

Are you afraid of garlic and crucifexes?


I love it when people accuse anyone who doesn't share their religious views to be "possessed by the devil."

Adoptive mother always told us we were full of Satan. She had us prayed (preyed) on and for, whipped us to drive the devil out.....

I'm sure she was right about one thing. Somebody in her family was bound for hell.

Don't think it's me, though.
 

Rob

Inactive
FL this really amazes me.

We have billions of people in the world with belief systems. Billions! Yet some of these ‘christians’ think, not only are those billions of people wrong, possessed, under ‘statan’s’ hand, mislead, etc. but they have the only ‘answer’. They read one book, have people of their own religion who disagree with their interpretation and yet still think everyone else is lost. Everyone’s book is ‘evil’. Everyone’s thinking is ‘evil’. Astounding, absolutely astounding.
I confronted them with their own contradictions and all they can do is call me ‘evil’, condemn me, curse me and give me some mumbo jumbo about how the ‘lamb of god’ is more than the ‘evil’ in me can take. Astounding.

What’s really scary is that they think they can legislate morality. What yard stick should we use? Their religious perceptions?
 

BB

Membership Revoked
FLoop: You are a Christian and should know better than to side with someone so clearly used by satan who can appear as an angel of light and uses false teachers as teachers of 'light'. Rob's logic not only fails spiritually, it fails rationally. He not only refuses to honestly deal with the Scriptures I provided him, he also failed to deal with the rational arguments I made for the necessity of police and military in an evil world. Unfortunately, innocent people are victims in this evil world, but that doesn't mean Christians should be protesting for our nation to get rid of the police and the military.

I value your remarks on this forum FL, but you have Rob pegged as a victim of Christian righteous indignation. The truth is that he is under the power of darkness and your posts supporting him enables him to deny this reality. Listen to the Word of the Lord through Paul:

2Timothy2: 23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

I tried to be kind and gently instruct Rob but it's a futile endeavor because his mind is under the control of satan who has "taken him captive to do his (satan's) will". His only hope is the Blood of Jesus which he blasphemes as he also does to Jesus' Word in the Bible.

I now will not have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments. What association has light with darkness?
 

nanna

Devil's Advocate
If evil is the freedom to exercise one's free will, and to be refused to be judged by man's interpretation of *whatever* ...

Yep.

I have no comment on abortion. Never been pregnant, and I would not judge for another.




nanna
 

Toto

Inactive
"This conversation is going no where. Our LORD has told us not to cast our pearls before swine, so I'll bid you farewell "

Rob, I am only responding to affirm that you have held up very well under satanic attack. Many of us who hold the true message of Jesus sacred are NOT deceived, but have been well instructed by your battle with BB.

The very elect ARE deceived. This is the true sign of the end of the ages.


BB, how DARE you use the "Blood of Jesus" as a CURSE? I never thought to hear it, ever. To use YOUR words, "I'll bid you farewell." Don't anticipate a response, and know that your curses have NO EFFECT upon the elect of Christ, but will be returned to you in measure, well pressed, shaken out.
 

Rob

Inactive
.



Abortion.
It’s the individuals responsibility not the states.

I am a pacifist I would not kill but do I have the right to tell others what to do? No I do not.

I cannot dictate to others my subjective opinions or spiritual perspectives. That would be depriving them of their religious freedom and I don’t have that right. No one does and it would be arrogant for them to believe that they do.

We cannot dictate morality. Morality is an aspect of individual will. We can force an individual to act a certain way through fear but we have not changed them or made them ‘moral’, we have only confined them to our own limits, our own perceptions of ‘truth’.

Blindly condemning another is a reflection of our fear. The fear that the foundation of our ‘truth’ is flawed and the louder we shout the more afraid we are.

Anger is ‘failed expectations’. We expect a certain set of premises to support a valid result and when a response deviates from our expected result our core perception is challenged and our fear manifests as anger.

