CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic

pops88

Girls with Guns Member
This guy might be a decent neurotoxicologist / economist, and he's certainly on the ball when it comes to tracking this epidemic, but I'm not so sure about his radiography skills. LMFAO at 21.05, at the way he highlighted an area of opacity saying 'ooh, that looks bad' - uh, dude, I'm pretty sure that's a heart. It's sorta supposed to be there! :rofl:

I needed a laugh today. Person's screwed if that opacity disappears.

:prfl:
 

jward

passin' thru
presumably the difference in numbers is that the second grouping of 18 passengers of the Diamond Princess have been added to the total, but not yet shown in the breakdowns. Also note that they've started adding case numbers. Theoretically this should help us match our confirmations to theirs

U.S. Coronavirus Cases
As of February 25, 2020 at 08:25 GMT, there have been 53 confirmed cases of patients infected with the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in the United States:

  • 18 former passengers of the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan.
  • 10 in California
  • 2 in Illinois
  • 1 in Wisconsin
  • 1 in Arizona
  • 1 in Washington state
  • 1 in Massachusetts
  • 1 in Texas
More information on the 17 that do not include Diamond Princess cruise ship evacuee cases is presented in the table below:


StateCasesSexAgeDateCase #LocationSource
Texas​
1​
Feb. 13​
15th​
San Antonio​
Washington​
1
M​
30s​
Jan. 21​
1st​
Snohomish​
[7]
Illinois​
2
F​
60s​
Jan. 24​
2nd​
Chicago​
[8]
M​
60s​
Jan. 30​
6th​
Chicago​
[12]
California​
2
unkn.​
unkn.​
Jan. 26​
3rd,4th​
Orange C., L.A.​
[9]
1
M​
adult​
Jan. 31​
7th​
Santa Clara C.​
[17][18]
1​
F​
unkn.​
Feb. 2​
9th​
Santa Clara C.​
1​
M​
57​
Feb. 2​
10th​
San Benito C.​
1​
F​
57​
Feb. 2​
11th​
San Benito C.​
1​
unkn.​
adult​
Feb. 11​
13th​
San Diego​
1​
Feb. 13​
14th​
1​
Feb. 21​
16th​
Humboldt C.​
1​
Feb. 21​
17th​
Sacramento C.​
Arizona​
1
unkn.​
student​
Jan. 26​
5th​
Maricopa County​
Massachusetts​
1
M​
20s​
Feb. 1​
8th​
Boston​
[16]
Wisconsin​
1
12th​
Madison​

Last updated: February 25, 2020, 08:25 GMT
Total Cases of Coronavirus in the United States


 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
Sounds like Rush is either sicker than we thought, or his new medal has gone to his head. What he is saying is beyond stupid, not because this flu (or "common cold" as he calls it) is physically dangerous, because there's evidence it's not particularly deadly. The danger is in how virulent it is (both pre- and post-symptomatic = high R0). That's important because of the cascading global economic effect it could have. Low savings rates + fragile global supply lines + just-in-time inventories = potential economic disaster on par with or greater than the Great Recession. Is this the eqivalent of the Spanish Flu? I doubt it, but economically it could be a real black swan event.

I think Rush was promoting Pres Trump's position to keep the markets propped up.

Speaking of Pres Trump. I was profoundly disappointed with his tweet downlplaying this disease. I understand it, but I'm still disappointed. He's running for reelection. The main achievement he's been touting is the robust economy and the booming stock market. If the market crashes over the next few months, he IS worried what that does to his reelection chances, and he is worried if that will move Bernie into a winning position. All the things Rush was saying. I wouldn't be surprised if the two had a conversation and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump asked Rush to do what he could to calm the markets.

HD
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
I think Rush is going along with most other media types, even coast to coast am, is down playing it, and they are usually deep into the wooo. only one really talking about it is Tucker Carlson and Glenn Beck. and beck I dont trust to much. I really believe the media is being told to calm the people down, to not excite people.

Exactly. And it's not only to stop that dreaded panic they're all worried, it's to stop Bernie's momentum. I personally think the market tanked because Bernie won so handily in Nevada. A Bernie president is spooking the markets, unfortunately if they spook to early, they're going to bring into being the thing they are worried about. They want to keep Bernie out, they need to keep their money in the market.

HD
 
They certainly know better... I hope the rank and file folk do as well, and decide their attendance accordingly
...

Novel Coronavirus - COVID19 Retweeted

Farnaz Fassihi
@farnazfassihi

·
8h

In Qom religious figures refuse the advice of health ministry to close Shia shrine & instead hold defiant communal prayer. In a city that's epicenter of an epidemic killing people. #Coronavirius #Iran

View: https://twitter.com/farnazfassihi/status/1232051144983240705?s=20
Inbred stupidity.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
(fair use applies)

South Korea to test 200,000 members of church at centre of coronavirus outbreak
Hyonhee Shin, Josh Smith
February 24, 2020 / 8:18 PM / Updated 2 hours ago

SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korean health authorities said on Tuesday they aim to test more than 200,000 members of a church at the centre of a surge of new coronavirus cases that has taken the country’s tally to 893.

South Korea’s fast-spreading outbreak has fuelled fears that the coronavirus, which is believed to have begun in the central Chinese city of Wuhan in December, is developing into a global pandemic.

About 60 percent of South Korea’s cases have been linked to the Shincheonji Church of Jesus, where the first case was reported in a 61-year-old woman, but it is not known how she became infected.

Of 60 new cases reported on Tuesday, 16 were in the southeastern city of Daegu, where the church is located, and 33 from nearby North Gyeongsang Province, the Korea Centres for Disease Control and Prevention said.


South Korea also reported its ninth death from the virus, a patient from a hospital in North Gyeongsang Province.

The leader of the Shincheonji Church said it had agreed to provide authorities with the names of all its members in South Korea, estimated by media at about 215,000 people.

The government would conduct coronavirus tests on all members “as soon as possible” once it got the information, the prime minister’s office said in a statement.

“It is essential to test all of the church members in order to contain the spread of the virus and relieve public anxiety,” the office said.

Vice Health Minister Kim Kang-lip said the priority was to test some 1,300 of the 9,200 members of the Daegu church who are showing symptoms, which he said would be completed by Wednesday.

“We will make utmost efforts with the goal of stabilising the situation in Daegu within four weeks,” he told a briefing, adding that the government would trace all other Daegu citizens having symptoms for isolation and checks.

U.S. WARNING


The church, which has faced public criticism of its handling of the outbreak, asked the government to ensure the personal details of its members did not become public.

