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[mbo]

amazing left-wing

please re-read what I said.

I do NOT love abortions. I do think sometimes it's the lesser of two evils - in that I don't think a rape victim should be forced to continue to suffer nine more months and give birth in more pain and blood, nor do I want to see a woman die from an illegal abortion ever again. I've wanted a child all my life and I think I'd consider myself blessed to conceive, by whatever means at this point.

Since I'm a devout Lutheran, and, incidentally, an ordained lay minister, it would be pretty stupid for me to hate God, now, wouldn't it???

The Shrub thinks he's chosen by God. I find that terribly pretentious and downright sacreligious, to say the least. Also dangerous. Be afraid of ANYONE who claims to speak for God. Pretty soon he'll be saying that since God ordained his election, God has approved his policies, so any Christian who doesn't support him is not a real Christian. OOps, sorry, you already think that.

Faith is a private matter. Furthermore, God gave us all the choice to choose Him or not. If people choose to accept or not accept God, that's between them and heaven.

Christians can't even agree on matters of dogma and Biblical interpretation. The Catholics think the Baptists are wrong, the Mormons have different beliefs, and I'm sure you dont' want to live by my Lutheran beliefs any more than I want to live under pentecostal doctrine. It's fine to have faith, it's fine to profess faith....but legislating faith??? I don't think so.

Night Breeze, the fact that searches are done by same sex or in privacy is irrelevant. I don't allow my DOCTOR to examine or touch my private parts. Why the hell would I let your kid do it, or should I???? Were the terrorists on 9-11 female American citizens??? You seem to have bought into the "well, it's just a little inconvenience, and it's for your own good, and there's no reason why you should find it embarrassing" crap. Yeah, I guess if they get to strip searches "there's no reason why I should be embarrassed since it's for safety" and "another woman will be doing it." Sorry, you can stuff that one.

one of my friends flew out of DFW right after 9-11. Because of the extra security, she tried to be helpful by not taking any carryon stuff other than her purse, wore stirrup pants and sandals and a tee shirt, and was traveling with her daughter. No good. She got pulled aside and when the ASSHOLE frisked her, he grabbed her breasts and squeezed. She had to submit to this SEXUAL ASSAULT and not defend herself because if she punched the jerk, as any woman would, SHE would go to jail. And what about the woman flying from NYC to Orlando who was forced to drink her own breast milk???? Sorry, I have zip sympathy for your son.

Save your suggestion that if I don't like it, quit flying. I ALREADY HAVE. But I will continue to voice displeasure since I think your "Put up or shut up" and "this is just how it has to be" is wrong. I have a right to do this (for now, anyway, till somebody destroys what's left of free speech.) If you find it offensive, I suggest that you put me on ignore. That's what it's for.

So your friend got her breast squeezed and now this is Bush's fault??!! The left-wing is nothing if not really amazing with the crap they come up with. So I guess if Al Gore were in office, this woman's breast would never have been squeezed!!??

I got news for you Fruit Loop, for you truly are loopy - the terrorists planned their 911 attack while Clinton/Gore were in office!!! So much for feel-good liberal CRAP!!!!!

 

[fruit loop]

Re-read my posts

I don't recall blaming ANY president for 9-11. I don't think 9-11 could have been prevented under ANY president's regime. There are too many airports with too many flights and no way to narrow it down.

I do think that the limitation on basic freedoms for real citizens IS Shrub's fault. He's dismantled what was left of the constitution and now there is no right to privacy and we're subject to loopy rules that do NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to make us safer.

The TSA has too much power and DOES abuse passengers. What about the ones who have been kicked off flights because they had a Harry Potter book or a Tom Clancy spy novel???? THat is just STUPID.

Random frisks don't work anymore. The people they DO single out are clearly not terrorists, but oh well. I notice a lot of young women get pulled out, a disproportionate number. All the while, young middle eastern men and foreign citizens go right on through.

You can be arrested on "suspicion of terrorism" for checking out library books on poisons. Doesn't matter why you did it. Once you're arrested, you DON'T necessarily have the right to a phone call or an attorney. Rights are suspended for suspected terrorists, remember - even if you're busted on a stupid reason.

