GUNS/RLTD Virginia Democrats Reportedly Beginning Effort To Confiscate Lawfully Owned Firearms

Old Reliable

Veteran Member
A coward dies many death the brave dies only once.

Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither-
Benjamin Franklin
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
Ahhh keyboard bravery, gotta love. I've been there and done that, doubtful you have. Dipshits like you who dont think, and just act will just prove their points. Best of luck there big man. As for me I choose the ground and time of my fight, not my enemy. Period.

This is how come I stay in Calif. I was born and raised here, I own a home here, I will stay to do what I can.
 

Switchback

Veteran Member
VA-ALERT: Reminder: VCDL president to speak at the God, Family, Guns rally on Monday!

Tomorrow, Monday, December 9, I am an invited speaker at the "God, Family, Guns" rally on the Capitol steps in Richmond at 1 pm! The rally is being put on by the Virginia First Foundation. The location is at 10th and Bank streets. This is the same location where VCDL's Lobby Day rally will be on January 20, 2020.

Radio host, Scott Lee, of the "Lee Brothers Show", will also be speaking, as will others. Scott is a solid defender of the Second Amendment and has been promoting gun rights on his radio show for years.

We're hoping for a strong turnout! The rally is from 1 pm to 2 pm. If you work in Richmond, take a late lunch and stand with us at the Capitol!
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member


Virginia Gun Sanctuary Showdown: Words on Paper? →


Fairfax County Virginia 2nd Amendment Sanctuary County Speech: Civil War
Posted on December 9, 2019 by Wes Rhinier

A video worth watching:

R/T 6:15
Attorney General’s response to 2nd Amendment sanctuary resolutions: ‘Gun safety laws will be followed’
Virginia is going to get real sporty come the first of the year.

Subscribe to NC Renegade Posts via Email

b33e319a35394524d04a0eb4e48322e6
Arrest Northam says:

December 9, 2019 at 6:13 pm

Whoever in Virginia is involved in unconstitutional official acts (Governor Northam, Delegates introducing such unconstitutional bills, etc.) should be arrested and charged for the crimes they’re involved in.
Unconstitutional Official Acts
The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land.
The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be In agreement.
It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail.
This is succinctly stated as follows:
The General rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it’s enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.
An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed.
Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.
Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it…..
A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one.
An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law.
Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the lend, it is superseded thereby.
No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/16amjur2nd.htm

Reply
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Milk-maid... this is how we understand Constitutional Law. And indeed, for a long time it worked that way.

Today, with activist courts, runamok politicians greedy for total power & control (through any means possible, including corruption and crimes, and false accusations)...

I fear the "Law" may no longer work that way.

The rule of law requires a common understanding of right & wrong; and a general agreement to abide by it; along with the enforcement and judicial aspects. Pretty much the first two are facing extinction - whether Constitutionally supported or not.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
Milk-maid... this is how we understand Constitutional Law. And indeed, for a long time it worked that way.

Today, with activist courts, runamok politicians greedy for total power & control (through any means possible, including corruption and crimes, and false accusations)...

I fear the "Law" may no longer work that way.

The rule of law requires a common understanding of right & wrong
; and a general agreement to abide by it; along with the enforcement and judicial aspects. Pretty much the first two are facing extinction - whether Constitutionally supported or not.
It actually requires a moral people. ..... crickets.... Silence because most young people don't even know what Moral means.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
I see what is more or less is someone quoting Marbury vs. Madison and it has power with the federal courts. Lower courts and elected and appointed officials that blow that off are in trouble. Quoting Marbury vs. Madison in any court filing and presenting it in court as part of your argument will swing the court in your favor, providing it fits your argument with defending your constitutional rights and or provisions
 

hd5574

Veteran Member
Update
www.vcdl.org
Per the VA-Alert (link at top of page)

Last night we added 13 localities to 2A sanctuaries.
We now have 59, which include counties, cities and towns.
Many meetings coming this week.