The church founder and self-proclaimed messiah, Lee Man-hee, said the church was cooperating with the government to stop the outbreak and beside its members, it would also check people in church training programmes.

“All of these will be implemented on the premise that the government takes steps to protect their personal information,” Lee said in a letter posted online.

North Gyeongsang Province has also seen surges in cases in recent weeks, most from a hospital in Cheongdo, which was designated a “special care zone” along with Daegu last week.

On Tuesday, 21 of the 33 cases from the province were confirmed to have come from a residential home for the disabled people in Chilgok County, also near Daegu, traced to a worker there whose mother is a member of the Shincheonji church in Daegu, Governor Lee Cheol-woo said.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, meanwhile, raised its warning level for South Korea and recommended Americans avoid all nonessential travel to the country, citing the “widespread, ongoing outbreak” of the coronavirus.

The U.S. and South Korean militaries said they were considering scaling back joint training due, in one of the first concrete signs of the virus’ fallout on global U.S. military activities.

South Korean Defence Minister Jeong Kyeong-doo told a news conference in Washington 13 cases had been confirmed in the South Korean armed forces.

More than 400 South Korean citizens were set to return from Israel, which imposed an entry ban and arranged two charter flights after more than two dozen South Korean Catholics who had gone on a pilgrimage there tested positive for the virus.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
presumably the difference in numbers is that the second grouping of 18 passengers of the Diamond Princess have been added to the total, but not yet shown in the breakdowns. Also note that they've started adding case numbers. Theoretically this should help us match our confirmations to theirs

U.S. Coronavirus Cases
As of February 25, 2020 at 08:25 GMT, there have been 53 confirmed cases of patients infected with the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in the United States:

  • 18 former passengers of the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan.
  • 10 in California
  • 2 in Illinois
  • 1 in Wisconsin
  • 1 in Arizona
  • 1 in Washington state
  • 1 in Massachusetts
  • 1 in Texas
More information on the 17 that do not include Diamond Princess cruise ship evacuee cases is presented in the table below:


StateCasesSexAgeDateCase #LocationSource
Texas​
1​
Feb. 13​
15th​
San Antonio​

Washington​
1
M​
30s​
Jan. 21​
1st​
Snohomish​
[7]

Illinois​
2
F​
60s​
Jan. 24​
2nd​
Chicago​
[8]
M​
60s​
Jan. 30​
6th​
Chicago​
[12]

California​
2
unkn.​
unkn.​
Jan. 26​
3rd,4th​
Orange C., L.A.​
[9]
1
M​
adult​
Jan. 31​
7th​
Santa Clara C.​
[17][18]
1​
F​
unkn.​
Feb. 2​
9th​
Santa Clara C.​
1​
M​
57​
Feb. 2​
10th​
San Benito C.​
1​
F​
57​
Feb. 2​
11th​
San Benito C.​
1​
unkn.​
adult​
Feb. 11​
13th​
San Diego​
1​
Feb. 13​
14th​
1​
Feb. 21​
16th​
Humboldt C.​
1​
Feb. 21​
17th​
Sacramento C.​

Arizona​
1
unkn.​
student​
Jan. 26​
5th​
Maricopa County​

Massachusetts​
1
M​
20s​
Feb. 1​
8th​
Boston​
[16]
Wisconsin​
1
12th​
Madison​
Last updated: February 25, 2020, 08:25 GMT

Total Cases of Coronavirus in the United States


Ha! Note that 1 of the cases is in Orange County. I wonder if it is in Costa Mesa or Newport Beach where they are blocking that facility.
 

jward

passin' thru

Community mitigation guidelines to prevent pandemic influenza — United States, 2017 (Current)
Excellent. Thanks! I might be misremembering, but thought we saw a lot come out after Katrina, too. Not only the state and federal rights, but community response teams given authority, as well, at local levels to commandeer resources.
...I hope you and the boy are feeling well these days, btw...
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
A question for our medical types - with washing my hands so frequently, they have become very dry. If I use lotion on them, won't that defeat the purpose of washing them and attract picking up the virus? What do professionals use to keep skin from drying out?
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
I have a new theory. (thanks to the posts about this "church" that brought them to my attention)

THIS VIRUS WAS A BIO WEAPON SPREAD BY THE SHINCHEONJI CHURCH OF SK.

Remember all those videos we saw of people in elevators in China spitting on the buttons, etc. These church members somehow got this virus, maybe one of them worked at the lab and snuck it out, brought it to the wet market and then spread it around the globe. That's why some of the new countries are baffled as to how it got into their countries. A lot of them can trace it to the SK cultists who were tourists. They are deliberately trying to issue in their messiah and bring about the end of the world.

read this twitter feed for more, I formatted it so it's easier to read:

View: https://twitter.com/Spainkiller/status/1231871985862545408

Sam @Spainkiller
4:14 AM · Feb 24, 2020

The Coronavirus Chronicles keep getting weirder and weirder.

You've probably heard about the sudden outbreak of the virus in South Korea. Well, did you also know that this is, in large part, to thank to an actual death cult? It's called #Shincheonji, and it's super scary.

The 31st Coronavirus case in South Korea was a member of the Shincheonji cult. She's considered a superspreader, and it's unclear how she has contracted the virus, as she hasn't traveled to Wuhan, China or even anywhere abroad. Scary.

Members of the Shincheonji cult are ordered not to fear diseases, not to wear face masks, not to miss meetings, and to pray together in close-knit circles. Makes you wonder why, eh?

The cult is almost 36 years old and is lead a by an 88-year old man named Lee Man-hee, who believes he is both Satan and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Much more dangerously, however, is the fact that his teachings are based on his unique interpretation of biblical texts.

I.e. Shincheonji believes that Lee Man-hee is the only one that can accurately interpret the Bible. That has lead to incredibly exclusionary teachings, similar to the '144.000 saints' teaching of the Jehova's Witnesses.

Most dangerously, Lee Man-hee is very eschatology-focused, in such a way that people within Schincheonji have claimed that they are not simply beholding the End Times, but are actively *bringing it about*.

This is also why some believe that they've purposefully spread the virus.

Schincheonji, like other cults, have very deceitful and aggressive ways of recruiting new members. E.g. they pose as a non-denominational christian church and gain your trust after months of 'bible study' before exposing their true teachings and loyalty to Lee Man-hee.

These tactics have resulted in the recruitment of atheists, agnostics and christians, which is why the cult has shown explosive growth in the last decade.

They've grown so massively, in fact, that they've set up lots of cell branches in many countries over the last few years.

This especially is scary considering how much they love to 'stay in touch' with all of their cell branches now that we know how fond they are of pathogens.

We haven't nearly reached peak scaremongering yet, however.

