HEALTH Could sourdough bread be the answer to the gluten sensitivity epidemic?

Melodi

Disaster Cat
While I don't think it is a total solution, I know that many people can tolerate traditionally fermented grains that have trouble with commercial breads; especially when combined with older forms of wheat-related grains like Spelt, Kemet, Einkorn and even Durum Wheat (soft wheat used Italy and North Africa).
Could sourdough bread be the answer to the gluten sensitivity epidemic?

Sourdough prepared the old fashioned way, before added gluten and fast-rising yeast became the norm, may be one solution for those who can’t tolerate gluten
Could sourdough bread be the answer to gluten intolerance?
Could sourdough bread be the answer to gluten intolerance? Photograph: Jon Super for the Observer

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Olga Oksman

Wednesday 23 March 2016 17.28 GMT
Last modified on Friday 25 March 2016 01.26 GMT

“I would bet that if you took a dozen people who claimed gluten intolerance and you gave them Richard’s bread, they’d be fine,” says Michael Pollan in the third episode of his new Netflix food documentary, Cooked.

The bread he is referring to is a sourdough made the old fashioned way, with hours of fermentation and naturally occurring yeast found in the air by a baker named Richard Bourdon in rural Massachusetts. Bourdon and Pollan go on to explain the importance of proper fermentation of grains to aid in digestion. Pollan says a long fermentation process allows bacteria to fully break down the carbohydrates and gluten in bread, making it easier to digest and releasing the nutrients within it, allowing our bodies to more easily absorb them. Pollan hypothesizes that the speeding up of the bread-making process for mass consumption has so radically altered what we know as bread in the last century that it’s no longer as easily digested.

The idea of sourdough being easier to digest is an intriguing one, and has been making the rounds on blogs devoted to gluten-free eating. In 2011, a small study conducted in Italy tried giving volunteers with celiac disease a small amount of specially prepared sourdough bread. The subjects in the study seemed to react well to the sourdough, which had been fermented until the gluten within it was degraded. The study authors concluded it was not toxic to the celiac disease subjects.

So could bread prepared the slow old fashioned way, the way it was made before added gluten and fast-rising yeas became the norm, be a solution to the gluten intolerance epidemic? Maybe, is the short version of the complicated answer, according to leading celiac experts.

For those with true celiac disease, it is too soon to extrapolate the findings of a small study to changes in diet, cautions Joseph Murray, professor of medicine at the Mayo Clinic. “It may provide options for celiacs in the future,” says Murray, adding that he is not hopeful because of the safety margins needed. Just baking sourdough would not be enough. For the bread to be an option, there would have to be a way to work out the baking process so that the gluten is guaranteed to have uniformly degraded to the point where the bread could be tolerated in each batch.

For those with a less severe reaction, with what Pollan calls “gluten intolerance”, which is more commonly known as non-celiac gluten sensitivity, the sourdough process may increase tolerance for consuming the bread, says Alessio Fasano, director of the Center for Celiac Research at Massachusetts General Hospital. The long fermentation process to make sourdough bread the old fashioned way does reduce some of the toxic parts of gluten for those that react to it, says Peter Green, director of the Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University.
Gluten-free: health fad or life-saving diet?
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While sourdough’s degraded proteins are promising, gluten sensitivity remains mysterious. It’s a relatively new concept, and experts still aren’t sure what causes it. Celiac disease, on the other hand, has been thoroughly studied, says Murray, who refers to it as one of the best understood autoimmune disorders. Gluten sensitivity is another matter. People claiming gluten sensitivity started showing up at celiac centers within the last ten years or so, says Green. When patients first started coming into the clinic, saying they got sick from eating gluten and felt better when they stopped consuming it, with no evidence that they have celiac disease, doctors were skeptical.

Raising awareness of celiac disease has been a blessing and a curse, says Fasano. “We created this monster,” he says, referring to what happened when doctors tried to educate the public about celiac disease. While people now understand the autoimmune disease, and gluten-free products are readily available, the idea that gluten could be responsible for myriad health problems has grown out of control, says Fasano.

Celiac disease affects an estimated 1% of the population, though there is concern that the rate is rising. By comparison, an estimated 29% of people in the US are avoiding gluten in their diets. Gluten-free products are a huge business. Everywhere you go, everyone seems to know the name of a wheat protein no one outside the medical and science community could name twenty years ago.