I hope ya'll are happy and no, silver I won't "get over it." That piece of shit in Washington makes me wanna puke every time I see his leering ugly face

 

[Usually Curious]

"I do NOT love abortions. I do think sometimes it's the lesser of two evils - in that I don't think a rape victim should be forced to continue to suffer nine more months and give birth in more pain and blood, nor do I want to see a woman die from an illegal abortion ever again. I've wanted a child all my life and I think I'd consider myself blessed to conceive, by whatever means at this point.

Since I'm a devout Lutheran, and, incidentally, an ordained lay minister, it would be pretty stupid for me to hate God, now, wouldn't it???"

Wow, a pro-murder Lutheran minister. I didn't know they existed.

 

[Bearded Weirdo]

FL, I really feel sorry for you, and I do not mean that in a condescending way. It must be hard to enjoy life with this constant (and I believe paranoid) fear hanging over your head. I hope one day that you realize you've been had by people who are propagandazing you into hating our current administration.

 

[potemkin]

That piece of shit in Washington makes me wanna puke every time I see his leering ugly face

Better stay off the news and the Internet for 4 more years!

<img src=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/11/images/20041104-5_1104th-515h.jpg>

 

[fruit loop]

usually curious.....

The evangelical Luthern church considers abortion to be a matter for individual conscience, meaning that it's considered a medical matter and between the person and God.

Ya'll never answer this question. Tell me what you would say to the twelve year old rape victim who wants an abortion. I'm sorry dear, I wont' let you do this?

 

[jed turtle]

"Ya'll never answer this question. Tell me what you would say to the twelve year old rape victim who wants an abortion. I'm sorry dear, I wont' let you do this?"

i have to say this to you FL, because i think you must have suffered such an experience - either you or your child- because you are such a strong supporter of the right to murder a child because of rape.

i know some decisions in life are agonizing. the decision to change a job, change a spouse, move, punish a child, break off relations with a family member etc. but some decisions were never meant to be made by humans. the decision to kill an innocent human is one of those decisions.

i have said this elsewhere just this day, and i have said this for many years:

if someone breaks your arm, you do not cut off your arm. you get it fixed until it is healthy again, and then you hunt down the b*stard that willfully broke your arm and see that he gets full justice. when a rape occurs, first of all, one must question how much did the woman contribute to the event. was she modestly dressed or kind of lasciviously dressed? was she in the safe company of friends and or family or was she traveling alone and placing herself at risk? throughout history, society has recognized the dangers to women from rape and has always required that a woman have a male family member be the protector of her, either her father, brother, or husband.
to leave that umbrella of protection raised the risk. it's there in the OT.
all that aside, the same liberals that raise hell about demanding the right to kill the unborn living child for whatever reason, are the first to raise objections to applying the age-old penalty of death to rapists and murderers. dead rapists do not trouble anyone ever again. when a rape happens, justice needs to happen. what ever on God's green earth makes you or anyone think that the baby, however unwanted, needs to be killed for justice to occur? as many requests for adoption go unmet as there are babies are killed by abortion in the US. every year. twelve year old girls have delivered babies all over the world and all throughout history. not routinely, but often enough to know that it is not unheard of. no question that most of them are not ready to be the nurturers that the baby needs, but most are physically capable of delivering the baby safely, especially with modern medical help. babies do not need abortion. pregnant women do not need abortion. convicted rapists need to be killed. THEN the ever-increasing rate of that particular crime will finally begin to go down.

for a person to claim that they are a christian and also claims that abortion is justifiable shows that they really do not believe God when He said that children are a blessing and a gift from Him. Proponents of abortion are the most selfish and craziest people on earth. this is not to say that if, in the course of trying to save the life of a pregnant woman, that there might not be times when a doctor is unable to save the child also. but that is not abortion. the doctor has made the best attempt to save both lives, rather than willfully kill one of them.

 

[Usually Curious]

No, I don't believe in abortion for any reason. It's the ultimate stupidity to add to the angst of rape the guilt of abortion.

 

[WitsEnd]

"The evangelical Luthern church considers abortion to be a matter for individual conscience, meaning that it's considered a medical matter and between the person and God.

Ya'll never answer this question. Tell me what you would say to the twelve year old rape victim who wants an abortion. I'm sorry dear, I wont' let you do this?

Perhaps God had a purpose for that little unborn person if he/she had been allowed to live. To me there is never a reason to kill the unborn.