This thread raises the issues of morality, a foolish debate? Let’s hope not. An argument? Why does the discussion of issues have to be an argument? Why do individuals have to be denigrated, accused and condemned for their views? What is the morality in that? How moral is the individual who employs those tactics?


.
 

Rob

Inactive
Toto said:
"This conversation is going no where. Our LORD has told us not to cast our pearls before swine, so I'll bid you farewell "

Rob, I am only responding to affirm that you have held up very well under satanic attack. Many of us who hold the true message of Jesus sacred are NOT deceived, but have been well instructed by your battle with BB.

The very elect ARE deceived. This is the true sign of the end of the ages.


BB, how DARE you use the "Blood of Jesus" as a CURSE? I never thought to hear it, ever. To use YOUR words, "I'll bid you farewell." Don't anticipate a response, and know that your curses have NO EFFECT upon the elect of Christ, but will be returned to you in measure, well pressed, shaken out.

Thank you. All I ask is that each decide for themself.
 

BB

Membership Revoked
For those of you claiming to be Christians in love with Jesus, His Work on the cross and His Word....and called to defend the faith once delivered to the saints....I offer the following from Rob. I for one am compelled to defend God's Word from such a slanderous attack straight from the evil one himself, regardless of your attacks on me personally.

"I’m waiting for your proof that the bible, with all its hate and killing, is not the work of Lucifer." -Rob
 

Rob

Inactive
Ah... Spin.
Did you go back and read the threads that Tras and I had? You’re quoting something that you have taken out of context and attempting to use it to show that I ‘hate’ the Bible. I don’t hate any books, after all, they are just books. What individuals DO with books is another issue. You are attempting to use the Bible to justify your killing, your condemnation of me and your hate, which after all, must exist if we believe killing is justified.
When we use a book, any book, to support our actions then we are required to prove the validity of that book. We can’t simply say that it is true because we believe it or it says so. This is circular reasoning.
Numbers, Deuteronomy. No thank you. I won’t live my life using some of the actions there to justify my morality.

Again, I believe Christ came to clarify many things and many distortions in the Old Testament and if we truly lived our lives, loving our brothers, not judging, not hating, not warring and seeing life from others perspectives without blanket condemnation then our lives and the world would be different. The problem is some of us can’t do that. We must live in fear and we must have a book or other avenue to justify that fear. We must constantly have an enemy and condemn their beliefs as ‘evil’.

Did Christ teach us to have enemies, to hate and to war? Is that what you think? Then it’s time to reevaluate your thinking and the suffering that thinking has brought to the world and it’s time to reevaluate your book or your interpretation of that book because it appears to me that there is something very wrong somewhere.

So perhaps it is time for you to ask yourself if it is not your own thinking that you must begin to question.
Spirituality is the ability to constantly inquire into our thoughts and actions.(Introspection) It is not to ask God to justify what we do but to ask God for the understanding and insight to act morally and spiritually regardless of the Chaos in the world around us. It is called prayer sir and each of us should humbly employ it every day for it can truly change a world that your bloody sword has never changed.
 

Missrebel

Standing by...
BB said:
For those of you claiming to be Christians in love with Jesus, His Work on the cross and His Word....and called to defend the faith once delivered to the saints....I offer the following from Rob. I for one am compelled to defend God's Word from such a slanderous attack straight from the evil one himself, regardless of your attacks on me personally.


Quote:
"I’m waiting for your proof that the bible, with all its hate and killing, is not the work of Lucifer." -Rob



Uh...the arrogant and proud one/ satan/lucifer simply couldn't write a book whose ending leaves him anything but the ultimate victor....uuummm from this humble readers perspective....uuummm the end of the book shows him getting his true reward and those who choose to follow 'their own' twisted logic and proud word smithing will likely receive their true rewards as well.....as will we all.


Again, I believe Christ came to clarify many things and many distortions in the Old Testament and if we truly lived our lives, loving our brothers, not judging, not hating, not warring and seeing life from others perspectives without blanket condemnation then our lives and the world would be different. The problem is some of us can’t do that. We must live in fear and we must have a book or other avenue to justify that fear. We must constantly have an enemy and condemn their beliefs as ‘evil’.