Seizing on growing public awareness of celiac disease, books like Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health, and Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth About Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar – Your Brain’s Silent Killers further popularized the idea that gluten was the culprit in many ills. Popular books like these tend to generalize and skimp on the science, says Murray. When asked to comment on or review books like Wheat Belly, Murray simply says, “I am a scientist, it is not for me to make literary criticisms on works of fiction.”

Public awareness and self help are not the only culprits. Another reason the gluten-free movement has taken off has been the appeal of the idea of a simple fix to so many health issues, says Fasano. The appeal lies in the fact that no diagnosis or pill is needed, he explains. All a person needs to do is go on a diet, without even needing to see a doctor. At the same time, many alternative practitioners have started to prescribe gluten-free diets to their patients for a variety of ills, touting its health benefits, says Fasano, further popularizing the idea that someone could be sensitive to gluten without having celiac disease. The bulk of people on a gluten-free diet don’t have a reason to be on it, says Green, who points out that eating a lot of bread can make a person bloated without it being a “disease state”.

While a placebo effect seems to be at work for a lot of people, there are those that really do seem to be reacting to something in wheat without having celiac disease. Some people may experience bloating and flatulence in response to FODMAPs (fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides and polyols) instead of gluten. FODMAPs are a type of carbohydrates that are not well absorbed in the small intestine and are present in bread along with a number of other foods. For people with irritable bowel syndrome, which has some overlap in gastrointestinal symptoms with celiac disease, FODMAPs can exacerbate symptoms, says Murray.

The idea of FODMAPS as the possible culprit came from an Australian research group who accidentally helped popularize the idea of gluten sensitivity, adding fuel to the fire. In 2011, a study of people with irritable bowel syndrome found that subjects felt better when they ate a gluten-free diet. The same research group did a follow-up study, in which they put gluten sensitive subjects on a diet free of both gluten and FODMAPs until they felt better. They then gave some of the subjects gluten and found that they did not react to it, suggesting the problem was FODMAPs and not gluten.

But, says Murray, by that time “it was too late to stop this gluten sensitivity train: it had left the station”.

Fermentation during the sourdough process, intriguingly, also reduces FODMAP levels, according to Monash University, where the Australian studies of FODMAPs and gluten sensitivity took place. Breads made in the traditional sourdough process that are made with flours that are low in FODMAPs, like spelt – which does contain gluten – can be tolerated by people who have been shown to have FODMAP sensitivity.
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FODMAPs may not be the only explanation for the rise in people claiming gluten sensitivity. Wheat itself has not changed in the past 100 years, says Fasano, but there are a lot of vital gluten and enzymes being added to food, so it may be something else in bread or highly processed food that might be causing sensitivity to gluten. There are also theories that changes in our gut microbes could be causing increased reactions to wheat. Another theory is that people who claim gluten sensitivity are actually reacting to another protein in wheat – Murray points out that wheat is a “complicated food”, made up of many proteins.

In the meantime, rates of diagnosed celiac disease are on the rise, according to Murray. People continue to show up at celiac centers saying they are sensitive to gluten, while scientists try to figure out what they could be reacting to and narrow down what has changed in our environment or food. Processed foods are not tested for their impact on human health, so when new additives are introduced, their effect on human health is unknown.

The only decisive conclusion available about gluten sensitivity is that more research is needed.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...e-food-health-celiac-disease?CMP=share_btn_tw
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Why eat bread to begin with? Especially with health issues.

Judy

Well from a prepping standpoint if nothing else; intact grains are easy to store and can last in some conditions for thousands of years, also for at least 12,000 years humans have been adapted to eating them and now that cooked oats have been found from about 30,000 years ago in Europe; well we know the REAL Paleo Diet isn't anything like the modern diet version.

But mainly, if the modern world really does collapse both in terms of storage and what people in most locations will have to grow in order to have enough food to survive will include grains and breads are a traditional way of using them (by bread I include things like griddle cakes as well as sour, beer or salt rising loaves).

Not to mention that whole grain breads, FERMENTED with more traditional wheat varieties were a perfectly healthy diet for most Europeans up until the 20th century with people in the Middle Ages eating between 2 and 3 pounds of such bread a day (along with European beans, salt pork, eggs, beer (a healthier version than the modern stuff) and greens added in).

Only the very wealthy ate "white bread" and even that was just whole wheat flour shifted as fine as possible (like modern unbleached organic white flour is today).

