CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

Zahra

Veteran Member
Question for rondaben ….

The Chinese are claiming that they're curing patients in critical "near death" condition now by administering plasma from previously recovered Covid-19 patients.

Ok, that's a valid method that might work....
However, I seem to recall from my university days (back in the dark ages) that RNA virus replication is error prone, meaning there's going to be substantial amount of mutation going on from patient #1 onwards.

So, plasma taken from patient #53 (for example) with antibodies against that particular strain might have little to no effect on the evolved virus presented in a patient further along the evolutionary chain. Am I right, or wrong about this?
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Question for rondaben ….

The Chinese are claiming that they're curing patients in critical "near death" condition now by administering plasma from previously recovered Covid-19 patients.

Ok, that's a valid method that might work....
However, I seem to recall from my university days (back in the dark ages) that RNA virus replication is error prone, meaning there's going to be substantial amount of mutation going on from patient #1 onwards.

So, plasma taken from patient #53 (for example) with antibodies against that particular strain might have little to no effect on the evolved virus presented in a patient further along the evolutionary chain. Am I right, or wrong about this?

Right as rain. I think they are administering a drug called Hopium. Some other medically minded welcome to point out errors in my thinking.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My DM contracted strep throat about 1930 or so as a child. It went into scarlet fever, and then rheumatic fever that affected her heart valves, giving her rheumatic heart disease. Had several heart valve operations later in life, and chronic congestive heart failure in the end.

Again, no antibiotics back then. Strep throat could be a killer.

Not arguing but there is a slight misconception in that statement.

Antibiotics was invented in 1929, and was used widely by 1930. However, many to most people didn't seek out a doctor, until it was nearly to late to do anything about it. There are probably two reasons for that. 1) lack of knowledge of it's existence 2) money, after all it was during the height of the depression.

Just saying.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
BNO Newsroom‏Verified account @BNODesk 4h4 hours ago

BNO Newsroom Retweeted BNO Newsroom

Hubei province announcement: - Residential communities on lockdown - Residents should not go out unless it's necessary - Use of private vehicles is banned - Non-essential public places closed - Mass gatherings banned - Supermarkets, pharmacies and other essential places are open
 

TxGal

Day by day
Not arguing but there is a slight misconception in that statement.

Antibiotics was invented in 1929, and was used widely by 1930. However, many to most people didn't seek out a doctor, until it was nearly to late to do anything about it. There are probably two reasons for that. 1) lack of knowledge of it's existence 2) money, after all it was during the height of the depression.

Just saying.

Interesting, thanks! She was born in 1922, I was just guessing on the exact year she contracted it. Certainly could have been earlier, but no way of me finding out.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Trump doesn't even try to make a good liar. I don't know what he knows, but he knows full well that warm weather is not going to kill it. COVID19 is spreading in Singapore. THE TEMPERATURE IN SINGAPORE RIGHT NOW IS 80 DEGREES.
Singapore has a constant amount of sunlight - about 12 hours - year round.
In Alabama, by the first week of April there will be 13 hours of sunlight which will continue to increase until summer solstice.
It may have less to do with temperature and more to do with sunlight (UV)
And perhaps the amount of natural vitamin D produced
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My DM contracted strep throat about 1930 or so as a child. It went into scarlet fever, and then rheumatic fever that affected her heart valves, giving her rheumatic heart disease. Had several heart valve operations later in life, and chronic congestive heart failure in the end.

Again, no antibiotics back then. Strep throat could be a killer.
Cousin went through same progression, died young, except she got antibiotics for her
strep throat and did not take full course, stopped after a couple days once feeling better.

Lesson; always take full course of antibiotics as directed, otherwise what of the bug that
was still hanging on will be the toughest and nastiest and it'll come back w/ a vengeance.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

krf248

Inactive
The price of beef at the local butcher shop has tripled. The owner is an honorable man so I didn't have to ask why. Small businesses tend to react to economic pressures faster than the franchises. The time to prep up was yesterday, whether the virus hits us hard or not, the consequences are here
 

EMICT

Veteran Member
Singapore has a constant amount of sunlight - about 12 hours - year round.
In Alabama, by the first week of April there will be 13 hours of sunlight which will continue to increase until summer solstice.
It may have less to do with temperature and more to do with sunlight (UV)
And perhaps the amount of natural vitamin D produced
Agreed. Singapore also has a population density factor that many of us here in the US don't have outside of of NYC, LA, and other extremely large metropolitan areas.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
The price of beef at the local butcher shop has tripled. The owner is an honorable man so I didn't have to ask why. Small businesses tend to react to economic pressures faster than the franchises. The time to prep up was yesterday, whether the virus hits us hard or not, the consequences are here
Where is "here"?!