Just one other little thing here...I personally would choose to have no enemies but since GOD said I do, I believe Him. And the clarity that you believe that Christ needed to bring was not necessary for The Word's sake. God's Word is pure...Christ is the fulfillment of the promises of God, so I guess the problems with understanding that must be somewhere else....

maybe in the heart that is desperately wicked?

I used to think that God was my own...now I just hope that I am His.
 

Rob

Inactive
Missrebel said:
<I>Quote:
"I’m waiting for your proof that the bible, with all its hate and killing, is not the work of Lucifer." -Rob </I>


<B>Uh...the arrogant and proud one/ satan/lucifer simply couldn't write a book whose ending leaves him anything but the ultimate victor....uuummm from this humble readers perspective....uuummm the end of the book shows him getting his true reward and those who choose to follow 'their own' twisted logic and proud word smithing will likely receive their true rewards as well.....as will we all.</B>

We have no way of validating your premise. It is just opinion. Maybe he did to fool you.


<I>Again, I believe Christ came to clarify many things and many distortions in the Old Testament and if we truly lived our lives, loving our brothers, not judging, not hating, not warring and seeing life from others perspectives without blanket condemnation then our lives and the world would be different. The problem is some of us can’t do that. We must live in fear and we must have a book or other avenue to justify that fear. We must constantly have an enemy and condemn their beliefs as ‘evil’. </I>



<B>Just one other little thing here...I personally would choose to have no enemies but since GOD said I do, I believe Him. And the clarity that you believe that Christ needed to bring was not necessary for The Word's sake. God's Word is pure...Christ is the fulfillment of the promises of God, so I guess the problems with understanding that must be somewhere else....</B>

“God said you do”? That’s your interpretation, not mine. Lao Tse, Krishna and Gandhi said they had no enemies. Christ preached brotherly love, I don’t think it was him.

So how do you deal with your enemies? War?
Is that what Christ did, Siddhartha Guatama did? I don’t think so, as far as we can tell they didn’t.

<B>maybe in the heart that is desperately wicked?</B>

Whose heart would you be talking about? Are you endowed with the power to see people’s ‘evil’. That’s what they thought in the Inquisition. Look what that created.

What’s with the uhs and uummms? They don’t support your position or establish validity so why use them?

Look this thread is about morality, not our religious perspectives.

So what is it to be moral? Can you answer that without a book, without someone else’s opinion? Can you find out from within yourself ? Because that’s the origin of morality, not a political or religious system. If we use a religious system then whose should we use, yours, theirs? You think your right someone else thinks their right, you go to war kill each other and nothing has changed since the beginning of recorded history. Can we get away from that nonsense, get away from the accusations of ‘evil’, the stupidity of war, the fragmented thinking of me and you, friend and enemy?

I say war is immoral, killing is immoral. That you can’t save an unborn baby and then accept killing one through ‘collateral damage’ because killing then becomes your subjective opinion.
You can’t have you cake and eat it too. You either save all babies or none because each is equal in God’s eyes.

So what’s you answer?
 

Missrebel

Standing by...
Uh and uuuummm are my way of being cyber polite and indicate that I am giving you a moment to re/consider. Forgive me if I appeared disingenuous.

I will answer your question but you won't like it because we don't have the same working vocabulary.

Look this thread is about morality, not our religious perspectives.

So what is it to be moral? Can you answer that without a book, without someone else’s opinion? Can you find out from within yourself ? Because that’s the origin of morality, not a political or religious system. If we use a religious system then whose should we use, yours, theirs? You think your right someone else thinks their right, you go to war kill each other and nothing has changed since the beginning of recorded history. Can we get away from that nonsense, get away from the accusations of ‘evil’, the stupidity of war, the fragmented thinking of me and you, friend and enemy?

I say war is immoral, killing is immoral. That you can’t save an unborn baby and then accept killing one through ‘collateral damage’ because killing then becomes your subjective opinion.
You can’t have you cake and eat it too. You either save all babies or none because each is equal in God’s eyes.

