Any good forums for help with cat's injured paw pad?

[stillprepping]

we just picked up a stray cat that was literally starving. whenever we see an animal so neglected and hurting, we cant help but attend to it. (we already have 4 .. but this one's going in the barn)

we noticed one of its rear pads is 'ruptured' or something, with bright red muscle or flesh or whatever protruding out thru it. it doesnt seem that its particularly painful to her, but she's not walking on it so we know its bothering her.

anyone familiar with cats? or familiar with any forums that may be helpful??

 

[ioujc]

That sounds AWFUL!! I looked and found this.....not much, but....
http://home.ivillage.com/pets/symsolve/0,,lhpq,00.html
http://home.ivillage.com/pets/symsolve/0,,ljl4,00.html
http://home.ivillage.com/pets/symsolve/0,,hxm1,00.html
http://home.ivillage.com/pets/symsolve/0,,hxm1,00.html

 

[summerthyme]

Hmmmm..... she's either got a foreign body in it... which is possible... or just a VERY deep cut which has allowed the swelling flesh to protrude through the skin of the pad.

It probably should have been stitched, but it's way too late for that. (and almost certainly was when you found her)

See if she will possibly let you soak it. If so, start with plain, BARELY warmer than body temperature water. If she tolerates that, add a small bit of salt to the water (you're trying to treat this without freaking her out to the point where she won't let you get near her again- cats have long memories!).

If there isn't any overt sign of infection... no pus, the entire foot isn't swollen... it's probably best to simply dab some antibiotic salve on it and leave it open- as long as she's in the house for now. If she's in the barn (and the problem, as you probably know, with "temporary house cats" is persuading them differently when it's time for them to move out!!), then a gauze wrap with some 2" vet-wrap over it... and secured with a fairly narrow strip of duct tape to keep her from pulling it off within minutes... would be best.

She'll lick off the antibiotic salve, but it won't hurt her.

A soak I use with great success on all species (including two leggeds) is one with calendula petals (pot marigold), garlic and a couple drops of either oil of oregano or oil of thyme in warm salt water. If you don't have the essential oils, you can use the dried kitchen herbs instead... make a "tea bag" out of some fabric, or use a tea ball and soak them in hot water for 10 minutes or more, letting the water cool slowly to a tolerable temperature.

If a few days of care doesn't change the appearance of the pad (you should see some improvement in 24 hours, really) then you may need to get a vet to see if there is something in it. If you're soaking it, you may be able to see a foreign object, but it's difficult with cats especially to do much without sedating them.

Good luck!

Summerthyme

 

[Cardinal]

stillprepping, do you have a cage you can confine kitty in? If you follow Summerthyme's advice (if you don't have all of those herbs, at the very least clean it with soap and water or dab with peroxide) then keep kitty in a cage for a couple of weeks so she doesn't step in anything that will reinfect it, until it starts to heal, then kitty can go in the barn. If the infection goes to the bone, that's major Vet bill time.

 

[summerthyme]

Yeah- I know most folks won't have calendula in the house <bg>. But seriously, folks... if you can (and you can buy Calendula petals from Atlantic spice for an amazingly cheap price... and they're not bad quality)... that soak I mentioned has healed some really ugly, potentially dangerous infections.

And it's totally non-toxic to any species.

You can make it without the Calendula... most folks have garlic and the basic herbs on hand.

I made up a "preppers version" of the stuff.... dried calendula, dehydrated garlic chips, salt, and dropped the essential oils onto it all, and mixed it up well in a ziplock bag. Then I put it in smaller ziplock bags in "individual portions" (about 1/2 cup each) and gave them to a couple of my grown kids... the boys who work construction and do mechanics and are always getting nicked and cut up.

My youngest son got a bad infected toe from a hangnail he pulled out. (they never listen!). He called me up and said "it was getting really bad.... I couldn't even put a sock on. So I borrowed some of your "magic soak stuff" from Jeremy and used it for a couple of days. Healed it right up.

Cracked me up... these are the kids who laughed at my "witchcraft" when I was playing with herbs while they were growing up. They'd let me use various potions and salves on them,.... but complained and poked fun all the time. Then they grow up.. and suddenly realize how well the stuff works!