Summerthyme
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
To Tame Coronavirus, Mao-Style Social Control Blankets China

SHANGHAI — China has flooded cities and villages with battalions of neighborhood busybodies, uniformed volunteers and Communist Party representatives to carry out one of the biggest social control campaigns in history.
The goal: to keep hundreds of millions of people away from everyone but their closest kin.

The nation is battling the coronavirus outbreak with a grass-roots mobilization reminiscent of Mao-style mass crusades not seen in China in decades, essentially entrusting front line epidemic prevention to a supercharged version of a neighborhood watch.

Housing complexes in some cities have issued the equivalents of paper hall passes to regulate how often residents leave their homes. Apartment buildings have turned away their own tenants if they have come from out of town. Train stations block people from entering cities if they cannot prove they live or work there. In the countryside, villages have been gated off with vehicles, tents and other improvised barriers.

Despite China’s arsenal of high-tech surveillance tools, the controls are mainly enforced by hundreds of thousands of workers and volunteers, who check residents’ temperature, log their movements, oversee quarantines and — most important — keep away outsiders who might carry the virus.

Residential lockdowns of varying strictness — from checkpoints at building entrances to hard limits on going outdoors — now cover at least 760 million people in China, or more than half the country’s population, according to a New York Times analysis of government announcements in provinces and major cities. Many of these people live far from the city of Wuhan, where the virus was first reported and which the government sealed off last month.

Throughout China, neighborhoods and localities have issued their own rules about residents’ comings and goings, which means the total number of affected people may be even higher. Policies vary widely, leaving some places in a virtual freeze and others with few strictures.

China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, has called for an all-out “people’s war” to tame the outbreak. But the restrictions have prevented workers from returning to factories and businesses, straining China’s giant economy. And with local officials exercising such direct authority over people’s movements, it is no surprise that some have taken enforcement to extremes.

Li Jing, 40, an associate professor of sociology at Zhejiang University in the eastern city of Hangzhou, was almost barred from taking her husband to a hospital recently after he choked on a fish bone during dinner. The reason? Her neighborhood allows only one person per family to leave the house, every other day.

“Once the epidemic was disclosed, the central government put huge pressure on local officials,” Professor Li said. “That triggered competition between regions, and local governments turned from overly conservative to radical.”

“Even when the situation is relieved or if the mortality rate turns out not to be high, the government machine is unable to change direction or tune down,” she added.

China’s prevention efforts are being led by its myriad neighborhood committees, which typically serve as a go-between for residents and the local authorities. Supporting them is the government’s “grid management” system, which divides the country into tiny sections and assigns people to watch over each, ensuring a tight grip over a large population.

Zhejiang Province, on China’s southeastern seaboard, has a population of nearly 60 million and has enlisted 330,000 “grid workers.” Hubei Province, whose capital is Wuhan, has deployed 170,000. The southern province of Guangdong has called upon 177,000, landlocked Sichuan has 308,000 and the megacity of Chongqing has 118,000

The authorities are also combining enormous manpower with mobile technology to track people who may have been exposed to the virus. China’s state-run cellular providers allow subscribers to send text messages to a hotline that generates a list of provinces they have recently visited.

At a high-speed rail station in the eastern city of Yiwu this past week, workers in hazmat suits demanded that passengers send the text messages that show their location data before being allowed to leave.

An app developed by a state-run maker of military electronics lets Chinese citizens enter their name and national ID number and be told whether they may have come in contact, on a plane, train or bus, with a carrier of the virus.

It is too early to say whether China’s strategy has contained the outbreak. With large numbers of new infections being reported every day, the government has clear reasons for minimizing human contact and domestic travel. But experts say that in epidemics, overbearing measures can backfire, scaring infected people into hiding and making the outbreak harder to control.

“Public health relies on public trust,” said Alexandra L. Phelan, a specialist in global health law at Georgetown University. “These community-level quarantines and the arbitrary nature in which they’re being imposed and tied up with the police and other officials is essentially making them into punitive actions — a coercive action rather than a public health action.”

In Zhejiang, one of China’s most developed provinces and home to Alibaba and other technology companies, people have written on social media about being denied entry to their own apartments in Hangzhou, the provincial capital. Coming home from out of town, they say, they were asked to produce documents from landlords and employers or be left on the street.

For Nada Sun, who was visiting family in Wenzhou, a coastal city in Zhejiang, a health scare turned into a mandatory quarantine.

When Ms. Sun, 29, complained of tightness in her chest this month, her mother told her to go to the hospital. She did not have a high fever, yet the hospital gave her a battery of checks. All came back negative for the virus.

Even so, when she returned to her apartment, she was told that she would be quarantined for two weeks. She was also added to a group on the WeChat messaging app with a local Communist Party secretary and other volunteers in which she has to submit her temperature and location twice a day.

“I’m worried they have too much information,” Ms. Sun said.