So what’s you answer?


You want the definition of morality without benefit of any religious interference. I don't believe that there IS such a thing. I said that the heart is desperately wicked...no accusation or x-ray vision needed...I simply trust the Word of God to be true and He said that the human heart is desperately wicked.

Now without His Words in a book would I know that? ...Maybe...on second thought all I would have to do is look around a little and I'm sure I could see all kinds of evidence of humanity's wickedness.

Without His words in my heart would I admit that? Probably only in others. What do I mean? That my own pride and arrogance will only allow me to see and condemn easily someone else's faults...funny but Jesus addressed that as well, kind of like He knew what we really are or something. (I say WE because I am as guilty as some and worse than others).

You have used scriptural concepts to try and convince me that I should not use scriptural references to be moral. What you would like to hear is that man can be moral without God...you and the others who question the bible as an authoritative work want to find a way to bring about utopia without any of the religious convention and prove somehow that man is God because he THINKS. Or that pacifism somehow equates with brotherly love...you said Christ was a pacifist and that he died...I say he slew His enemy and defeated the powers of darkness when He rose from the dead.

You asked how I deal with my enemies. First I can honestly say that those that I would consider my enemy are not you and anyone who thinks like you...anyone who pokes God in the eye will have to answer to Him, just like I will for my sins. The enemy I resist uses people and children and life and then after he is finished he spits them out to be judged.

What is moral...nothing without a standard to compare it to. Who shall offer the standard? I choose Jesus. NOT Allah or Buddah or anyone else...why? None offer me life but Christ.

and as for that little quip about satan writing a book to fool little old worthless me...get a grip. Do you honestly think for one second that a pseudo-god who risked it all because of pride, would be willing to consider anyone but himself worthy of any consideration? Much less 'see' anyone of any value but himself...ah the limits of cyber conversation for those like me who are slow to articulate...


There are immoral wars, yes.
There are moral wars.
There are moral leaders and immoral leaders.
Children will die in moral and immoral wars. I can save no one.
I pray that I will be kept from the blindness that will affect so many and that if I fall short that I not cause anyone else to fall as well.

If you want to know what I think is moral that about sums it up...that I cause no one else to sin. I will be held accountable.But sin is a whole other thread that polite society can't seem to discuss anymore...

I guess it won't mean squat to hear this but my heart aches when I read the stuff you write. Others who have your same style cause me to feel the same way. I hear you talk and I understand your frustration...how wonderful the world would be if we could truly put aside the divisions. But that is not ours to do and I can prove it...if I say peace, will that make it happen? Nope because others will only accept that offer of peace if I renounce something that is more of me than the air I breathe. How can we cross the divide? I believe that we are getting closer to that event all the time. Sadly it will come with pain and finality. But I hope and pray that I and you are on the same side of the line when it is drawn...
 

Rob

Inactive
Missrebel said:
Uh and uuuummm are my way of being cyber polite and indicate that I am giving you a moment to re/consider. Forgive me if I appeared disingenuous.

Shouldn’t our reason be the thing that provokes thought?

<B>I will answer your question but you won't like it because we don't have the same working vocabulary. </B>

Vocabulary or statements? Again if I disagree with you it is through my perceptions of ‘truth’ as opposed to yours. And please don’t think I am ever angry with you or anyone else. Intelligent individuals should be able to share views and learn from each other without childish anger or name calling.

<I>Look this thread is about morality, not our religious perspectives.

So what is it to be moral? Can you answer that without a book, without someone else’s opinion? Can you find out from within yourself ? Because that’s the origin of morality, not a political or religious system. If we use a religious system then whose should we use, yours, theirs? You think your right someone else thinks their right, you go to war kill each other and nothing has changed since the beginning of recorded history. Can we get away from that nonsense, get away from the accusations of ‘evil’, the stupidity of war, the fragmented thinking of me and you, friend and enemy?