Finally, a lot of people just like bread and knowing that it may be partly the WAY it is being made rather than the fact that it is bread that is the problem; can be very helpful, again I wouldn't bother with modern commercial flours even for sour dough as they take everything out and are often tweaked with chemicals and fillers.

But making products with fermented grains (and knowing how to do it) may be a lifesaver if things really got bad; bad enough that people might be forced to eat bread (as they were in the Middle Ages or even the 19th century on the frontier) like it or not; fermenting may be the difference in food that keeps you going and food that makes you too sick to function.

I feel the same way about beans; it is a very good idea to eat them at least once a week (again better if soaked and properly cooked) because that will keep most people with bodies that can tolerate them; and while it sounds wildly funny in an elementary school sort of way to think of lots of folks clinging to the wind up radio for news while holding their stomachs and racing to the privy; it won't be fun at all if most of your survival group is gripped with horrific cramps and the bad guys are coming.

Again, a few people just plain can't eat beans and some people especially in Ireland (where for 500 years the starch was potatoes) can't tolerate wheat at all; but knowing that fermenting them the old fashioned way (the way they were originally eaten, usually they were at least soaked overnight even for gruel) I think is a very important survival skill.
 

Be Well

may all be well
Wheat has been used basically since time immemorial, and gluten sensitivity is known as celiac disease, it is genetic. Some quick searches:

https://www.beyondceliac.org/celiac-disease/facts-and-figures/

More:

https://www.cureceliacdisease.org/wp-content/uploads/341_CDCFactSheets8_FactsFigures.pdf

Celiac Disease Facts and Figures

Celiac disease is an inherited autoimmune disorder that
affects the digestive process of the small intestine. When
a person who has celiac disease consumes gluten, a
protein found in wheat, rye and barley, the individual’s
immune system responds by attacking the small intestine
and inhibiting the absorption of important nutrients into
the body. Undiagnosed and untreated, celiac disease can
lead to the development of other autoimmune disorders,
as well as osteoporosis, infertility, neurological conditions
and in rare cases, cancer.

Prevalence of Celiac Disease in the
United States

In average healthy people: 1 in 133

In people with related symptoms: 1 in 56

In people with first-degree relatives
(parent, child, sibling) who are celiac: 1
in 22

In people with second-degree relatives
(aunt, uncle, cousin) who are celiac: 1 in
39

Estimated prevalence for African-,
Hispanic- and Asian-Americans: 1 in 236

In the landmark prevalence study on
celiac disease, investigators determined
that 60% of children and 41% of
adults diagnosed during the study were
asymptomatic (without any symptoms).

During the prevalence study, researchers
found that 21% of patients with a positive
anti-endomysial antibody test could not
receive a biopsy due to the refusal of their
physician to perform the procedure or the
insurance company to pay for it.

Only 35% of newly diagnosed patients
had chronic diarrhea, dispelling the myth
that diarrhea must be present to diagnose
celiac disease


Celiac disease affects at least 3 million
Americans.

The average length of time it takes for a
symptomatic person to be diagnosed with
celiac disease in the US is four years;
this type of delay dramatically increases
an individual’s risk of developing
autoimmune disorders, neurological
problems, osteoporosis and even cancer.

Due to the fact that gluten intolerance is celiac disease, which is pretty rare, and more and more people experience or think they experience gluten intolerance, there is obviously more going on. The sourdough theory may be somewhat explanatory, but I think there is more to it. Fad ailments are also a factor. But imho most people who feel "icky" after eating wheat or bread are reacting to NON-organic wheat, as well as other ingredients in the baked goods they are eating. I have read of people who can eat bread or wheat products in Europe without any problem, but not American bread. No glycophates or whatever Round Up is, are used in Europe, and I think that is likely a lot of the problem.

Additionally, unless one is extremely picky and cautious, all bread products other than strictly organic, not only use wheat likely sprayed with Round Up, but also have a myriad of strange ingredients, often a long list of unpronouncable chemicals. A few years ago one lady told me she can never eat bread without digestive problems so I gave her a loaf of my home made bread, made with organic flour, yeast, salt and water. She loved it and said she had no problems. I also use a no knead method that uses less yeast than other recipes, but have since started the "Turbo" no knead method that uses a bit more, but still not as much as regular recipes.