The lockdowns are not necessarily oppressive. Many people in China have been happy to wall themselves off, ordering groceries online and working from home if they can. Some neighborhood officials act with a humane touch.

Bob Huang, a Chinese-born American living in northern Zhejiang, said the volunteers at his complex had helped chase down a man who stayed out overnight to drink, in violation of rules about how often people can step outside. Yet they also delivered food from McDonald’s to a quarantined family.

Mr. Huang, 50, has been able to dodge the restrictions by using a special pass from the property manager, and he has been driving around delivering protective face masks to friends. Some building complexes don’t let him in. Others take down his information.

A nearby village took a less orthodox approach.

“They always start asking questions in the local dialect, and if you can respond in the local dialect, you are allowed to go in,” Mr. Huang said. Unable to speak the dialect, he had to wait, though the villagers were friendly. They gave him a folding chair, offered him a cigarette and didn’t ask for an ID.

Some parts of China have imposed other, often severe policies for fending off the epidemic.

Hangzhou has barred pharmacies from selling analgesics to force people with symptoms to seek treatment at hospitals. The eastern city of Nanjing requires anybody who takes a cab to show ID and leave contact information. Yunnan Province wants all public places to display QR codes that people must scan with their phones whenever they enter or exit.

Many places have banned large gatherings. The police in Hunan Province this month destroyed a mahjong parlor where they found more than 20 people playing the tile game.

With local governments deciding such policies largely on their own, China has become a vast patchwork of fiefs.
“It can be quite haphazard,” said Zhou Xun, a historian of modern China at the University of Essex in England. “A perfect plan on paper often turns into makeshift solutions locally.”

Officials seem to recognize that some local authorities have gone too far. This month, Chen Guangsheng, the deputy secretary general of Zhejiang’s provincial government, called it “inappropriate” that some places had employed “simple and crude practices,” like locking people into their homes to enforce quarantines.

Zhang Yingzi’s apartment complex in Hangzhou initially forbade anybody who had been out of town from entering. Later, the ban was adjusted to cover only people coming from Hubei Province and the Zhejiang cities of Wenzhou and Taizhou, both of which have had many cases of the new virus.

“Banning everyone from out of town wasn’t realistic,” said Ms. Zhang, 29, an accountant. “There are so many of them, after all. Some needed to come back for work.”

Still, many in China are uneasy about loosening up virus controls too quickly.

Zhang Shu, 27, worries that her parents and neighbors are becoming cavalier about the virus, even as workers drive around her village near Wenzhou with loudspeakers telling people to stay home.

“Ordinary people are slowly starting to feel that the situation isn’t so horrible anymore,” Ms. Zhang said. “They are restless.”

Alexandra Stevenson contributed reporting from Hong Kong. Wang Yiwei and Lin Qiqing contributed research.
They are still in contact with each other and moving about. They will never get it under control that way.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
While in total agreement with the upper portion still in black ink, I disagree with the portion in red ink.

My reason: Two things are totally different between our two countries. 1) type of government Totalitarian vs (still viewed as) Republic. Under the Totalitarian system they can do things we can't and won't even try. Quarantine New York? Not going to happen. 2) Different Cultures. While having different cultures doesn't mean people are dumb, it does mean they view and react different. In China the culture is submissive to authority, meaning if the government/authority tells them to do something, they will. In the US (and you don't have to be Southern for this) there are a lot of rebels that won't do, or submit to, authority, just because.

The 2A disagreement in VA is an example.
and unlike the Chinese, we have the means to express our rebel nature in ways that makes governments weak in the knees.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
OT but I was quarantined by the health department in 1988. My DD who was 15 months at the time had the measles. She was scheduled for her shots the following month- a month too late. Measles were practically unheard of at the time. The lady at the health department blamed it on illegals because they were afraid to get vax'd for fear of deportation. We had a neon orange or pink (can't remember which) sign on the door to our apartment. It literally said "QUARANTINE". My Mom would bring groceries to us because she really didn't care. All she knew was her grandbaby was sick. I think it lasted 10 days.
It became a huge outbreak in the L.A. area. Here's an article about it:

I Was on the Front Line of L.A.'s Last Measles Outbreak
Hopefully your mom didn't pass it along.....I am thinking not, but who knows.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
"Florida Department of Health cites patient confidentiality law as reason not to inform public


What’s going on with the coronavirus in Florida?

Sorry, you can’t find out. It’s a secret.

It doesn’t sound like it should be a secret, but according to the Florida Department of Health, it has to be a secret.

“We are bound by a specific statute and can’t release the information,” explained Alberto Moscoso, the communications director for the Florida Department of Health.
That is BS.... they can release all the data they want. They just can't tell us names and addresses. This is all about money. they don't want Disneyland shut down as it will cost Florida billions in revenue for the government.