BEWARE

The gun controllers are now in the crowds and trying to provoke and film the gun owners.
Remain calm and report them to the police!!!!!!
 

Weps

Veteran Member
Interesting that the NRA was worried about a grandfather clause...wtf does it matter if you get to keep your property if , when you die the state gets it anyway?

That's because if it had a grandfather clause, the NRA would be fine with these passing.

It is not a case of "could" but rather it will happen in your state sooner or later. In Georgia, we almost got there last election. If she had won, things would have been done without the legislator approval.

Ain't that the truth, the only thing the Left got here was the governorship, but that didn't stop them from prefiling a bill that's a carbon copy of Virginia's.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Gov. Ralph Northam: Register Your AR-15 with Government or Hand It Over
OREM, UT - FEBRUARY 15: Dordon Brack, aims a semi-automatic AR-15 that is for sale at Good Guys Guns & Range on February 15, 2018 in Orem, Utah. An AR-15 was used in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida. (Photo by George Frey/Getty Images)
George Frey/Getty ImagesAWR Hawkins10 Dec 20191,769
1:43


Gov. Ralph Northam (D) announced Monday his “assault weapons” ban will mean AR-15 owners can either register their guns with the government or hand them over.
The Virginia Mercury reported Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky used a statement to say, “The governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period.”
Yarmosky made clear details on other gun controls will be made known before the start of the 2020 session in which Democrats take charge.
On December 10, 2019, Breitbart News reported dozens of Virginia counties have declared themselves Second Amendment Sanctuaries, vowing not to enforce new gun controls which Democrats intend to pass. CNN reported that the total of number of Second Amendment Sanctuary counties in Virginia exceeds 40.
Gov. Northam made clear his intention to launch a war on guns just days after the Democrats won legislative victories. He has a number of gun control plans in addition to an “assault weapons” ban.

 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Ought to be interesting to see how many comply with registration. I think the results in NY were well under 1% compliance...

Summerthyme
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
I won't comply.

Registering them is one step before confiscation. I don't believe Northam is an honest person (grandfathering us PURE BS!!!)

This guy missed his calling and should have worked for Hitler's SS
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB


Virginia Gun Sanctuary Showdown: Words on Paper? →


Fairfax County Virginia 2nd Amendment Sanctuary County Speech: Civil War
Posted on December 9, 2019 by Wes Rhinier

A video worth watching:

R/T 6:15
Attorney General’s response to 2nd Amendment sanctuary resolutions: ‘Gun safety laws will be followed’
Virginia is going to get real sporty come the first of the year.

Subscribe to NC Renegade Posts via Email

b33e319a35394524d04a0eb4e48322e6
Arrest Northam says:

December 9, 2019 at 6:13 pm

Whoever in Virginia is involved in unconstitutional official acts (Governor Northam, Delegates introducing such unconstitutional bills, etc.) should be arrested and charged for the crimes they’re involved in.
Unconstitutional Official Acts
The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land.
The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be In agreement.
It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail.
This is succinctly stated as follows:
The General rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it’s enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.
An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed.
Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.
Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it…..
A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one.
An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law.
Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the lend, it is superseded thereby.
No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.
Unconstitutional Official Acts

Reply
Thanks for posting this, even Madame Charman Bulova seemed impressed with his speech. She's a democrat by the way. And a lame duck.
On the FFx Co. board of directors, two county commissioners will support 2nd A sanctuary status for the county. Daniel Storck from Mount Vernon district (where we live) and Pat Herrity of the Springfield district. They are the only 2 Republicans on the board of supervisors. There are at least 4 new supervisors from when I was working in that realm, McKay is a flaming liberal a la Petey Buttigeg LGBTQabcde, Penelope Gross is a die hard liberal (and needs hair club for men/women desperately!!!). Ms Hudgins is also died in the wool lib but a really nice (and funny) lady. McKay is a leftie who's under investigation by the VA state police for a home he bought at a really, REALLY good price (can you say illegal campaign contribution?) Foust is probably the most dangerous liberal on the board-he's been endorsed by anti gun groups.