The cage idea is very good, BTW. Both for keeping her from getting it dirty (although cats, obviously, will clean it constantly) and for keeping her from getting the idea that the house is a neat place to stay.

BTW, I'd avoid peroxide, if only because it burns like a booger, and you'll have trouble doing anything with the paw for awhile after that. Betadine solution in some soak water works very well, and doesn't burn anywhere near as much.

Summerthyme

 

[Springledge]

I second the Betadine solution idea. I haven't tried the herbs but I am sure they are great. It is just that I have tried the Betadine solution on myself and it worked great. I stuck a rusty nail all the way through my foot...don't ask and of course I had to go to the doctor as I needed a tetnus shot. He told me to also soak my foot in the Betadine solution...just warm water and Betadine a couple of times a day. I did and it never even got really sore...great stuff.

 

[stillprepping]

theres no infection. i'll be bringing her to the vet today, hopefully ..

 

[stillprepping]

just got back from vets .. no temperature or anything, but the cat has loads of fleas and ear mites, so got some Revolution for it. also got antibiotics for its paw pad. i guess not much else to do for that.

couldnt afford to do all the blood tests to see if it has feline aids, lukemia, etc. but i WILL begin giving [diluted] hydrogen peroxide in its water immediately.

if y'all dont know about this wonder 'drug' .. you should find out!

i'll also 'treat' his fleas with fullers earth powder to help kill of flea larva. other than that .. he's in God's hands. as we all are.

Question: he's staying out in a dog cage in our barn. we have a small cat bed for him (he doesnt like it) with a heat lamp near the ceiling. does he need heat at nite? its going down into the 40s around here.

learn to grow your own food .. or you may not have any soon.

 

[yellowsprings]

Question: he's staying out in a dog cage in our barn. we have a small cat bed for him (he doesnt like it) with a heat lamp near the ceiling. does he need heat at nite? its going down into the 40s around here.

All five of my cats are and have been outdoor cats. As long as they are out of the elements, they should be fine. We put a large dog (kitty) house under the porch in a corner where it is up against the house on two sides and completely blocked from the wind. We fill it with straw and they love it! All access to animals larger than a cat is also blocked so that they have a safe place to run from predators.

If he does not like the cat bed, how about a box full of straw? They love boxes and could make himself a nice little nest. Preferably in a corner, or an out of the way location.

 

[stillprepping]

"All access to animals larger than a cat is also blocked"

thats what we did with his cage. now if we can only keep the darn chickens and ducks out of it!

we'll try the straw .. thats a great suggestion.

 

[yellowsprings]

"All access to animals larger than a cat is also blocked"

thats what we did with his cage. now if we can only keep the darn chickens and ducks out of it!

we'll try the straw .. thats a great suggestion.

My chickens see straw and they come running like it's the greatest thing on earth!

Do you have a pic of the poor guy? I adopted one last year with a broken leg. Poor thing, the leg was just hanging there. After several weeks in a cast, she took it off herself! Even thought the vet said it was an old injury and she probably would not be able to use the leg, you could never tell by the way she walks now!

 

[Cardinal]

just got back from vets .. no temperature or anything, but the cat has loads of fleas and ear mites, so got some Revolution for it. also got antibiotics for its paw pad. i guess not much else to do for that.

couldnt afford to do all the blood tests to see if it has feline aids, lukemia, etc. but i WILL begin giving [diluted] hydrogen peroxide in its water immediately.

if y'all dont know about this wonder 'drug' .. you should find out!

i'll also 'treat' his fleas with fullers earth powder to help kill of flea larva. other than that .. he's in God's hands. as we all are.

Question: he's staying out in a dog cage in our barn. we have a small cat bed for him (he doesnt like it) with a heat lamp near the ceiling. does he need heat at nite? its going down into the 40s around here.

learn to grow your own food .. or you may not have any soon.

Can you tell me what the diluted peroxide is good for?