1) The cult has spread similar diseases twice before.
2) Infected members of the cult have been using travel extensively in the past few weeks, including to Israel.
3) They had a branch in Wuhan.
4) They scrubbed that branch off the internet immediately after the Wuhan outbreak.
5) Around half of all Korean Coronavirus cases are tied to the cult.
6) Lee Man-hee claims that his Messianic powers won't be fully manifested until after the apocalypse. Which "is close".
7) Shincheonji has gotten such an obvious bad reputation in South Korea that members have started lying about their affiliation in order to secretly continue their practices + recruitment.
8) As with any cult, it's almost impossible to leave. Apostates are threatened and abused.
9) Oh, yeah, Lee Man-hee also claims he's immortal, by the way. The guy's ****ing insane.

Make no mistake, people: Shincheonji has nothing to do with christianity (they're just using the name of Jesus Christ to further Lee's beliefs) and is the worst kind of cult.

Think I'm making shit up? One of the most popular apps in S. Korea right now is one that alerts you if you're close to one of Shincheonji's 'churches' or other affiliated establishments. Of which there are over 730 across S. Korea alone, btw.
 
Last edited:

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Excellent. Thanks! I might be misremembering, but thought we saw a lot come out after Katrina, too. Not only the state and federal rights, but community response teams given authority, as well, at local levels to commandeer resources.
...I hope you and the boy are feeling well these days, btw...
I got called by the school to pick him up again today. He said he threw up twice. He watched tv drank water, tea and ate 3 cinnamon toasts. No sign of sickness. Next time it's his mother's call as to whether he is really "sick."
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
A question for our medical types - with washing my hands so frequently, they have become very dry. If I use lotion on them, won't that defeat the purpose of washing them and attract picking up the virus? What do professionals use to keep skin from drying out?

Not a medical type but I thought I remembered there were some moisturizers that were also anti-bacterial so I looked it up on Amazon. Obviously we would need one that was anti-viral, not anti bacterial, so I'm not bringing over those links. this one says it kills all germs - so maybe it's anti viral too (?). Active ingredient is Benzalkonium Chloride


Maybe one of the medical professionals can weigh in on the efficacy of this product.

HD

ETA:

Here's another one:

 
Last edited:

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
They are getting ridiculous! Like little children who are plugging their ears and pretending that if they don’t say it, it doesn’t exist. It’s semantics. They can call it whatever word they want, but it’s not going to change the situation.

Unreal. I never thought I’d see the day when a true emergency is at hand and official government and UN organizations are tip-toeing around verbiage so as not to upset the masses.
looks fundamentally clear to me: They want us dead.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
More on that active ingredient:


(fair use applies)
EXCERPT

Introduction

Benzalkonium chloride (BAC) is a major non-alcohol-based active ingredient used for clinical, food line, and domestic household biocides [17,20]. A biocide is a general term for a chemical agent, that may be applied topically in/on living tissue (antiseptic) or on inanimate objects (disinfectant), in order to inhibit growth of (“-static”) or kill (“-cidal”) microorganisms [21].

In communities where people are in constant contact with one another and surfaces covered with microorganisms, hand hygiene is important for infection control [17,28,32,33]. Studies found the use of antiseptic hand sanitizers subdued the prevalence of the common cold, acute respiratory syndromes, gastroenteritis, viral influenza, and more [1,15,18,26,28,29,33]. Similarly, this practice is important in limiting hospital-acquired, or nosocomial, infections between patients and clinical staff by limiting spread of opportunists like Pseudomonas aeruginosa, methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSAs), and vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus (VREs) [4,8,13,17,19,31].

For such preventative measures, there are a variety of hand sanitizers available with alcohol-based and alcohol-free antiseptic agents including ethanol, triclosan and benzalkonium chloride [17,21]. Recently alcohol-free hand sanitizers with triclosan or benzalkonium chloride have been gaining ground due to concerns that ethanol is dries out the skin, is too toxic, and there are frequent cases of intentional ingestion [10,14,17]. Additional concerns involve the extensive use of antiseptics risking the selective survival of antiseptic resistant pathogens, which may be simultaneously selecting for antibiotic resistance [11,22,27,31]. This theory of simultaneous or “cross-selection” suggests that selection of either antiseptic or antibiotic resistance will also select for the other, ultimately resulting in weaker antibacterial therapy and pressure for careful use of both biocides [1,7,27,30]. Despite speculations of evolving resistance mechanisms, BACs are extensively used biocides especially efficacious against enveloped microorganisms [17,20,21].

[SNIP]

Enveloped viruses

Some viruses require a lipid envelope, which serves a dual function: first, as a protective barrier from harsh environmental conditions of pH or desiccation, and secondly as an undesirable target for BAC-based antiseptics [21]. Therefore, enveloped viruses like human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), hepatitis B virus (HBV), influenza virus, measles virus, vaccinia virus, meningopneumonitis virus, Semliki Forest virus, canine distemper virus, rabies virus, fowl laryngotracheitis, and feline pneumonitis virus are all susceptible to BACs [2,21,26].
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
I am calling it:

THIS VIRUS WAS A BIO WEAPON SPREAD BY THE SHINCHEONJI CHURCH OF SK.

Remember all those videos we saw of people in elevators in China spitting on the buttons, etc. These church members somehow got this virus, maybe one of them worked at the lab and snuck it out, brought it to the wet market and then spread it around the globe. That's why some of the new countries are baffled as to how it got into their countries. A lot of them can trace it to the SK cultists who were tourists. They are deliberately trying to issue in their messiah and bring about the end of the world.

read this twitter feed for more, I formatted it so it's easier to read:

View: https://twitter.com/Spainkiller/status/1231871985862545408

Sam @Spainkiller
4:14 AM · Feb 24, 2020

The Coronavirus Chronicles keep getting weirder and weirder.

You've probably heard about the sudden outbreak of the virus in South Korea. Well, did you also know that this is, in large part, to thank to an actual death cult? It's called #Shincheonji, and it's super scary.

The 31st Coronavirus case in South Korea was a member of the Shincheonji cult. She's considered a superspreader, and it's unclear how she has contracted the virus, as she hasn't traveled to Wuhan, China or even anywhere abroad. Scary.

Members of the Shincheonji cult are ordered not to fear diseases, not to wear face masks, not to miss meetings, and to pray together in close-knit circles. Makes you wonder why, eh?

The cult is almost 36 years old and is lead a by an 88-year old man named Lee Man-hee, who believes he is both Satan and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Much more dangerously, however, is the fact that his teachings are based on his unique interpretation of biblical texts.