It's going to be a fight here. Lefties are entrenched here but we'll do our best.

Also, I believe Prince William county votes on the 2A sanctuary issue tonight. Corey Stewart was county chairman there and he's a hardcore Trump fan with lots of friends county wide. Hope it passes there!
 

mudlogger

Veteran Member
Floyd county just passed theirs. Some recent yahoo was against and the boos, they were substantial. They were nicer to the few little old ladies against it and politely clapped. Sic semper tyrannis was mentioned several times to great cheers.
 

Repairman-Jack

Veteran Member
Gov. Ralph Northam: Register Your AR-15 with Government or Hand It Over
OREM, UT - FEBRUARY 15: Dordon Brack, aims a semi-automatic AR-15 that is for sale at Good Guys Guns & Range on February 15, 2018 in Orem, Utah. An AR-15 was used in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida. (Photo by George Frey/Getty Images)
George Frey/Getty ImagesAWR Hawkins10 Dec 20191,769
1:43


Gov. Ralph Northam (D) announced Monday his “assault weapons” ban will mean AR-15 owners can either register their guns with the government or hand them over.
The Virginia Mercury reported Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky used a statement to say, “The governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period.”
Yarmosky made clear details on other gun controls will be made known before the start of the 2020 session in which Democrats take charge.
On December 10, 2019, Breitbart News reported dozens of Virginia counties have declared themselves Second Amendment Sanctuaries, vowing not to enforce new gun controls which Democrats intend to pass. CNN reported that the total of number of Second Amendment Sanctuary counties in Virginia exceeds 40.
Gov. Northam made clear his intention to launch a war on guns just days after the Democrats won legislative victories. He has a number of gun control plans in addition to an “assault weapons” ban.

Register, hand them over....Are they sure there is not a 3rd option?
 

Weps

Veteran Member
Ahhh keyboard bravery, gotta love. I've been there and done that, doubtful you have. Dipshits like you who dont think, and just act will just prove their points. Best of luck there big man. As for me I choose the ground and time of my fight, not my enemy. Period.

It's all good Trouble, everything has a time and place, someone had to be on the field at Lexington and Concord.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member

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Huge night for gun owners, 18 new sanctuaries, including in Prince William County, City of Chesapeake, and Spotsylvania County! There are now a total of 77 sanctuaries across Virginia. Tomorrow night is going to have another large number of localities considering resolutions!

To check the full list and count of sanctuaries, remember to just go to the VCDL.org main page.

Here are the new sanctuaries on Tuesday night:
  • Bath County - Unanimous
  • Big Stone Gap
  • Bluefield
  • Caroline County - 600+ in attendance
  • Chesapeake - unanimous! Massive turnout well over 1,300 people
  • Cumberland County
  • Floyd County - 5 to 0 - packed house!
  • Greene County
  • Henrico County - 3 to 2
  • James City County - Unanimous
  • Martinsville
  • Nelson County - 4 to 1 - overflow crowd
  • Prince George County
  • Prince William County - 6 to 2, massive crowd - past 1,000
  • Smyth County - Unanimous - 1,100 or so in attendance
  • Spotsylvania County - unanimous - massive, massive crowd - way past 1,000
  • Strasburg
  • Warren County - unanimous - well over 1,000 in attendance
These localities didn't pass a resolution for various reasons:

Fredericksburg rejected the resolution. Very low turnout. I think everyone was
at the Spotsylvania meeting.

Lynchburg failed to pass their resolution by one vote: 3 to 4. May reconsider in January.

Newport News did not take any action but heard from a room full of people. If this is to pass, we need to massively overflow their meeting room next time.

Waynesboro to vote on their resolution in January after hearing from a standing-room-only crowd on Tuesday.

Winchester had 75 to 100 with GSL stickers in the chambers and more in the hallway. 10 speakers, all pro-gun. City Council went into closed session afterwards, but no resolution and no vote tonight. We'll have to see what they do next.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
Just to make it clear... it's not 77 counties. Some of this number is comprised of individual cities too.