 

[AddisonRose]

I am going to post this information on hydrogen peroxide and free radical damage and attempt a layman's explanation. I am a highly trained professional and cringe when I see H2O2 recommended as any type of treatment. It is bad enough that Hydrogen Peroxide is the end result of normal body functions without ingesting more. H2O2 is a free radical generator in the body which can cause illness and diseases, like cancer.

I would seriously recommend not taking any type of hydrogen peroxide treatment. I have seen some major damage done to people who have taken it, animals would be no different. And this is my opinion.

Here is what I hope will be of interest:
____________________________________

Free Radicals:

* The hydroxyl radical is the leader of the pack. It is the most reactive oxygen radical known to chemistry. It is produced from water exposed to X-rays or gamma-rays, or from hydrogen peroxide present in our body.

* Superoxide radical is produced from oxygen when an electron is attached.

* Nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide.Nitric oxide is produced in our body. Nitrogen dioxide is found in polluted air and smoke. The vascular endothelial cells which form the lining of our blood vessels, the phagocytes which are part of our immune system, and some brain cells also produce nitric oxide.

Oxidizing compounds: Most scientists group oxidizing compounds with free radicals. These are compounds that, although not free radicals, they are strong oxidants or can be converted easily to free radicals.

Some examples include:

* Hydrogen peroxide can make the extremely damaging hydroxyl radical. Injury or hemolysis (breakdown of our red blood cells) releases unbound iron, which promotes the conversion; UV radiation does the same.

* Singlet oxygen is an extremely reactive form of the same oxygen in the air we breath. Oxygen has two unpaired electrons arranged in such a way that oxidizes other molecules very slowly. If the electrons are rearranged, oxygen is converted to singlet oxygen. Light and compounds sensitive to light produce singlet oxygen.

* Ozone - At the stratosphere, ozone provides a protective shield against the harmful UV rays. At ground level, ozone causes major oxidation.

_____________


Side note, when you open the microwave door after cooking, do not inhale -- there are singlet oxygen molecules created from the MW process that can cause serious lung damage and/or cancer. Learned that in Organic Chemistry II.

Hope this sheds some light on the damaging effects of H2O2. AddisonRose

PS: GrapeFruit Seed Extract concentrate is a good antibacterial/antiviral and is not harmful. Depending on the water bowl or glass (humans) one to 2 drops in fresh water daily (animals) or 5 to 6 drops in a glass of water for humans. Caustic so start slow, can upset the stomach. AR

 

[summerthyme]

Thanks AddisonRose... I do get worried when I read hydrogen peroxide being suggested, as well. It *sounds* like a good idea, but unfortunately most people don't understand the underlying chemistry and biological processes.

I'm not sure adding it to drinking water in an open container is going to be too damaging- or much use, either. Doesn't it change quite rapidly (degrade into something else?) on contact with air?

(and if I'm wrong, please correct me. It's been a LONG time since I read that organic chemistry book!)

SUmmerthyme

 

[stillprepping]

addison,

with all due respect .. there are over 5,000 articles on the therapeutic uses of h2o2 in the scientific archives. doctors, scientist, microbiologists, and others have lauded the positive results of oxygenated water. its use goes back - literally - hundreds of years. its powerful oxidizing effects are what put it in the ranks of one of the greatest bio-oxidative therapies known to man.

i'm aware of free radicals just as you are. and i assume, therefore, that you know that they are not necessarily 'bad'. in fact, many are absolutely essential to life. they are produced by the body to deliver energy to the bodys cells, and are used to kill bacteria, fungi, and viruses. they also play a role in regulating chemicals needed by our body for living, like hormones.

like they say, the "proof is in the pudding". and h2o2 has been proving itself for a lonnng time. personally, i've been using it for over 5 yrs with excellent success and NO side effects whatsoever. we also feed it to our chicken in their water. (i'm not relating many other 'success stories' from friends, relatives, neighbors, farmers and others who taken it appropriately)

would u mind detailing the "major damage" youve seen done by people taking it? i cant help but believe there were 'extenuating' circumstances ...