I spent my entire life as an ELCA member and I completely disagree with their stance. The ELCA is little by little removing GOD from their doctrine and it will only get worse. When it is said that abortion is "a medical matter between the individual person and God", that is crap!! As a Christian Lutheran, who do you believe is the Creator of Life? How can someone about to get an abortion even think it is ok with God to kill the life He has just created? It makes me gag to think that females think so little of themselves and their baby (IT IS A BABY!!) to just kill it. Once again I have to ask, what did the baby do to deserve capital punishment?

WE

 

[potemkin]

No, I don't believe in abortion for any reason. It's the ultimate stupidity to add to the angst of rape the guilt of abortion.

Let me guess, you have never seen the direct consequences pregnancy by rape?

 

[jed turtle]

Potemkin: "Let me guess, you have never seen the direct consequences pregnancy by rape?"

i am not sure what you mean by this question.
but Pam Stenzel's father was a rapist. Her biological mother made the decision to carry her to birth and give her up for adoption.

She is an AMAZING person, who travels the country and speaks to thousands of teens to educate them on the dangers of pre-/ extra- marital sex and does a phenomenal job of getting their attention and feeding them information that may well save their lives and help develop their integrity and character.

http://www.pamstenzel.com/

 

[fruit loop]

She's dead now, so I'll tell the story

Mom (the real one, not the adoptive) worked in a 7-11 store in 1971. The store was robbed by four black teens, who were indignant about the small amount of cash in the register. They abducted mom, raped her and threw her in the Scarborough Draw. (If you live in West Texas, you know where that is).

There were no rape crisis centers at that time. All the cops did was take her to the hospital and give her some clothes. The doc advised her to "put it behind her."

Mom comes up pregnant. She's already traumatized by the assault and has screaming nightmares every night. She's taking meds to calm her down that do no good.

Stepfather is a prince of a guy. He says he'll do whatever she wants. if she wants to have the kid, he'll raise it and say nothing. Mom points out the kid may not be white. She doesn't even know WHOSE it is, her husband's or one of her assailants.

She wants an abortion. She just wants it over. She's still traumatized from my adoption. (Said years later, by the way, that this was more agonizing than the abortion. Not every woman feels guilty. Check out imnotsorry.com)

This is illegal. They look all over. Finally dad finds a doc who will admit mom and do a "medical" D&C.

It's over, mom doesn't have to relive the horror for another nine months, never give birth in more pain and blood, go through another adoption horror, or endure the sneers of her neighbors.

She can go on with her life.

She took a lot of heat from my grandmother, who is on your side of the fence. Here's mom's reply: "I had enough taken away from me that night. One of the things was an egg stolen out of my body. It wasn't my "child" it was more theft of my body and somebody's leavings inside me."

the person best qualified to make this decision is the person who will have to endure the consequences, good or bad. I think mom was the most important person here. She's a person, not an incubator, and she'd been forced to give up enough. She endured the trauma the rest of her life. If ending part of that horror, in whatever way, made that the least bit easier, I'm all for it.

I don't think rape victims should have to go up in front of a judge, probably a man, who will decide if "he thinks" this is the best for her. So many rape victims can't face the court system in a sexual assault case as it is.

I think abortion is sometimes the lesser of two evils.

I don't think I have the right to decide something so personal for someone else.

I don't think anyone else does either.

 

[jed turtle]

that is a very sad story. no telling what kind of life that child may have had, nor whether your mother might have become a stronger person if she had gone ahead with the pregnancy. the existence of laws will not stop the existence of murder, but laws do restrain our immediate impulses in most cases...

 

[fruit loop]

Oh, gag, JT!

My mother had endured enough horror in her life and didn't need any more to "Toughen Her Up" especially suit self righteous prigs. She was a lot more worthy of happiness in her life than most of the self-righteous, sanctimonious church freaks who would sit in judgement on her but have never had anything bad happen to them in their lives.....like losing a child to the forced adoption mill, another to a drunk driver, and enduring a gang rape. (Just a few here)

At the end of her life, mom was the county midwife (the nearest hospital being sixty miles away) and a hospice nurse for the terminally ill. After a neighbor's home burned down (the nearest fire department being forty miles away), she went to Dallas and Fort Worth pounding on rich businessmen's doors until she raised enough donations to buy a fire truck and organize a volunteer fire department for the local community.

She died in car accident in 1990. I'm sorry she's not alive while so many sanctimonious, self righteous pigs who have never had anything bad happen to them in their lives go right on breathing.