I say war is immoral, killing is immoral. That you can’t save an unborn baby and then accept killing one through ‘collateral damage’ because killing then becomes your subjective opinion.
You can’t have you cake and eat it too. You either save all babies or none because each is equal in God’s eyes.

So what’s you answer?</I>

<B>You want the definition of morality without benefit of any religious interference. I don't believe that there IS such a thing. </B>

Not the definition. That is easy enough. I want the justification for your actions that you believe are moral.

You don’t believe there is such a thing? Can’t be moral without a book, someone else’s opinion? Is that what you’re saying? That God is not within you, that you can’t find truth from within yourself?

<B>I said that the heart is desperately wicked...no accusation or x-ray vision needed...I simply trust the Word of God to be true and He said that the human heart is desperately wicked.</B>

No, you trust a book that you believe represents the word of God. Big difference. Now you expect the individual to be wicked without inquiring on your own, without introspection. What if your book is wrong on this issue?

<B>Now without His Words in a book would I know that? ...Maybe...on second thought all I would have to do is look around a little and I'm sure I could see all kinds of evidence of humanity's wickedness.</B>

Good start but look without preconceived words from a book.

<B>Without His words in my heart would I admit that? Probably only in others. What do I mean? That my own pride and arrogance will only allow me to see and condemn easily someone else's faults...funny but Jesus addressed that as well, kind of like He knew what we really are or something. (I say WE because I am as guilty as some and worse than others).</B>

Yes but the question is, is God in your heart without the book? If no book existed would you be abandoned by God?

<B>You have used scriptural concepts to try and convince me that I should not use scriptural references to be moral.</B>

No I only used this avenue because it is one you know. I would as easily debated the issue from another or no religion.

<B>What you would like to hear is that man can be moral without God...you and the others who question the bible as an authoritative work want to find a way to bring about utopia without any of the religious convention and prove somehow that man is God because he THINKS. Or that pacifism somehow equates with brotherly love...</B>

No, not at all. My premise is that God is from within the individual and man’s morality is not a product of a book because when the book becomes the impetus of our actions then we no longer reason. We take someone else’s word for the truth we should find within ourselves. Then we have my book and your book. My concepts of the truth and yours. No we have a problem with whose book is right. Morality is not established by religious or political systems. They are amoral. Morality can only come from the core of the individual because there is where he is at one with God.


<B>you said Christ was a pacifist and that he died...I say he slew His enemy and defeated the powers of darkness when He rose from the dead.</B>

I say Christ never raised a weapon. He preached non-violence and never warred along with other spiritual leaders. So if you say you are a Christian I don’t see how you can be one who follows what Christ preached and did and then war.
As far as slewing his enemies at his death then maybe if you believe strongly enough in that you can too but while you're alive your actions if you declare to be a Christian, must follow his.



<B>You asked how I deal with my enemies. First I can honestly say that those that I would consider my enemy are not you and anyone who thinks like you...anyone who pokes God in the eye will have to answer to Him, just like I will for my sins.</B>

Am I “poking god in the eye”? Am I challanging Christ’s actions? Am I hating, killing and condemning? Perhaps you should look back over this thread?

<B>What is moral...nothing without a standard to compare it to. Who shall offer the standard? I choose Jesus. NOT Allah or Buddah or anyone else...why? None offer me life but Christ.</B>

You don’t know that. It is a statement void of reason and inquiry.


<B>There are immoral wars, yes.</B>

All war is immoral.

<B>There are moral wars.</B>

Which ones? Maybe you better read some history.

<B>There are moral leaders and immoral leaders.</B>

Is your morality a product of your leader. What are you saying here?

<B>Children will die in moral and immoral wars. I can save no one.</B>

So then you’re a pacifist.


<B>If you want to know what I think is moral that about sums it up...that I cause no one else to sin. I will be held accountable.But sin is a whole other thread that polite society can't seem to discuss anymore...</B>


Can you cause someone else to sin? Is that within your power or theirs?