 

[jmh]

I am going to post this information on hydrogen peroxide and free radical damage and attempt a layman's explanation. I am a highly trained professional and cringe when I see H2O2 recommended as any type of treatment. It is bad enough that Hydrogen Peroxide is the end result of normal body functions without ingesting more. H2O2 is a free radical generator in the body which can cause illness and diseases, like cancer.

I would seriously recommend not taking any type of hydrogen peroxide treatment. I have seen some major damage done to people who have taken it, animals would be no different. And this is my opinion.

Hi AddisonRose,

Could you give us a hint what kind of highly trained professional you are? I ask this with respect and interest.

Personally, I have used diluted H2O2 as a mouthwash/gargle for mouth infections. I also use the diluted h2o2 with my chickens. They were all losing their balance and dying. It seemed to stop whatever infection they were fighting because within a day, the rest of the live ones starting walking straight and became healthy. I have read a lot of information about the use of food grade h2o2 and it does intrigue me.

More information on your perspective would be great. If this is too much of a thread drift, we could begin another thread.

Thanks.
jmh

 

[stillprepping]

jmh,
"Could you give us a hint what kind of highly trained professional you are?"

with no disrespect intended to addison, i have to add that i've known so many 'trained professionals' who dont know what they're talking about. and i'm referring to phds, doctors, etc ..

i now rely upon MYSELF and MY EXPERIENCE to make all decisions. that is not to say i dont ask for, and consult, and listen to, and read of others opinions. but the bottom line is that *I* make the final decisions.

the reason so many people are so very sick today is because they listen to "health professionals" guided more by greed and evil than anything else. if it cant be treated by chemo, surgery, drugs, radiological, or some other money-making, hi-tech therapy .. many DOCTORS/HOSPITAL DONT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

quite sad, really ...

 

[AddisonRose]

stillprepping, of course free radicals occur with every breath we take, but the body is prepared metabolically to handle it as it happens, with little damage. However, as the body processes slow down as we age, the body's ability to handle free radicals diminish and the aging process begins naturally.

The consistent onslaught of "medicinal" H2O2 overwhelms the body's ability to convert the free radicals into harmless products. And, at some point, when available electrons -- from nutrient intake -- are being utilized to neutralize the free radical generation you have denied them what their true purpose is -- which is to feed the body in order to maintain its metabolic processes which are inherent to life. You begin to disrupt that process and your body will have a difficult time transcribing normal, healthy DNA.

And therein lies the damage -- by using hydrogen peroxide as an IV or even ingesting it can, and has been seen to, accelerate the body's aging process.

I use a dilute 3% H2O2 solution as a mouthwash daily also. But I am also eating fruits/vegetables and taking whole food supplements which is enabling the body to have available electrons to donate to the free radicals my body is generating by just living and using a mouthwash. Even bleaching your teeth can create free radical damage. It is inescapable.

In my opinion, and that is what it is because I do not give out advice over the internet, is that H2O2 is dangerous to human health. Animals, who knows, they have the same metabolic processes, their life span is short enough that maybe the results of free radical damage from H2O2 ingestion coincides with their death anyway. And yes, the increased amount of oxygen in any breathing entities' body does make them feel better.

But it is all an illusion, take it away and see if it has helped. It is not a solution, it is a masking of a symptom. The clue people, is to find the problem, and correct it -- not to mask it.

I hope this has helped clarify my opinion. AddisonRose

 

[AddisonRose]

jmh,
"Could you give us a hint what kind of highly trained professional you are?"

with no disrespect intended to addison, i have to add that i've known so many 'trained professionals' who dont know what they're talking about. and i'm referring to phds, doctors, etc ..

i now rely upon MYSELF and MY EXPERIENCE to make all decisions. that is not to say i dont ask for, and consult, and listen to, and read of others opinions. but the bottom line is that *I* make the final decisions.

the reason so many people are so very sick today is because they listen to "health professionals" guided more by greed and evil than anything else. if it cant be treated by chemo, surgery, drugs, radiological, or some other money-making, hi-tech therapy .. many DOCTORS/HOSPITAL DONT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

quite sad, really ...