Cowards!
 

Capt. Eddie

Veteran Member
The price of beef at the local butcher shop has tripled. The owner is an honorable man so I didn't have to ask why. Small businesses tend to react to economic pressures faster than the franchises. The time to prep up was yesterday, whether the virus hits us hard or not, the consequences are here
I would find a different butcher. Beef was same price this morning at the small independent local grocery store and was actually down at Sam's a few days ago. Made quite a haul and vacuum packed for the chest freezer. So I would say this is not a widespread problem at this point. YMMV
 

TorahTips

Membership Revoked
Singapore has a constant amount of sunlight - about 12 hours - year round.
In Alabama, by the first week of April there will be 13 hours of sunlight which will continue to increase until summer solstice.
It may have less to do with temperature and more to do with sunlight (UV)
And perhaps the amount of natural vitamin D produced

I personally believe that Trump is following "the plan" of the alphabet agencies regarding potential ELE events. What do you do, for example, if you know that the earth is going to be hit by a massive asteroid? Do you spread panic or tell lies to keep the people calm? If there is a virus that could kill millions, what do you do? Do you panic the sheep or tell the it's going to be OK. If there's nothing that you as a government can do to stop it, the last thing that you want to do is create a situation of civil unrest that you cannot contain. The lest thing to do is to tell the population to go back to sleep. It'll be over soon.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
The price of beef at the local butcher shop has tripled. The owner is an honorable man so I didn't have to ask why. Small businesses tend to react to economic pressures faster than the franchises. The time to prep up was yesterday, whether the virus hits us hard or not, the consequences are here
Wife did a walk through Walmart yesterday..... shelves are still full and anyone she asked, didn't even know about the virus....Not looking good for Georgia.... we may begin to resemble the walking dead this time next year....
 

Cascadians

Leska Emerald Adams
ELE
The Novel Coronavirus, 2019‐nCoV, is Highly Contagious and More Infectious Than Initially Estimated
The novel coronavirus (2019‐nCoV) is a recently emerged human pathogen that has spread widely since January 2020. Initially, the basic reproductive number, R0, was estimated to be 2.2 to 2.7. Here we provide a new estimate of this quantity. We collected extensive individual case reports and estimated key epidemiology parameters, including the incubation period. Integrating these estimates and high‐resolution real‐time human travel and infection data with mathematical models, we estimated that the number of infected individuals during early epidemic double every 2.4 days, and the R0 value is likely to be between 4.7 and 6.6. We further show that quarantine and contact tracing of symptomatic individuals alone may not be effective and early, strong control measures are needed to stop transmission of the virus.

Los Alamos National Laboratory

Prepare to transition to the astral world. Get your affairs in order now. Make all your paperwork simple, obvious and accessible. Tell your loved ones about your love for them.
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
The price of beef at the local butcher shop has tripled. The owner is an honorable man so I didn't have to ask why. Small businesses tend to react to economic pressures faster than the franchises. The time to prep up was yesterday, whether the virus hits us hard or not, the consequences are here


Trump just signed an agreement with China to buy our beef, and we'll buy their cooked chicken.

DO NOT BUY ANY CHICKEN THAT HAS BEEN PRECOOKED, AND DO NOT EAT CHICKEN IN ANY RESTAURANTS.
 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Even if we self quarantine, realistically, how many N95 masks do we need for a year's supply? How many will we need next year if this thing isn't brought under control? Sooner or later, we'll all find ourselves having to break our own quarantines to go out and restock our food supplies. I know for myself that I may be thinking in too short of terms about the virus. I try to plan ahead, but am still hoping that it's not as bad as the predictions are.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Not arguing but there is a slight misconception in that statement.

Antibiotics was invented in 1929, and was used widely by 1930. However, many to most people didn't seek out a doctor, until it was nearly to late to do anything about it. There are probably two reasons for that. 1) lack of knowledge of it's existence 2) money, after all it was during the height of the depression.

Just saying.
Interesting. I had Pneumonia in the early 40's and my mother was told I was one of the first in those parts to get an antibiotic.. And by 1950, everybody knew because people kept running to the doc for a shot for every sniffle. And got mad when he wouldn't do it.
 

Jubilee on Earth

Veteran Member
Up until the last few days, I was finding some good discussions about first-hand reports of the virus and a bit of “underground” information. Take these screenshots, for example. But, if you look at the third photo, it appears as if the censorship Nazis got to Reddit as well. There aren’t many places left on the Internet for unfiltered posts.

Thank God for TB2K!

AC6C4B7F-0509-4702-9EA0-EF40CE27FF05.jpeg
C9D2679D-A63F-4174-BFE4-36C5684EC840.jpeg
2127E5B6-F26F-4CE1-A4C7-934C18BEE1C6.jpeg
 
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