You’ll have to be more clear. I’m not sure if you think war is moral or not.

<B>I guess it won't mean squat to hear this but my heart aches when I read the stuff you write. Others who have your same style cause me to feel the same way. I hear you talk and I understand your frustration..</B>

I’m not frustrated. You’re wrong. what's your point here?

.<B>how wonderful the world would be if we could truly put aside the divisions. But that is not ours to do and I can prove it...if I say peace, will that make it happen? Nope because others will only accept that offer of peace if I renounce something that is more of me than the air I breathe. How can we cross the divide? I believe that we are getting closer to that event all the time. Sadly it will come with pain and finality. But I hope and pray that I and you are on the same side of the line when it is drawn...</B>

Peace comes from within the individual. If you want peace find it there not in a social or religious system. When we find peace within ourselves then no one can take it away. No book, no government and no other individual. When we raise our fist then the peace within us vanishes.

There is a story about an old Native American and his grandson. The old man says,” I feel there are two wolves fighting inside me. One is full of anger and hate and the other full of compassion and peace.” His nephew asks,” which one wins grandfather?” and the old man replies, “The one I feed.”

Again and again,
I say war is immoral, killing is immoral. That you can’t save an unborn baby and then accept killing one through ‘collateral damage’ because killing then becomes your subjective opinion.
You can’t have you cake and eat it too. You either save all babies or none because each is equal in God’s eyes.

So what’s you answer? Whom do you save, both or neither?
 
That's a bold-faced lie, Rob. It wasn't taken the least bit out of context. Your personal devils are liars too. Many posts ago you all told us you were finished with this thread. Did we take that out of context too? I think not, since I certainly didn't agree to leave, it follows that you must have been referring to your little entourage, and lying to boot.

Tell you what, Rob. You take your "war is immoral" hypothesis somewhere in Africa and see how long it lasts without those who do not share your delusions to protect you. No one here said war is a good thing; they said defense is a good thing, and because defense is a good thing, war can be necessary. You are a deliberate confusionist, and fools like you would be long ago extinct were it not for your betters taking the responsiblity you refuse for your own protection and defense.

And YOU have no idea what you are talking about, Toto, and should be deeply ashamed. BB is one of the most loving, wise, knowledgable, and consistent Christian witnesses on this board. By falsely accusing him of using the Blood Of Jesus as a curse, his defense of the Faith with satanic attack, and the likes of Rob with The Elect, you have just branded yourself as either hopelessly confused, trafficking with devils like Rob, or both.

Now I am finished with this thread, and encourage every other Christian here to leave Rob & Co. to knash their teeth alone against the Word Of God, the only fixed standard of reality and morality given for all time to mankind; and His people.

It is the title message of this thread which stirs the Evil One with his minions to accuse the brethren and The Word. Let them rail into the void, then, but I would ask that you do not encourage them further. As I pointed out much earlier in this thread, arguing with devils is a descent into madness with them. If you are in Christ, you must learn to recognize them and to deny them voice.

Tras
 

Missrebel

Standing by...
Rob,


Four children stand in the middle of the playground...no adults, no rules posted anywhere, sunny day, green grass, sweet breeze...can you picture that. None of the 4 are starving, none are ill and all are equal in their environment. Still with me? The only difference is that one of the four is physically larger than the others and one is physically smaller than the others. They are tossing a little red ball around, taking turns. See it?

Now two of the children step away from the center of the playground for some reason (the reason is not important, they just wander a short distance away.) The largest and the smallest are still standing in the center of the playground. Tossing the little red ball.

Something happens. It makes no difference what causes the something, because we don't have the ability to find out what it is anyway, and this is my story to tell. Something happens...suddenly the large and the small child are VERY angry with each other and are shouting at one another. The two children watching are still not involved...BUT...one of the two takes a half step towards the argument...the other starts worrying that something might happen.

The smaller child pokes the larger child because he is being spit on and the larger suddenly picks the smaller up and starts shaking him...outside the confrontation, one child takes another step closer and the other says please stop.