Well thank you stillprepping for your assumption of my abilities as a trained professional. I believe my credentials will impress even you, but I do not have to justify myself to anyone.

jmh - You have a PM.

 

[yellowsprings]

Ok, you now have me curious about the diluted H2O2 for the chickens. Could you please give me dosages and why you are using this for the chickens?

My inquiring chickens want to know!!!

 

[AddisonRose]

Thanks AddisonRose... I do get worried when I read hydrogen peroxide being suggested, as well. It *sounds* like a good idea, but unfortunately most people don't understand the underlying chemistry and biological processes.

I'm not sure adding it to drinking water in an open container is going to be too damaging- or much use, either. Doesn't it change quite rapidly (degrade into something else?) on contact with air?

(and if I'm wrong, please correct me. It's been a LONG time since I read that organic chemistry book!)

SUmmerthyme

Summerthyme, it does readily break down to oxygen and water when exposed to air. Appreciated your input on this subject....as I have always respected the scope of your knowledge. AR

 

[AddisonRose]

On the soapbox....

It is sad that differences are not embraced on this board, and those differences of opinion are always challenged. Information is not about who is right and who is wrong.

Best advice I can give is to do your own homework people. Read, investigate, and ask questions. At the end of the day, the only person who has a stake in whether you survive or not, is you.


Off soapbox....

 

[stillprepping]

addison,
"It is sad that differences are not embraced on this board, and those differences of opinion are always challenged. Information is not about who is right and who is wrong."

would u mind expanding on this? i really dont follow what you're saying.

also - still waiting to hear about:
1)your h2o2 horror stories, and
2)your impressive credentials.

thanks much ..

 

[AddisonRose]

Well thank you stillprepping for your assumption of my abilities as a trained professional. I believe my credentials will impress even you, but I do not have to justify myself to anyone.

jmh - You have a PM.

Stillprepping, in case you missed it. I do not have to justify myself to you. Take it or leave it.

My comment was based on your attack on me questioning my expertise and credentials. All I am doing is informing people of the scientifically documented risk of H2O2 ingestion and/or infusion. I didn't attack you.

 

[stillprepping]

yellow,

i usually dilute 1 oz (35%) in a gal or two of water. the reasons i give it to them are severalfold: one is it keeps down diseases. two is it cuts down on bacteria in their water, especially during the hot summer. and three is it makes for better eggs <g>.

during a vicious 'bird flu' in the 1980s, farmers were losing many chickens while the amish - who make extensive use of diluted h2o2, didnt lose any.

like i said .. the proof is in the pudding.

 

[stillprepping]

addison,
"My comment was based on your attack on me questioning my expertise and credentials"

what attack!?

could it be: "with all due respect .. there are over 5,000 articles.."? that certainly wasnt an attack.

or maybe "with no disrespect intended to addison .. "? but that aint no attack either.

or maybe you're confusing it with jmh's "Could you give us a hint what kind of highly trained professional you are? I ask this with respect and interest"?

was that the major attack you're referring to???

all i asked was what major damage have you seen. because YOU SAID:

I have seen some major damage done to people who have taken it ..

and then you added:

I am a highly trained professional .. I believe my credentials will impress even you"

well okay .. maybe they will. i think theres a few of us waiting here with baited breath for your gracious offer to impress us all.

personally, i think nobody will hear a response to either.

 

[AnniePutin]

If you're going to state, "I am a highly trained individual" it seems that some qualification of that statement would be in order. I suspect you are a professional and that your opinions need to be laid out here and taken into consideration, but your defensiveness doesn't quite line up. Why not just answer the questions and get this important message in front of us?

 

[AddisonRose]

Stillprepping,

Excuse me, but I have a busy practice in addition to having a life outside of TB. I don't give a rat's behind what you think of me. Let's just say if I dished out some of the "medicinal" remedies you put out SP, my license would be jerked away. I have more science behind me than you can ever imagine. And you two (SP & AP) ever think that I don't want people asking me for advice once I cough up my credentials? You want more information, make an appointment, if you can afford my fee. I am done here.


PS: Oh and by the way, your attitude got you nothing. There are several people on this board who know who I am. See ya.