Actual counties, I'm not sure of the number.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Virginia has a process that is similar to recall, but it is not listed here as a recall state because its process, while requiring citizen petitions, calls for a recall trial rather than an election. In Virginia, after a petition containing the required number of signatures is verified, a circuit court decides whether a Virginia official will be removed from office. In the recall states, the voters decide in an election.


Recall of State Officials
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Seems like passing things that are blatantly unconstitutional ought to be sufficient grounds for a recall.

Kathleen
On the surface what you say is rather common sense. The devil is in the details or rather the understanding of those details. For liberals, blatantly unconstitutional is nothing more than "common sense".
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I believe Frederick Co is tonight. Winchester might hold off a decision until they see what the county commissioners decide.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Good question! I'm close enough there, to be familiar with and care about "collateral damage" but no longer close enough to pay close attention. For the last 10 years, I'd say there has been quite an influx of the demographic that would support the whole slate of Progressive agenda crap. In fact, they were specifically courted by the Economic Development Council - not as tourists; rather residents. But that "foothold" is still rather tenuous, IMO. The "old guard" are still there; meeting in backrooms; and quietly run things in a reasonably sane - if still corrupt - manner.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
From VCDL.org
"I forgot to add Colonial Heights to the sanctuary list last night. We are at 78 sanctuaries now."
 

homecanner1

Veteran Member
I believe the tally is 78, this email was earlier in the day

8a464781-ca6d-4a9c-a7ee-f3a34dff5797.jpg
Huge night for gun owners, 18 new sanctuaries, including in Prince William County, City of Chesapeake, and Spotsylvania County! There are now a total of 77 sanctuaries across Virginia. Tomorrow night is going to have another large number of localities considering resolutions!

To check the full list and count of sanctuaries, remember to just go to the VCDL.org main page.

Here are the new sanctuaries on Tuesday night:
  • Bath County - Unanimous
  • Big Stone Gap
  • Bluefield
  • Caroline County - 600+ in attendance
  • Chesapeake - unanimous! Massive turnout well over 1,300 people
  • Cumberland County
  • Floyd County - 5 to 0 - packed house!
  • Greene County
  • Henrico County - 3 to 2
  • James City County - Unanimous
  • Martinsville
  • Nelson County - 4 to 1 - overflow crowd
  • Prince George County
  • Prince William County - 6 to 2, massive crowd - past 1,000
  • Smyth County - Unanimous - 1,100 or so in attendance
  • Spotsylvania County - unanimous - massive, massive crowd - way past 1,000
  • Strasburg
  • Warren County - unanimous - well over 1,000 in attendance
These localities didn't pass a resolution for various reasons:

Fredericksburg rejected the resolution. Very low turnout. I think everyone was at the Spotsylvania meeting.

Lynchburg failed to pass their resolution by one vote: 3 to 4. May reconsider in January.

Newport News did not take any action but heard from a room full of people. If this is to pass, we need to massively overflow their meeting room next time.

Waynesboro to vote on their resolution in January after hearing from a standing-room-only crowd on Tuesday.

Winchester had 75 to 100 with GSL stickers in the chambers and more in the hallway. 10 speakers, all pro-gun. City Council went into closed session afterwards, but no resolution and no vote tonight. We'll have to see what they do next.
I have photos of these events on the VCDL.org main page. The majority of these meetings were either close to 1,000 or well over 1,000 attending! I would say that Prince William County, Spotsylvania County, and the City of Chesapeake were breathtaking. If you haven't been to one of these events, you don't know what you are missing. The energy is incredible.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IS SO IMPORTANT. I am chest-thumping proud of all of you who are turning out at these meetings! You are in the fight and you are absolutely making a difference! But we must keep these jaw-dropping turnouts going across the Commonwealth! They are changing the political landscape in Virginia, trust me on this.