The larger child now throws the smallest to the ground and begins beating him with fists. There is blood and there are bad sounds.

One of the children on the outside is now running to the fight, and he is angry too. He is angry because the larger is killing the smaller and they had all been friends and the larger is so much stronger than the smaller and should know that the smaller will DIE if the larger doesn't or isn't stopped. The other child on the outside continues to watch from a safe distance and wonders why the little one poked and why the larger one won't stop?

Now there are three children fighting. One on the offense, one on the defense and one defending the smallest. It is a fierce battle between strength of body and strength of compassion...And always there is that one who is standing on the outside watching and evaluating and wondering what the fuss is all about.

Two children die.

The largest stands up and catches his breath,
Wipes his hands,
Picks up the ball and tosses it into the air,
Looks around and sees the last child who stood on the outside watching...
and says.........Want to play ball?





Luke 12
3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.




Thank you Rob for the conversation. I never leave these threads totally unscathed but I always leave with a stronger sense of the power of God and a deeper respect for the power of Truth. The reasons we can't see eye to eye are clearer to me now than when I started. We honestly do have a different vocabulary because I truly do believe that God's Word is all the power there is or will ever be. Man is less than nothing but dust without it. I hope for you someday that you recognize what you are seeking. That you find the strength of conviction to either embrace ALL the Truth or just a mustard seeds worth anyway.
 

Rob

Inactive
Trasael Adnepos said:
That's a bold-faced lie, Rob. It wasn't taken the least bit out of context. Your personal devils are liars too. Many posts ago you all told us you were finished with this thread. Did we take that out of context too? I think not, since I certainly didn't agree to leave, it follows that you must have been referring to your little entourage, and lying to boot.

trafficking with devils like Rob.

Tras

Rob said:
<B>We are done Mr. Adnepos.</B>

No, I said WE are done on this thread. That’s you and I. Not me and this subject or thread. Your comprehension is once again lacking along with your ability to reason.
It was BB who several times left the debate. Maybe you should address his vacillations.

If you want to debate me on further threads you will either learn to act civilly and with dignity or I will not respond to you.
Stop condemning me and calling me ‘evil’. I’m wearying of it and you don’t have the right.
Didn’t you get banned from this board once already for your actions?
 
Last edited:

Rob

Inactive
<B>Missrebel</B>


Are we having a debate or are you just expressing your opinion?
You asked me several questions and made several statements that I replied to but you never answered my questions.

Now you give me a story, a metaphor, about boys in a school yard.
What are you trying to say? If we don’t kill our enemies they will kill us? That we will always be over run by bullies? An eye for an eye? You might want to go back and read some history. Man has been hating and killing since the beginning of recorded history. Violence has not stopped war, it is war.

<B>But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.</B>

Does God want us to fear him? Is this the root of your morality? “Do what I say or you’ll go to hell?” So is your God the one with the biggest stick that you obey out of fear? Because if he is your back in the school yard.
Or is God a God of forgiveness, understanding and of love, not its opposite fear?

<B>Thank you Rob for the conversation. I never leave these threads totally unscathed but I always leave with a stronger sense of the power of God and a deeper respect for the power of Truth.
The reasons we can't see eye to eye are clearer to me now than when I started. We honestly do have a different vocabulary because I truly do believe that God's Word is all the power there is or will ever be.</B>

The problem is that, while “God’s word is all the power there is or will ever be” you still haven’t established that your perceptions ARE God’s word. Whose perceptions of god should I accept? Yours, the Quaker’s, the Hindu’s. Why are yours right and theirs wrong? Because you say so?


<B>Man is less than nothing but dust without it. I hope for you someday that you recognize what you are seeking. That you find the strength of conviction to either embrace ALL the Truth or just a mustard seeds worth anyway.</B>

And you have ALL the truth? You and no one else, no other religious belief, no other individual, only you. With the billions of people inquiring into God, praying to God, only you. So now you can stop looking for God, stop questioning your actions? Is that what you think? Astounding.