 

[yellowsprings]

***Official Mod Post***

SP,

AR stated that she was giving her "opinion", the same as you were giving yours. It is up to each of us to decide what to do with the information.

Even though AR was asked for her credentials by two members does not mean that she has to divulge this information. I would imagine in her field (where medical malpractice suits are rampant) she would not dole out any information that she may feel is not in anyone's best interest, including hers.

So everyone, lets just drop this as it is. The homesteading forum is a stress free place and needs to stay that way. Please don't let this degrade any further.

 

[stillprepping]

yellow,
"Please don't let this degrade any further."

i *also* asked what was all this 'major damage' addis has seen. not doubting anyone here .. JUST ASKING.

i take exception to your suggestion things are degrading. just trying to keep the forum 'honest' thats all. the next time someone decides to try to flaunt their reputation (not that it impresses anybody anyway) let them back it up.

theres an old expression that comes to mind, perhaps you've heard of it?

"put up or shut up"?

 

[stillprepping]

annie,
"If you're going to state, "I am a highly trained individual" it seems that some qualification of that statement would be in order .. your defensiveness doesn't quite line up."

thats putting it mildly!

 

[yellowsprings]

Moved to "Alternative Medicine for People and Pets".

 

[Herbmountain]

On ingesting H202. As I recall there is good information on this type of therapy but done under a doctors care. And there if food grade H202 that is used. It is food grade that is used. It is not the percent sold in stores in the first aide section. I think it is 2% that is used. The care under a doctors is called kelation therapy? It has been a while for me but I think this is the case. I would not put peroxide in the cats water either.

Remember cats are very good at long term utilization of water. They really concentrate it so if the dose was too strong, it would take hours to process the toxins and in that case you would have a very sick cat on top of a wounded paw.

 

[Brooks]

Yeah- I know most folks won't have calendula in the house

I sure do! It is a very important homeopathic remedy for first aid. Last time I cut myself, in an exuberant moment in the kitchen, and it was bleeding like crazy, I used calendula gel to help stop the bleeding, as an antiseptic, and to greatly speed healing of the wound. It really worked! Check out the following details about it. It can be used internally and externally for best effect:

http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/lewis-sports-injuries.asp

 

[summerthyme]

Herbie- Peroxide therapy has really horrendous possible side effects... far greater than most people would accept for "conventional" medicine, I suspect.

The "chelation" therapy with high potency H2O2 has created all sorts of problems from blood clots to strokes (IIRC) and more.

Actually, adding it to drinking water (especially the OTC strength) might be the only innocuous way to use it.... because it will very quickly degrade into plain water, with the extra oxygen gassing off into the air.

Brooks- I'm confused... both arnica and now, calendula, are sold as "homeopathic" remedies in gel form. I thought that homeopathic automatically meant the "active" principle was diluted into tiny, tiny potencies.

But both arnica and calendula are used in traditional herbal medicine as simples... using the whole herb or the herb in cream or other forms... as topical remedies.

Can you explain this for me?

Summerthyme

 

[Brooks]

Brooks- I'm confused... both arnica and now, calendula, are sold as "homeopathic" remedies in gel form. I thought that homeopathic automatically meant the "active" principle was diluted into tiny, tiny potencies.

Hi summerthyme! A homeopathic remedy is (to my understanding) anything prepared in accordance with homeopathic principles. There are two main steps, a dilution step and a potentizing step where the solution is VERY vigorously shaken. That occurs at each step in the dilution.

The "X" series means all the dilutions are 1:10, and the "C" series are dilutions of 1:100. Most of my home remedies are 30C, which means they have been diluted 1:100 thirty times, with the energizing step performed each time. I believe 12C is the point at which, statistically, it is unlikely based on Avogadro's Number, that any molecules remain.

As it happens, each of those dilutions, if also accompanied by the shaking, makes each dilution step more powerful than the one before. So, it is considered to be MORE potent with successive dilutions. 30C is considered the upper end of the lower potencies. Higher potencies usually range from 200C up through another series of scales.