Oh, and if these events are jaw-dropping, just wait until Lobby Day on 1/20/2020.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I believe the tally is 78, this email was earlier in the day

8a464781-ca6d-4a9c-a7ee-f3a34dff5797.jpg
Huge night for gun owners, 18 new sanctuaries, including in Prince William County, City of Chesapeake, and Spotsylvania County! There are now a total of 77 sanctuaries across Virginia. Tomorrow night is going to have another large number of localities considering resolutions!

To check the full list and count of sanctuaries, remember to just go to the VCDL.org main page.

Here are the new sanctuaries on Tuesday night:
  • Bath County - Unanimous
  • Big Stone Gap
  • Bluefield
  • Caroline County - 600+ in attendance
  • Chesapeake - unanimous! Massive turnout well over 1,300 people
  • Cumberland County
  • Floyd County - 5 to 0 - packed house!
  • Greene County
  • Henrico County - 3 to 2
  • James City County - Unanimous
  • Martinsville
  • Nelson County - 4 to 1 - overflow crowd
  • Prince George County
  • Prince William County - 6 to 2, massive crowd - past 1,000
  • Smyth County - Unanimous - 1,100 or so in attendance
  • Spotsylvania County - unanimous - massive, massive crowd - way past 1,000
  • Strasburg
  • Warren County - unanimous - well over 1,000 in attendance
These localities didn't pass a resolution for various reasons:

Fredericksburg rejected the resolution. Very low turnout. I think everyone was at the Spotsylvania meeting.

Lynchburg failed to pass their resolution by one vote: 3 to 4. May reconsider in January.

Newport News did not take any action but heard from a room full of people. If this is to pass, we need to massively overflow their meeting room next time.

Waynesboro to vote on their resolution in January after hearing from a standing-room-only crowd on Tuesday.

Winchester had 75 to 100 with GSL stickers in the chambers and more in the hallway. 10 speakers, all pro-gun. City Council went into closed session afterwards, but no resolution and no vote tonight. We'll have to see what they do next.
I have photos of these events on the VCDL.org main page. The majority of these meetings were either close to 1,000 or well over 1,000 attending! I would say that Prince William County, Spotsylvania County, and the City of Chesapeake were breathtaking. If you haven't been to one of these events, you don't know what you are missing. The energy is incredible.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IS SO IMPORTANT. I am chest-thumping proud of all of you who are turning out at these meetings! You are in the fight and you are absolutely making a difference! But we must keep these jaw-dropping turnouts going across the Commonwealth! They are changing the political landscape in Virginia, trust me on this.

Oh, and if these events are jaw-dropping, just wait until Lobby Day on 1/20/2020.

I thought Prince William county was a huge win too. This morning I heard on local news (WMAL 630 am here in DC) that the PW county board that voted for it was a lame duck session. The new members get sworn in in January and guess what-they're communists/democrats. Even worse, the new board members have said they will put forth a resolution to retract the resolution.
So, the push for other northern VA counties needs to be made and soon. Prince William co. may have been the easiest one in the northern VA area.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member

How Many AR-15s Are In America? The Reason We Don't Know Is Intentional
By Monica Busch
Apr 19, 2018

6e8a5320-5ced-4160-9ee5-1d1f5eeff8c9-getty-925521402.jpg

Spencer Platt/Getty Images News/Getty Images

In order to regulate something, you need to know what you're dealing with. Without information about the size and scope of an issue, you might as well be tackling an invisible beast. Such, it seems, is the case for gun control in the United States. Despite lots of talk and debate around how and to what extent they should be controlled or banned, no one actually knows how many AR-15s are in America, because the law prohibits that the government keep track.

Specifically, the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) prohibits "that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established." FOPA built off of the Gun Control Act of 1968, and the National Firearms Act of 1934 before it, limiting both of their purviews. The older two bills were primarily concerned with tracking gun sales so that the government could collect excise taxes on those sales, or else prevented guns from being sold to so-called "prohibited persons," such as certain criminals and non-citizens. FOPA prohibited the government from linking those gun sales to specific owners — meaning it banned any kind of registry.