Wheat has been called the staff of life for a reason.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Yep there is a difference between true celiac disease (like my friend who lived here when she was pregnant had, and her daughter has) and the wheat/gluten "intolerance" that may in some cases be related to modern wheat and in other cases be related to things like spraying glcosophate all over North American wheat (and a lot of other grain crops) hours before harvesting (even though if you buy a bottle of Round Up for you Garden it will say "do not use right before harvesting).

Many people had already discovered, sometimes by accident that just eating bread that is home made and created from organic flour solves the problem; and the link between fermented bread (including again things like waffles, muffins or even cookies) and better outcomes is also becoming known.

For most of human history in areas that had wheat (or rye) as their main staples; bread was made either from letting it soak over night with a "starter" which was either natural liquid yeast or a piece of yesterday's bread dough; or it was raised by the natural yeast in old-fashioned brewed beers or ale. Salt rising bread also existed but was less popular and not as common in European cooking ancient or modern.

Husband tells me there is as yet no really easy way to test for actual celiac disease without a biopsy; though there are blood tests now that can suggest that a person may have it but they are not yet totally accurate.

Most people have to self diagnose and this is where the problems come in; as I've mentioned before I got really-really sick in the US after eating a lot of food especially wheat products that stopped as soon as I got to where I could eat organic. If we hadn't moved away I might think I was wheat intolerant because even my home made bread might have been made with wheat I didn't realize was being sprayed with pesticide right before harvest and of course if you are reacting to something you feel better when you stop.

But living over here, for years the only way I could even get big sacks of flour in bulk was to order organic from the health food shop; which is why I KNEW I had no actual wheat intolerance.

Now my friend, if she gets even a bit of wheat; like when the Japanese place we were eating at had a lazy cook who lied and said his soy sauce was wheat free, she will swell up in five minutes to where she looks 5 months pregnant. Give her an allergy pill and it will go down some, but she will still feel sick and weak for at least 24 hours; and one of her daughters is the same the other has no reactions (doctors here list odds at 50/50).
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
In the 1960s wheat in Canada was modified to produce a shorter stalk and more grain in the head - there is a second protein called gliadin in the what which is very hard to digest.

Since going from wheat and a paleo diet to get rid of the inflammation caused by it, I now eat just rye/pumpernickel, which doesn't have gliadin.

A lot of the gluten "allergy" may be due to gliadin indigestibilty not gluten. My husband was diagnosed celiac as a child but could eat wheat but not corn......which doesn't make sense either, but if he stays away from bread (he won't eat rye - just liked to drink it in the olden days) he doesn't produce as much phlegm which is bad for his condition.
 

TerriHaute

Hoosier Gardener
cause you cant have toast without it. gotta have toast.

Exactly. I only eat one very small piece of toast occasionally since trying to cut down on carbs, but it really makes breakfast enjoyable. I make sourdough bread the old fashioned way without any added yeast. I mix up the sponge with just sourdough starter, flour, and water one day and let it rise overnight. The next morning I add more flour, salt, and a small amount of honey or sugar and let it rise all day, baking it late afternoon for dinner. Many sourdough recipes I see on the internet include regular yeast which seems like it is defeating the purpose. DH has digestive issues and sourdough doesn't cause any flareups.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
The only reason to add regular yeast to a sour dough bread is to get a faster rise; I do this sometimes when making bread for my husband to take with him on his week's away and I've run out of time; but letting the whole mass raise slowly even after adding the extra flour will help all the loaf ferment to some extend; but using yeast to fast raise it will in fact stop that from happening - you get some flour that is fermented and other that isn't.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
For a few years I figured my loss of energy was likely due to Lyme disease, but after doing a few years of herbal protocol (per Healing Lyme by Dr. Stephen Bueller), I ran across a reference that claimed that gluten could cause chronic fatigue. We started grinding our own organic Einkorn flour (ancient wheat) for all my bread, crackers, and ( and toast!) and my energy has slowly returned...
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
Making sourdough bread with wheat flour doesn't work if you have celiac disease (I've tried it). It is possible to make sourdough bread with other flours, but we have learned to get along without bread just fine. The only problem I have is when I smell bread baking, LOL!

Kathleen
 

West

Senior
I love sourdough bread.....
To make BLTs and soak up some of the grease with the crust.
But I only do that with sourdough, so its healthy.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Making sourdough bread with wheat flour doesn't work if you have celiac disease (I've tried it). It is possible to make sourdough bread with other flours, but we have learned to get along without bread just fine. The only problem I have is when I smell bread baking, LOL!