So, the "active" ingredient in a homeopathic gel that states it is 1X (not uncommon for over the counter) will still have 10% material ingredient. It has also been energized, but just barely. However, because it has been energized, it may function less and less the way the raw (but diluted) herb might have. An alternative to calendula gel is a combination called HyperCal (calendula along with hypericum, that you know as St. John's Wort). Homeopathic hypericum is not especially known for helping depression. Rather, it is a terrific remedy for nerve injuries, like crushed fingers. So, applying hypercal to a wound can help with both the healing and the pain. (There are VERY few combination remedies that I will consider, that is one of them.)

I don't have any in front of me, but I think Zicam (the nasal spray for colds) is only 2X. That strikes me as just barely homeopathic. I think it has helped me somewhat in the past, but I'm having better luck with higher potency remedies taken internally.

 

[jmh]

Homeopathy is like cures like. So actually something can be homeopathic and in its basic, crude form. The problem with using crude doses is that the side effects are often as bad or worse than the disease. Especially if you are using remedies such as Arsenicum or a snake venom like Lachesis.

When Samuel Hahnemann first read about quinine and its use in malaria the orginial opinion was that the quinine worked because it was bitter. Hahnemann (the 'discoverer' of homeopathy) thought, that can't be right because he could think of lots of things that were equally bitter that didn't work. He took quinine himself and although he didn't have malaria he discovered that the quinine gave him the symptoms of malaria. So he surmised that what ever could induce certain symptoms in a healthy person would cure those same symptoms in a sick person.

Hahnemann (I think he knew six or seven languages) who was a physican and a chemist. He decided to try out his theory on 'well' subjects. He would give them doses of common items of the time like sulphur and arsenicum and then ask them for their symptoms and signs. He discovered that it made people sick so he tried diluting and it didn't work as well, but when he diluted AND hit the bottle firmly on a solid book, that the remedy became more effective.

jmh

 

[Herbmountain]

Brooks. You reminded me of another method of making substances for health. I for the life can't remember the name of the method. It was adding a substance into a deer horn and burrying it for a year or two. It is a fine art. Dang. Wish I could remember the name of the method.

 

[stillprepping]

summer,
"adding it to drinking water .. it will very quickly degrade into plain water, with the extra oxygen gassing off into the air"

if you drink it, its NOT going to 'gas off' into the air .. it'll be absorbed into your blood. and this happens quite quickly. i believe it takes only a few seconds and it can be chemically measured. one can actually 'feel' the oxygen effect within just a few seconds after ingesting. this wouldnt take place if it was "gassing off into the air".


"Peroxide therapy has really horrendous possible side effects"

someone else responded to this thread with the same statement, but refused to reply to my question for 'proof'.

would you care to provide something to substantiate this? with so much positive information on h2o2 therapy, its kinda difficult to believe UNLESS it was done irrationally.

 

[AddisonRose]

StillPrepping, how's this......you come back into this subject with more of an open mind to other ideas and not so intent on your's being the only one here that is correct. I will not attempt to convince you of anything, I will only put the information out there in a way all can understand. Ultimately everyone is responsible for their own health, and whatever modalities they choose to use, and whatever consequences may result.

I never run from a confrontation, but when someone does not have an open mind and challenges my intelligence, education and credentials, I do not have the time or patience.

So, if you are interested, I will try again to discuss the physiological effects of H2O2 therapies on the body. And maybe my choice of the word "seen" was misplaced, other than advanced aging seen due to DNA destruction from the hydrogenperoxide therapy, there are no other external signs because it is internal damage that is done, culiminating in death. And, unless autopies are done, most deaths are attributed to the underlying disease condition that led them to this therapy in the first place.

And, being the scientist that I am, I'd like to ask you to keep a daily log for about 6 months of how much H2O2 you ingest (with food, without food?), any vitamin supplementation taken, or other holistic therapies, how long the O2 high lasts, and any other physiological effects you feel or are aware of anywhere from 2-4 hours after ingestion. I personally would be interested as to why you are taking this therapy -- you are free to PM me.

Let me know if you are genuinely interested in my output, and I will take the time to respond later this weekend. AR