Generally, these and other gun-related regulations are enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which isn't allowed to compile any of these figures in an accessible or easily searchable electronic database, according to McClatchy.

John Moore/Getty Images News/Getty Images

"Those numbers don’t exist because there’s no national registry,” Jan Kemp, a spokeswoman for ATF, told the news bureau. "Because by law, we are not allowed to have a national registry."

It's an age-old argument made by those who oppose gun-control, and it has its roots in the Second Amendment, which says, simply: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The amendment has been interpreted in several different ways by several different legal bodies and interest groups, but one key understanding remains: the Second Amendment intends to stop tyranny by way of an armed militia.

With this argument in tow, those who oppose gun control fear that if there were too many national facts and figures concerning who owns guns (and how many) federal officials could feasibly have all the tools they need to seize them. It's a fear easily traceable to the United States' conception as a country.

Advocates for gun control, however, generally seize upon regulating (and often banning) AR-15s in particular. Implementing such a ban would likely be an extremely tricky task. While ATF is not allowed to keep tabs on exactly how many of each types of guns are in the United States, they do publish reports on other types of gun statistics, such as gun manufacturing, as well as gun imports and exports.

According to the most recent ATF commerce report, about 9.4 million guns were manufactured in the United States in 2017 alone. Of those, about 3.7 million were rifles — the most out of the four categories provided. Of course, this doesn't specifically count AR-15s, but it does suggest that AR-15s fall into the most popularly produced firearm category.

One way to estimate how many AR-15s are in the United States would be to tally how many of them were manufactured in a given year, but which also were not ultimately exported. This tactic has been tried before. Slate reported that in 2009, NRA research coordinator Mark Overstreet tallied at least 1,626,525 AR-15-style semi-automatic rifles fit that description. That figured was based on his research and only accounted for AR-15s between 1986 to 2007.
The fact of the matter is that any data concerning the number of AR-15s in America is insufficient, inconclusive, and intentionally hard to come by. Ultimately legalizing and compiling a firearms registry would be no simple task.

However, with mass shootings continuing at a rapid rate — and with so many mass shooters using AR-15s, a registry is certainly a compromise worth discussing.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member

Placeholder Image

ATF tracer Debbie Marshall reaches for a microfilm roll of firearm transaction documents from firearms dealers no longer in business.

The ATF’s Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained
The agency gets more than 1,000 requests for gun traces each day. But most local libraries have more advanced record-keeping systems.

by Dan Friedman
· @dfriedman33

·August 24, 2016

The trace starts with a call or fax to the National Trace Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia. A police department has recovered a gun at a crime scene that was bought at a dealer that has since gone out of business. The inquiring officer turns to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to find out who purchased it, and when.

Federally licensed gun dealers are required to submit sales records to the ATF when they close up shop. The ATF has acquired a massive library of such records: more than 285 million, which it scans and digitizes. Those documents are saved into one of the 25 “data systems” that help the ATF source guns used in crimes.

The physical records, some 20,000 boxes, are then stashed away in the Trace Center building and in the parking lot, filling about 25 shipping containers. They are stored there to keep the floor inside from collapsing.
The good news is that agents usually don’t need to search the boxes by hand. The bad: The computerized system isn’t much better.

The ATF’s record-keeping system lacks certain basic functionalities standard to every other database created in the modern age. Despite its vast size, and importance to crime fighters, it is less sophisticated than an online card catalog maintained by a small town public library.

To perform a search, ATF investigators must find the specific index number of a former dealer, then search records chronologically for records of the exact gun they seek. They may review thousands of images in a search before they find the weapon they are looking for. That’s because dealer records are required to be “non-searchable” under federal law. Keyword searches, or sorting by date or any other field, are strictly prohibited.

The government takes making gun records difficult to search quite seriously. A Government Accountability Office report released August 1 concluded that in two data systems, the ATF did not always comply with “restrictions prohibiting consolidation or centralization” of records. The GAO, which is entrusted with ensuring that federal agencies follow the law, was essentially chiding the ATF for making it a bit easier for its hundreds of investigators to do their jobs.