I.e. Shincheonji believes that Lee Man-hee is the only one that can accurately interpret the Bible. That has lead to incredibly exclusionary teachings, similar to the '144.000 saints' teaching of the Jehova's Witnesses.

Most dangerously, Lee Man-hee is very eschatology-focused, in such a way that people within Schincheonji have claimed that they are not simply beholding the End Times, but are actively *bringing it about*.

This is also why some believe that they've purposefully spread the virus.

Schincheonji, like other cults, have very deceitful and aggressive ways of recruiting new members. E.g. they pose as a non-denominational christian church and gain your trust after months of 'bible study' before exposing their true teachings and loyalty to Lee Man-hee.

These tactics have resulted in the recruitment of atheists, agnostics and christians, which is why the cult has shown explosive growth in the last decade.

They've grown so massively, in fact, that they've set up lots of cell branches in many countries over the last few years.

This especially is scary considering how much they love to 'stay in touch' with all of their cell branches now that we know how fond they are of pathogens.

We haven't nearly reached peak scaremongering yet, however.

1) The cult has spread similar diseases twice before.
2) Infected members of the cult have been using travel extensively in the past few weeks, including to Israel.
3) They had a branch in Wuhan.
4) They scrubbed that branch off the internet immediately after the Wuhan outbreak.
5) Around half of all Korean Coronavirus cases are tied to the cult.
6) Lee Man-hee claims that his Messianic powers won't be fully manifested until after the apocalypse. Which "is close".
7) Shincheonji has gotten such an obvious bad reputation in South Korea that members have started lying about their affiliation in order to secretly continue their practices + recruitment.
8) As with any cult, it's almost impossible to leave. Apostates are threatened and abused.
9) Oh, yeah, Lee Man-hee also claims he's immortal, by the way. The guy's ****ing insane.

Make no mistake, people: Shincheonji has nothing to do with christianity (they're just using the name of Jesus Christ to further Lee's beliefs) and is the worst kind of cult.

Think I'm making shit up? One of the most popular apps in S. Korea right now is one that alerts you if you're close to one of Shincheonji's 'churches' or other affiliated establishments. Of which there are over 730 across S. Korea alone, btw.
I want to know every detail about this leader since birth. This conjecture makes sense. I doubt he had any "burning bush" epiphany. Hate to posit who is behind the curtain...
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Excellent. Thanks! I might be misremembering, but thought we saw a lot come out after Katrina, too. Not only the state and federal rights, but community response teams given authority, as well, at local levels to commandeer resources.
...I hope you and the boy are feeling well these days, btw...
This version appears to have taken the prior one that was developed in a community-based process and have turned it into a bureaucratic upper level manual.

Community based processes are messy as they involve group dynamics and personality types. They also have a shelf life only as long as the players so they must be constantly revised and practiced. They are the best way to develop community buy-in and teamwork. I have 12 years of experience with them.

I can tell you that people are going to be lost, scared, angry, frustrated and helpless. They have no idea what is happening, are not being communicated with or listened to, and they don't know what their role is supposed to be but to be taken care of by the elite in government and medical institutions. You can see that with the fiasco at the Costa Mesa City Council. The community was cut out of the process instead of being a part of it and really understanding why the facility might be a good option for them - even an asset.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Not a medical type but I thought I remembered there were some moisturizers that were also anti-bacterial so I looked it up on Amazon. Obviously we would need one that was anti-viral, not anti bacterial, so I'm not bringing over those links. this one says it kills all germs - so maybe it's anti viral too (?). Active ingredient is Benzalkonium Chloride


Maybe one of the medical professionals can weigh in on the efficacy of this product.

HD

ETA:

Here's another one:

Bless you HD. :applaud:
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
This article is about norovirus, but since it's a virus, I thought it might be helpful in your search.

(fair use applies)

Which hand sanitizers kill stomach flu viruses (especially norovirus) and C.diff spores?

Answer: my-shield Hand Sanitizer, Zylast Antiseptic Hand Sanitizer, Clorox Hand Sanitizer Spray and Germstar Noro are available in the US. I have all 4 of these hand sanitizers, and I like them all.

"Stomach flu" is just a nickname for viral gastroenteritis. It is not related to influenza, the real flu.

For everyday life, vigorous hand washing is good enough to remove most of the germs. However, if you are in a public place and can't get to a sink, I would recommend using a hand sanitizer that has been tested and approved to kill norovirus. I do not recommend using regular 60-65% alcohol hand sanitizer gels such as Purell because they are likely to be ineffective against norovirus1.

It has been very difficult to test hand sanitizers and cleaning products on human norovirus because human norovirus has refused to grow in the research lab. Human norovirus loves to attack cells inside people, but does not want to infect human cells in a petri dish. So, products that have been tested on human norovirus have looked at specific features, for example, if the viral capsid protein was damaged after treatment with this hand sanitizer or not? They have never been able to look at the end result, can the norovirus still infect cells after treatment with this hand sanitizer. Most products have been tested on norovirus surrogates. These are similar viruses, such as feline calicivirus and murine norovirus, which are able to infect cells in a petri dish. However, we can't be absolutely certain that a product that kills these surrogates would really kill human norovirus.

There is hope, though! Thanks to Dr. Mary Estes, there has been a recent breakthrough in growing norovirus in a lab. So maybe soon products will be able to be tested on the real human norovirus. Until then, all I can do is give my best recommendations based on the data for products killing norovirus surrogates. Here are the hand sanitizers that I have been using that have been tested against norovirus surrogates. There may be other hand sanitizers that kill norovirus but they haven't been tested or won't release the results. I, however, can only recommend a hand sanitizer that HAS been tested and shown to kill a norovirus surrogate AND the company would give me the test information.

Does Alcohol kill norovirus?
There are many different norovirus strains and some are more resistant to alcohol than others. Here is a research paper that tested many strains of human norovirus against ethanol and isopropanol. Ethanol worked better than isopropanol. Some strains of norovirus seemed sensitive to ethanol and some strains seemed resistant. These tests did NOT show that after treatment with ethanol, the norovirus could or could not infect a human cell. They were just looking at whether the viral capsid proteins were damaged. Companies that sell alcohol based hand sanitizers usually say that they add other ingredients to make the ethanol more effective. We hope that is true and not just a marketing gimmick. The norovirus surrogate Feline Calicivirus is more resistant to ethanol than the other commonly used surrogate, murine norovirus.