Your thinking will never stop war, never stop hate, will never stop the illusion of fragmentation.
 

Missrebel

Standing by...
Rob,
...you keep missing the love...

I will tell you though that you are so close...just a heartbeat away.

Thank you again, but I can't debate anymore.

I never was any good at it.

Besides,

Jesus already won. He's just being patient and waiting for the rest of the players to catch up.
 
Very good object lesson, Missrebel.

In your imaginary world, Rob, where you create your own reality. I call `em as I see `em. I've read, watched, interjected, and have met with your hostility for speaking the truth in defense of the hearts and minds of smaller other children on threads where you rather vividly described your personal traffic with demons, Rob, in the evident hope bringing hapless others under their power to the extent you are.

I'm quite certain I could find those threads. Because you actively and willingly serve the Enemy of all humankind, Rob, you have chosen to become my enemy as well, and are at enmity with God.

The Good News is that you may repent of your sorceries and spiritual fornications, call upon the Name of The LORD Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, and be free of those devils you call your guides, as a concious choice of your will. More good news is that these Christians you find so objectionable, including myself, pray you may yet have the presence of mind to make that rational choice, and peace, joy, and eternal life.

I bear you no malice as an individual human being, Rob. It is your evil influence upon society I find objectionable, because you have been deceived, believe a dangerous lie, and follow the Evil One.

Tras
_______

"My defense is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
God judgeth the righteous, and GOD is angry with the wicked every day.

If he turn not, He will whet His sword....

Psalm 7
 

Rob

Inactive
Trasael Adnepos said:
Very good object lesson, Missrebel.

In your imaginary world, Rob, where you create your own reality. I call `em as I see `em. I've read, watched, interjected, and have met with your hostility for speaking the truth in defense of the hearts and minds of smaller other children on threads where you rather vividly described your personal traffic with demons, Rob, in the evident hope bringing hapless others under their power to the extent you are.
I'm quite certain I could find those threads. Because you actively and willingly serve the Enemy of all humankind, Rob, you have chosen to become my enemy as well, and are at enmity with God.


Spare me your subjective ‘demons’ nonsense and spare me your judgements. God is my judge, not you. You just think you’re god. I’m so weary of this childish ‘fire and brimstone’ god that you perpetuate. This anthropomorphic god who punishes those who don’t obey him. That’s fear driven ‘morality’ and it stopped working when I was in the forth grade.


<B>The Good News is that you may repent of your sorceries and spiritual fornications, call upon the Name of The LORD Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins, and be free of those devils you call your guides, as a concious choice of your will. More good news is that these Christians you find so objectionable, including myself, pray you may yet have the presence of mind to make that rational choice, and peace, joy, and eternal life.</B>

The good news is that all I have to do is follow your path to god, is that it? 25 billion people on the planet and you have the only path to god. Remarkable.
Why should I follow your system any more then the next person’s system? What makes yours right and theirs wrong? Your book, their book? Your nonsense, their nonsense? Put them together and we have war, ‘holy’ war. Now there’s an oxymoron for you.

<B>I bear you no malice as an individual human being, Rob. It is your evil influence upon society I find objectionable, because you have been deceived, believe a dangerous lie, and follow the Evil One.</B>

Back to your subjective accusations. Spare me this rubbish.


<B>"My defense is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
God judgeth the righteous, and GOD is angry with the wicked every day.

If he turn not, He will whet His sword....</B>

You must think you’re very powerful to defend God. What makes you think God needs your defense? The Inquisition was a product of people who thought god needed their defense. I’d say you need his.

I have this book. It tells me it’s the only book, the only ‘truth’ and all other books are ‘evil’. You cling to your book and someone else clings to theirs. You both think you have the right to judge and condemn. You’re both arrogant and you’re both wrong.

I know it’s an abstract perception for you but do you have something to say based on reason and not your interpretation of a book?

The question is morality and what is moral, not your biased assessments or blanket condemnations.

So what’s the difference between abortion and killing a pregnant women or innocent child through war?



.
 
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