Alarmed headlines from conservative publications followed. A Fox News pundit falsely claimed the report found the agency had “a list of every gun owner and every gun owned.”

Congress imposes conflicting directives on the ATF. The agency is required to trace guns, but it must use inefficient procedures and obsolete technology. Lawmakers in effect tell the agency to do a job, but badly.

At this point, you likely have some questions. The Trace is here to help.
Why are there so many dang boxes of records anyway?

Until very recently, gun dealers were prohibited from using electronic, cloud-based computing systems unless the ATF granted them specific permission to do so. As a result, many records are on index cards, water-stained paper, or, in some instances, even toilet paper and napkins.
What happens when the ATF acquires a box of records?

Investigators scan and save them as digital image files. They are like online piles of paper, or PDFs, arranged by one field only.
How can a database be “non-searchable”?

Trick question: The system can’t really be considered a database. (There is a reason the ATF uses the phrase “data systems” instead). There is no ability to search the text of a file, and no effort is made to tag files with identifiers that could later be used to sort and search. “We compare it to an electronic card catalog system, where records are digitally imaged, but not optimized for character recognition,” ATF spokesman Corey Ray says.
Why is the ATF required to trace guns, but with crappy technology?

The 1968 Gun Control Act gave the ATF authority to regulate federally licensed gun dealers. In 1978, the ATF tried to make dealers report most sales each quarter. The National Rifle Association and other groups denounced the plan, and lobbied to kill the reporting requirement. Congress did as the gun lobby requested, blocking the quarterly report proposal and reducing the ATF’s budget by $5 million: the amount the agency had sought to update its computer capacity.

“From that point on, if you even said ‘computer’ at ATF headquarters, everybody ran and hid in a closet,” says William Vizzard, a former ATF special agent and emeritus professor of criminal justice at California State University, Sacramento.

The war on searchable technology continued. In 1986, Congress enacted the Firearms Protection Act, which bans the ATF from creating a registry of guns, gun owners or gun sales.

Congress also put a rider barring the agency from “consolidation or centralization” of gun dealers’ records in every spending bill affecting the agency from 1979 through 2011, then made the prohibition permanent, under law.
Why can’t the ATF use technology 10-year-olds have in their phones?

First comes keyword searches, and the next thing you know, you have national gun registries.

That, at least, is the rationale for the law that prevents the ATF from creating a searchable system. Gun rights groups argue that once the government has a list of firearms, it could use that list to confiscate weapons from private citizens.
How did the ATF skirt the rules meant to guard against searchability?

Many ATF traces are conducted on guns sold by active dealers. The ATF gives servers to these dealers, upon request, so that they can upload sales records. This saves both parties time: The ATF can conduct a trace without contacting a dealer in every instance, and the dealer need not spend time handling ATF requests.

When a dealer with a server goes out of business, it hands over that server to the ATF. From 2000 to 2016, the ATF consolidated all the data from these defunct servers into one. But the agency is not permitted to combine records in this fashion, the GAO determined.

Chastened, the ATF deleted all 252 million records on the server.
What is the consequence of restricting the ATF’s use of data?

The ATF processes a high number of trace requests: 373,349 in 2015. The agency says a trace takes on average four to seven business days to complete.

If not for the ban on consolidating data into a searchable system, the ATF could create a database that allows it to immediately check the sales history of any gun used in a crime. The National Trace Center itself, and its 350 employees, likely would be obsolete if the ATF were permitted to create a modern, searchable database.

The ATF says the current system is adequate. “ATF considers the process in place efficient, especially when you consider that most urgent traces are completed within hours — if not minutes — of the request,” Ray says.

But Vizzard, the former ATF special agent, says that by shackling the agency, Congress hinders police investigations. “It’s a 1950s record-keeping system in 2016,” he said. “It’s as though your bank still didn’t have a computer.”

[Photo: AP/Cliff Owen]
 
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