My-Shield Hand Sanitizer
my-shield Hand Sanitizer kills the norovirus surrogate murine norovirus AND is the first hand sanitizer that I have ever heard of that kills C. Diff SPORES!!!! Clostridium difficile is a bacteria that causes a horrible intestinal infection that can last for months or years. It is very common in hospitals. If you are on an antibiotic such as clindamycin and step foot into a hospital for any procedure, you are at risk for getting C. diff. (I am not a medical doctor and there are other risk factors for contracting C. diff.) My very healthy 16 year old nephew was on clindamycin and went into the hospital for a few hours for a minor surgical procedure and caught C. diff. He was sick for 1 year. C. diff forms spores that are extremely hard to kill. Most cleaning products won't kill C. diff spores except chlorine bleach. My-shield hand sanitizer has actually been tested and shown to kill 99.99% of C. diff spores in 10 minutes. Here is the C. diff test data that the company sent me. Yes, 10 minutes is kind of long but far better than nothing. If you work at a hospital, you could put it on when you leave and the vast majority of the spores and norovirus should be dead by the time you get home. (Wash your hands when you get home anyway.) This hand sanitizer is fragrance-free, contains no alcohol, and is very gentle on hands. It is a foam composed of four quaternary ammonium compounds (benzalkonium chloride, trimethyoxyl silyl propyl, trihydroxyl silyl ammonia, and polyamino biguanide). I know that there are dozens of hand sanitizers with benzalkonium chloride as the active ingredient, however, benzalkonium chloride does not kill norovirus good enough by itself to be a useful hand sanitizer. However, when combined with the other quats, the My-Shield does a great job. Here is the norovirus surrogate test data that the company gave me. The My-Shield is also advertised to continue to work for several hours after application. I don't rely on that for any hand sanitizer that advertises it. It is always best to wash hands or reapply before eating if you can. Here is the company brochure about it. I've also tested My-Shield myself on my kids' dirty hands. It did very well! You can see my results here.

Zylast-- Use Zylast coupon code "StopNorovirus" when checking out at The Zylast Product Line - Zylast Direct to get 10% off your order.

Zylast Antiseptic Hand Sanitizer is a very exciting hand sanitizer that kills 99.97% of the norovirus surrogate Feline calicivirus! It is also advertised to possess some residual activity and has been shown to continue working for about 6 hours against bacteria. It was not tested for residual activity against norovirus. It's active ingredient is 76% ethanol. The company claims that the "Zylast Technology" makes it kill norovirus much better than ethanol alone. They also sell the Zylast Antiseptic Lotion. The company told me that the lotion has NOT BEEN tested for its ability to kill norovirus and the ingredients are different. So I recommend buying Zylast Antiseptic and NOT Zylast lotion. I tested the zylast antiseptic, and it did a great job killing bacteria when you first use it. I was unable to show that it continues to work, though. The thing I love most about Zylast antiseptic is that it kills bacteria well even on visibly dirty hands so it is a good choice for kids. You can see my experimental test results here. However, it is QUIETER to use compared to the sprays during church. Here is the technical information about Zylast. If you order from www.zylastdirect.com, use the coupon code "StopNorovirus" to get 10% off your order. Zylast is not available on Amazon.
Zylast Antiseptic
76% ethanol, Water, Polyaminopropyl Biquanide, Panthenol, Hydroxyethyl Ethylcellulose, Farnesol, Peg-12, Dimethicone, and Benzethonium Chloride.
Zylast Antiseptic LOTION
.2% Benzethonium Chloride, Water, Alcohol Denat., Cetearyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Polyaminopropyl Biquanide, Dimethicone, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Benzyl Alcohol, Farnesol, Panthenol, Zinc gluconate, Chlorhexidine Digluconate, Citric Acid, Polyquaternium-10, and Tocopheryl Acetate.

Clorox Hand Sanitizing Spray
Clorox Hand Sanitizer Spray was tested and shown to kill 99.3% of the norovirus surrogate Feline Calicivirus. That is pretty good since Feline Calicivirus is very resistant to alcohol. Clorox does not advertise that this hand sanitizer kills norovirus. However, here is a link to the test data that I received from Clorox about it. This is a liquid spray hand sanitizer with 71% ethanol. It does not contain bleach. It is not available in most stores. You can order it on amazon. I have been using this hand sanitizer myself and I really like it. Like all alcohol sanitizers, it can sting if your hands have cuts on them. I have done some experiments with it myself which you can see here. This spray works the best if you use a lot and really soak your hands and then rub. It does not work well if your hands are covered in dirt. So, wipe your hands with a wipe first if they are visibly dirty and then use the spray. It does not leave a sticky film and is safe to use on kids hands.

Germstar Noro
The company Germstar® has specifically designed a hand sanitizer that kills norovirus. It is called Germstar Noro. It's active ingredient is 63% ethanol. So, how could this possibly work when the regular 62% alcohol products don't work very well? I contacted the company to find out. I read their ingredient list, read their test results, and e-mailed the scientist who did the tests. Click here and you can read the test results too. This is what I learned. Germstar®Noro contains an emollient complex that makes it work better. The phrase "emollient complex" probably sounds fishy to you (like an anti-wrinkle cream commercial). Basically, they have added some extra ingredients that make the alcohol work much better. They also did not add glycerin (which most alcohol hand gels like Purell contain). They found that the glycerin "protects" the viruses. I believe their results and I trust that Germstar®Noro does kill norovirus, especially since the scientist who tested Germstar®Noro (Dr. Syed Sattar) is one of the top researchers in the field2. It is a liquid that comes in a spray bottle. It dries really nice with no stickiness. Like all alcohol hand sanitizers, it stings my knuckles in the winter when they are dry and chapped. Therefore, I usually just put it on my palms and fingers. I don't eat with my knuckles, anyway. It is important to use a lot of the product and really soak your hands and rub, though, if you want to kill ALL the germs. I recommend getting the 2oz bottles for carrying in your purse or coat pocket. Germstar Noro is available on amazon!

STERIZAR
The company Germ-Aside also has a very exciting hand sanitizer called Sterizar Hand Foamer. Unfortunately, it is not available in the US at this time. It is only available in the UK. This hand sanitizer promises not only to kill norovirus but also claims to continue working for 6 hours! I have read their experimental procedures and test results and am very impressed. 6 hours after application, the test subjects who used the hand sanitizer had 99% less bacteria on their hands than the control people who did not use the hand sanitizer. Here is a link to all of their test results. It takes forever to download so be patient. When reading hand sanitizer test results it is important to understand what "log" means. Test results always talk about "log reduction". A log reduction of 5, means that the product kills 99.999% of germs. A log reduction of 4, means that it kills 99.99% of germs. A log reduction of 3 means that it kills 99.9% of germs. A log reduction of 2 means that the product kills 99% of germs. A log reduction of 1 means that the product kills 90% of germs. Without this information, it is difficult to understand the test results.

Does Purell Advanced kill norovirus?
I contacted the makers of Purell on March 8, 2012 and Oct. 1, 2014 to see if Purell Advanced was effective against norovirus. They said that they could not provide me with any of that information. This does not mean that Purell Advanced DOESN't kill norovirus, it just means that they either haven't tested it or won't/can't release the results of the test. However, if you look at my experimental results comparing Purell Advanced to Zylast, you will see that Zylast does so much better.

Do Wet Ones Antibacterial wipes kill norovirus?
Internet rumors say that Wet Ones Anti-Bacterial Wipes kill norovirus. However, this is unproven. I contacted the Playtex® company (on January 8, 2009) who makes Wet Ones® Antibacterial wipes, and they told me that their wipes have not been tested for their ability to kill norovirus or rotavirus. The active ingredient, Benzethonium Chloride HAS recently been tested for its ability to kill norovirus and it DID NOT KILL NOROVIRUS.3 This is confusing though, because benzethonium chloride is one of the ingredients in Zylast which does a great job killing norovirus. I suspect it is the combination of the alcohol and the benzethonium chloride in Zylast that makes it good at killing norovirus. I am not sure, though. There is a related compound called benzalkonium chloride which has been shown to kill norovirus in ONE research paper but it is not contained in these wipes.4 Benzalkonium chloride is contained in many foaming hand sanitizers such as Germ-X foaming hand sanitizer and Pampers Kandoo kids hand sanitizer. However, in the research paper, it took 2 hours for the benzalkonium chloride to kill norovirus so it is very unlikely that the smaller amount contained in these hand sanitizers would kill norovirus. The Germ-X Foaming Hand Sanitizer and the Pampers Kandoo Kids Foaming Hand Sanitizer do not CLAIM to kill norovirus. However, benalkonium chloride is the main ingredient in the new GFS bioprotect hand sanitizer that says it kills norovirus. I don't think we will get to the bottom of this until these products can be tested on the real human norovirus.

If anyone knows of another hand sanitizer for which there is proof that it kills rotavirus and norovirus, please let me know. phd.annie at gmail.com

Is it safe to put hand sanitizer on a child who sucks his/her thumb?
Many people wonder if it is okay to put hand sanitizer on the hands of a child who sucks his/her thumb. Most hand sanitizers are made with ethyl alcohol (ethanol). That is the same alcohol that people drink in beer and wine. So, ingesting a small amount of ethanol is unlikely to hurt anyone. I called the Ohio poison control center about this on March 13, 2012 and the nurse told me that it was perfectly safe for a child to eat the tiny bit of ethanol based hand sanitizer that was on his/her hand. I put alcohol hand sanitizer on my daughter and try to make her wait until her hands are dry before she sucks her thumb. I can't vouch for the safety of other ingredients that may be in your particular hand sanitizer or of all the other types of hand sanitizers. However, such tiny amounts probably aren't harmful. I am not proud of this but when my youngest son was 17 months old, he ate a puff of my hair mousse, a finger full of black craft paint, desitin, a mouthful of dryer lint, and one ladybug. I called poison control each time and they said none of it would be a problem since he only ate tiny amounts. My son never got sick and was fine.
--Annie Pryor, Ph.D.

 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
Marsh, and anyone else who suffers from dry hands (I do too, so this is helping me out as well)

I got the message that my post had over 2000 characters so I have to post my comments separately from the article;).

I was only going to post an excerpt on My Shield, the product I added to and linked to in my original post. I think that may be a good bet for people like us. But then I thought the entire article was good so I posted the whole thing. Which after formatting and taking out the footnotes fit in one post. If anyone wants to read the footnotes, click on the link to the article.

HD

PS- hope your grandson feels better and he is the last sick grandchild and they all stay healthy from here on out!!!!
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
One last post for tonight.

The book that Shane pointed out the other night that I ordered (impulsively, but no regrets!) arrived in today's mail. I haven't had a chance to look through it yet so the review will have to wait but from a quick look through it looks really good. Here's the link again, the price has even come down some since I ordered it:

 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
GHoeberX @ghoeberx
It's interesting how #Iran had only 18 reported #COVID19 cases two days ago. So Iran govermment wants us to believe that these handful of people have infected: 8 cases in Bahrain and all the imported cases in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Oman, Lebanon, Canada and the UAE..

Quoting myself.. I know...

If the SK CULT is spreading this disease around the middle east, not all those cases are necessarily coming from Iran, they could be coming from someone(s) in that church/cult who is deliberately spreading this. And if they have no churches in S America or Africa, and they haven't sent any infected member there to spread the disease, that could explain why there are no cases there yet.. hmm..

Just some food for thought. My 'woo' for the early morning hours.

HD
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
There was a segment on one of Dr. John Campbell's videos on hand hygiene. He said the soap loosens the sebum - a film that protects the skin. The virus is washed away with the sebum. I imagine that is why hands get dry.

Definition of sebum

: fatty lubricant matter secreted by sebaceous glands of the skin

I wanted to replace the lubricant without negating the effect of hand washing. I think the R&R lotion will do that. It also doesn't look greasy, which is important to me as I work with fibers and cloth. Thanks again!
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Quoting myself.. I know...

If the SK CULT is spreading this disease around the middle east, not all those cases are necessarily coming from Iran, they could be coming from someone(s) in that church/cult who is deliberately spreading this. And if they have no churches in S America or Africa, and they haven't sent any infected member there to spread the disease, that could explain why there are no cases there yet.. hmm..

Just some food for thought. My 'woo' for the early morning hours.

HD
The Iran case was attributed to an Iranian who visited China.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Looks like some good resources on Chris Martenson's Peak Prosperity


Welcome the Peak Prosperity those of you who just found this great site.

Like Chris said, his first alert, just over a month ago caused many of us, who have been following and learn from this site, sometimes for years to sit up and notice.

Since then Chris, Adam and the community of diverse members have been discussing this virus, its affects and its characteristics to try and get a handle on how we should prepare. Because of this, we have some great resources to help you get prepared.

Start with this post:

An ER Doc’s Summary –Written for His Family

It will give you a quick introduction to the virus.

Next you are going to want to prepare and buy some supplies. You may be forced by personal decision or perhaps even government edict to self quarantine. Can you live in your home for 14 days without having to leave for food or other needed items? If not, then you need to go out and buy what you need NOW.

As Chris said in this video, time to prepare is running out.

This post offers some very good ideas on what you might need and areas you may have forgotten:

Preparations By Category – Revised 2/14

Not everyone will realize how critical it is to prepare, and so when it does dawn on them, the seriousness of the crisis, and find empty shelves at grocery stores they will get desperate. They may remember then how they saw you, unloading bags of groceries and supplies then decide to come knocking on your door.

It is not selfish to want to protect your family, friends and loved ones.

If you decide to stock up and prepare with purchases of supplies and groceries, do so wisely and with a little bit of discretion. This post explains how to do that:

Protective Camouflage Is Now Needed – Getting Serious!

Now this is a good post on what to do if you do get ill. Chris found it on reddit and its a great list:

Nursing 101: Caring for your loved ones at home

Along with that gem, there are many other comments filled with information.

Its hard to go through each of the almost daily video threads here and find what you need to know so we have put together a megathread, one where all the comments about basic subjects are listed so you can find them.

Here are the three current threads:

Coronavirus: Home Prep, Deep Pantry & Gardening Megathread

Coronavirus: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread

Coronavirus: Sanitation, PPE and Self Quarantine Megathread

(These threads are current to 2/14, they will be updated further later in the week.)

Lots of amazing information in those threads. If you are searching for something specific, use your browser’s “Find” option.

If what you are looking for is not covered in those comments, then please POST A QUESTION to any video thread. The community has a diverse and knowledgeable depth you won’t find anywhere else on the Internet, and they are here to help.

Best of luck, stay safe.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
The Iran case was attributed to an Iranian who visited China.
But I think they are just hypothesizing about that. I'd like to know more about that person if they really do know who it is. Are they a member of the church? In Israel, they were members of the church. That's how it spread there. I don't know about Italy, I think they are still trying to figure out who patient zero is.

I've been thinking about all those videos of people in China being dragged away from their homes or on the street being surrounded and dragged away. What if the CCP figured it out - what if they traced the stolen virus to the person who stole it, and discovered they were a member of the "church". What if those people they are rounding up are fellow church members? Isn't it convenient that someone is there to record it on their phone? Who is doing the recording for them? I don't know..maybe it's all woo, but maybe that's why Pres Trump keeps saying we're doing OK. Maybe he's alerted HSA and customs not to let any member of that church into the country so he's keeping the numbers down with those they've traced who were on flights (???).

HD
 

Squid

Veteran Member
I also watched the whore CBS media evening news, which even had a puff piece on Jessie Smollet and one also on Kobe Bryant. They opened with Weinstein being rolled out in his walker as a convicted sex offender, balanced by Kobe the guy who likely raped the motel manager and in between all of that they put some serious, serious level mind hysteria on the Sheeple. Yep, one slug from the stock market, economy which the sheeple focus on laser like intensity, and then Italy sliding into chaos, and a few more pandemic blurbs. The sheeple are getting prepping, I can sense it.

Sheeple don’t prep they panic!
 

jward

passin' thru
Apex
@Apex_WW

1h

#NEW: Spanish media reporting hundreds of tourists at a hotel in Costa Adeje in Tenerife are being tested for the new #coronavirus after a confirmed case of #COVID19 was identified. - Sky News

------------------------------------
SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 watcher
@2019nCoVwatcher
1h

TENERIFE UPDATE: 1,000 hotel guests are quarantined in the hotel. The infected man has been in the hotel for 7 days together with his wife. Police is surrounding the hotel.
 

Squid

Veteran Member
Tidbits from the San Fransisco Chron

12:08 p.m. 8,000 in California now self-quarantined: Some 8,000 people across the state have quarantined themselves, the California Department of Public Health told The Chronicle. That’s up from 6,700 last week. The federal government has asked people who returned from China, which has the highest number of coronavirus cases, to stay home from work and avoid big crowds.


Related Stories


11:38 a.m. Pelosi visits Chinatown: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is touring Chinatown to assure people that it’s safe to visit despite the coronavirus. She visited the Tin How Temple, followed by the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory, whose owner Kevin Chan, says his business and others are down 70%.

/snip

===

.

You go Nancy and give them a big Hug while your out and about photo-opping.
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
Horrible, yes. Inflammatory? nah. There are many pix and videos that are much, much worse. Eating dog meat is endemic in Chinese culture (as is eating anything and everything that is disgusting), and you can find it almost anywhere if you know where to look. Some Chinese believe that the more the animal suffers before it is killed, the more heathful the meat. I'll leave it to your imagination as to what some of these animals endure while in the process of being killed. I don't care that there are exceptions, China is a disgusting government and culture. A blight upon the earth. Ichabod


Unfortunately I have witnessed firsthand this market. I won't say what I feel about the Chinese people. It might be inflammatory.

I will say that I hope anyone who is really abusive to the defenseless (animal or human) deserves a very long drawn out brutally painful horrific death and I have not one single tear to shed on their behalf.

There. Now I feel slightly better.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Not a medical type but I thought I remembered there were some moisturizers that were also anti-bacterial

You don't need an anti-bacterial moisturizer. For one thing, the new virus is a virus, so anti-bacterials have no effect. For another, once your hands are virus-free, putting lotion on doesn't add the virus. It's just lotion.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Darn you people. Went to bed very early last night to catch up on some sleep. Got up around 5am and made my rounds. Dow futures up a tick so follow on contagion from yesterday is blunted. Quick check of Drudge and other headlines and no indication of anything either major or imminent so that is good.

Then I got back on this thread to catch up from 7pm last night and caught Tucker’s segment and the other articles and I’m back to full on badness again. Doesn’t matter. I would rather deal with reality and the way things really are than to be fed happy land bull$hit from the media and government. People who were unaware and caught Tucker are where many of us were four weeks ago when we started warning people to take it seriously and source what you needed starting off with medical support supplies. We were given a heads up before the general population for those willing to listen.

Good, bad and/or ugly I don’t care. I want actionable truth and reality. We’ve had time now to process what is coming so it isn’t dumped on our heads in an OMG moment. We don‘t want to be like the people in Italy and S. Korea standing in long lines and in front of empty shelves. Panic...no need. Prepare...yes. It’s what we do hopefully.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment


Study: China Lied, Wuhan Virus Did Not Originate in Meat Market
3,194
TOPSHOT - A vendor (R) offers meat to customers, wearing facemasks to help stop the spread of a deadly virus which began in the city, on the eve of the Lunar New Year in Wuhan on January 24, 2020, when normally markets would be bustling. - China sealed off millions …
HECTOR RETAMAL/AFP via GettyFRANCES MARTEL24 Feb 20201236
6:17

Chinese scientists have concluded that the Wuhan coronavirus did not originate at a wild meat market as the Communist Party had previously asserted, the South China Morning Post reported on Sunday.

After weeks of the never-before-seen virus infecting people in the city of 11 million in December, Chinese authorities shut down the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, where people were allowed to sell wild animals for meat relatively freely, on January 1. Chinese officials did not make the viral outbreak public until January 20, so doctors at Wuhan hospitals did not properly isolate patients, exposing themselves and sensitive patients to the virus.

Chinese officials insisted that the evidence suggested the new coronavirus jumped from animals to humans at the Huanan market.

“The origin of the new coronavirus is the wildlife sold illegally in a Wuhan seafood market,” Gao Fu, director of China Center for Disease Control and Prevention, told a briefing in January, shortly after Beijing announced the outbreak. Gao’s agency claimed as evidence that, of 33 samples taken from early patients that month, 31 were directly traceable back to the part of the market where individuals sold wildlife for eating.

Now, a joint study released Thursday by Chinese Academy of Sciences and the Chinese Institute for Brain Research concludes that “the SARS-CoV-2 source at the … market was imported from elsewhere. … The crowded market then boosted SARS-CoV-2 circulation and spread it to the whole city in early December 2019.”

Caixin Global noted in its report on the study that it has yet to be peer-reviewed, a process many in academia deem necessary to confirm that a study’s findings are legitimate. It detailed how the study traced the origins of the virus in 93 different samples. If the virus had originated at the market, all samples would have been traceable there, but the researchers found otherwise:
Scientists used gene sequencing technology from 93 virus samples and analyzed their haplotypes — groups of genes inherited together from a single parent organism. They found that all the samples with a reported link to the market contained the same haplotype, which they called H1.
But when the scientists dug deeper, they found that three more-ancestral haplotypes — H3, H13 and H38 — appeared in several cases with no reported ties to the market, including one in the southern city of Shenzhen and another in the United States.
That makes it relatively likely that the virus was introduced into the market from outside and began passing between people earlier than previously thought, according to the study.
The study’s estimate for when the virus started spreading is the earliest yet on record, suggesting that the virus may have first begun spreading in Wuhan as early as November 2019. It condemned the Chinese communist regime for failing to alert residents earlier about the outbreak to ensure that people took safety precautions, particularly at crowded events and in hospitals: “If the warning [after the market shut down in January] had attracted more attention, the number of cases both nationally and globally in mid-to-late January would have been reduced.”

“The study concerning whether Huanan market is the only birthplace of SARS-CoV-2 is of great significance for finding its source and determining the intermediate host, so as to control the epidemic and prevent it from spreading again,” the scientists noted.

The latest study joins a much earlier one published in the medical journal The Lancet in January, which also called into question the official claim that the Wuhan wildlife meat market was responsible for the outbreak. That study found a case in which a patient with no links to the market got sick on December 1, one of the first to be identified as a patient. Of the 41 patients studied, 13 did not appear to have any connection to the market.

Huang Chaolin, one of the doctors who wrote the Lancet study, told the Chinese state news agency Xinhua that the new case did not necessarily mean that the virus did not originate at the market, but that there may be more than one source responsible for the spread of the disease.

The Lancet study did not prevent a frenzy to identify the wild meat allegedly responsible for the virus, resulting in a wide variety of theories on whether bats, snakes, mice, badgers, or other pests could have carried the disease. As there is little supervision in what sorts of animals people bring to the market and most are killed live on site, even confirmation of the market as the source of the virus would leave many questions unanswered. Dr. Emily Landon at the University of Chicago explains:
These markets have been known to transmit viruses before. For cultural reasons in the region, people want to see the specific animals they’re buying be slaughtered in front of them, so they know they’re receiving the products they paid for. That means there’s a lot of skinning of dead animals in front of shoppers and, as a result, aerosolizing of all sorts of things, which is why these crowded markets are common places for viruses to jump from animals to people. It’s actually how SARS, another coronavirus, started in 2003.
Adding to the initial confusion were reports on video allegedly showing the Wuhan market, but instead showing locations elsewhere in Southeast Asia that had no known ties to the coronavirus outbreak.

China is nonetheless considering a nationwide ban on wild meat to prevent other potential outbreaks. The Communist Party has yet to address the most recent study potentially absolving the meat market.

At press time, global health officials have identified 79,544 cases of coronavirus worldwide, most in China, Over 2,600 people have died after being diagnosed with the virus. For weeks, Chinese officials reportedly denied patients with clear coronavirus symptoms the testing kit necessary to confirm the outbreak, suggesting the number of cases in the country is much higher than what government officials have documented.
 

pops88

Girls with Guns Member
I took a break by watching Hunters on Amazon Prime. Oy vey, operation paper clip laid out for public consumption. Nazis and the holocaust will sure take your mind of Corona. Episode 5 is a humdinger "NASA- run by Nazis smuggled here by your government. Oh yeah, it really happened. Shhh." (Nice little added forefinger in front of the mouth, Illuminati "don't tell" sign.) Guess it's out of the realm of consumption for conspiracy theory "nuts." Lots of foul language, graphic violence and a homosexuality, but it's kind of a "must watch." Just look away at appropriate times. Fantastic story line and history.
 

Terrwyn

Veteran Member
Protecting yourself will probably take three months minimum of isolation. Wherever you are in the US, the virus is no more than half an hour from you. As for too late, I don't know what to say.
Very few people except for the most rugged survivalist homesteaders are set up to isolate from this virus. All you can do is your best. Take what precautions you can and go about your life. As far as 6 weeks go what will you do at that point if the virus is raging all over? I dob't know what else to say either.
 

EMICT

Veteran Member
This version appears to have taken the prior one that was developed in a community-based process and have turned it into a bureaucratic upper level manual.

Community based processes are messy as they involve group dynamics and personality types. They also have a shelf life only as long as the players so they must be constantly revised and practiced. They are the best way to develop community buy-in and teamwork. I have 12 years of experience with them.

I can tell you that people are going to be lost, scared, angry, frustrated and helpless. They have no idea what is happening, are not being communicated with or listened to, and they don't know what their role is supposed to be but to be taken care of by the elite in government and medical institutions. You can see that with the fiasco at the Costa Mesa City Council. The community was cut out of the process instead of being a part of it and really understanding why the facility might be a good option for them - even an asset.

There is a difference between these folks...

RockwellFlag.PNG

... and these folks

portland-violence.jpg


Unfortunately, we live in a society now that will not adhere to any type of pandemic preparedness or action that relates to the greater good. I understand your optimism in these organizational matters Marsh but at the street level, we don't live in 'that' society any more. Compliance is the only way the CDC, HHS, or any other governmental institution can get a handle on a pandemic and we just don't have that in great enough numbers here in the US anymore... thus my pessimism.
 
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