Kathleen

yeah, with true celiac disease this is the most likely outcome; some people can tolerate small amounts of fermented spelt and other proto-wheat plants but most can't; some can tolerate rye, others like my friend can't eat rye either.

But the less serious or milder versions of "intolerance" often can eat fermented wheat and rye at least on some occasions; everyone is different, but I am working on making more and more of our wheat products fermented simply because I think that it is good practice; which doesn't mean I don't make non fermented cakes and the like but then neither my husband nor I have issues with organic wheat; even Canadian red wheat.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
I used Red Fife wheat which was a heritage strain from the 1860s and brought to Canada from Scotland.......and didn't have the gliadin protein (or anything that upset me).
 

2Trish

Veteran Member
Just bought a package of San Francisco Sourdough Starter. Haven't "started" it yet and I need to find a good simple recipe.
 

Bubble Head

Has No Life - Lives on TB
We make our bread with part wheat, rye, and barley. All ground with the Wonder Mill. I always add a cup of sourdough to work on it as it generates enzymes and adds to the breads life. Sourdough really breaks down the grains. I also mix some honey, water, butter and a little regular yeast to proof for a faster rise. Our altitude inhibits the bread from rising. I like a full bread because I like my toast. This mixture comes out great. Sourdough is the ticket with grains and like Melodi said grains store for thousands of years.
You can also put some sourdough in one and half cups of flour over night with some milk and have a great pancake batter for breakfast. Lots of ways to use it but remember it takes on the flavor of the area you are in and the water you use. I don't think it works well with city water because of the chlorine but well water or bottled water is fine.
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Making sourdough bread with wheat flour doesn't work if you have celiac disease (I've tried it). It is possible to make sourdough bread with other flours, but we have learned to get along without bread just fine. The only problem I have is when I smell bread baking, LOL!

Kathleen
My friend made a couple loafs of sourdough some years back. We threw it down warm and buttered, it was good. I then proceeded to have mile long farts a few hours later, followed by ten days of diarrhea..... Diagnosed as celiac. Ended with osteoporosis due to this. It's cleared up with a regimen of Vitamin D and Calcium. I have Rosacea now, I think it's a product of the blood thinner I'm on due to a DVT, genetics and Celiac. My dad has skin issues, but not Rosacea.

So one should not brush this off, and I had no symptoms, other than never really gaining weight though I ate like a horse, but I played like one too.

Now, if I make a mistake, I know it in my gut within the hour.

Can be dangerous if not dealt with.
 

nomifyle

TB Fanatic
Well from a prepping standpoint if nothing else; intact grains are easy to store and can last in some conditions for thousands of years, also for at least 12,000 years humans have been adapted to eating them and now that cooked oats have been found from about 30,000 years ago in Europe; well we know the REAL Paleo Diet isn't anything like the modern diet version.

But mainly, if the modern world really does collapse both in terms of storage and what people in most locations will have to grow in order to have enough food to survive will include grains and breads are a traditional way of using them (by bread I include things like griddle cakes as well as sour, beer or salt rising loaves).

Not to mention that whole grain breads, FERMENTED with more traditional wheat varieties were a perfectly healthy diet for most Europeans up until the 20th century with people in the Middle Ages eating between 2 and 3 pounds of such bread a day (along with European beans, salt pork, eggs, beer (a healthier version than the modern stuff) and greens added in).

Only the very wealthy ate "white bread" and even that was just whole wheat flour shifted as fine as possible (like modern unbleached organic white flour is today).

Finally, a lot of people just like bread and knowing that it may be partly the WAY it is being made rather than the fact that it is bread that is the problem; can be very helpful, again I wouldn't bother with modern commercial flours even for sour dough as they take everything out and are often tweaked with chemicals and fillers.

But making products with fermented grains (and knowing how to do it) may be a lifesaver if things really got bad; bad enough that people might be forced to eat bread (as they were in the Middle Ages or even the 19th century on the frontier) like it or not; fermenting may be the difference in food that keeps you going and food that makes you too sick to function.

I feel the same way about beans; it is a very good idea to eat them at least once a week (again better if soaked and properly cooked) because that will keep most people with bodies that can tolerate them; and while it sounds wildly funny in an elementary school sort of way to think of lots of folks clinging to the wind up radio for news while holding their stomachs and racing to the privy; it won't be fun at all if most of your survival group is gripped with horrific cramps and the bad guys are coming.

Again, a few people just plain can't eat beans and some people especially in Ireland (where for 500 years the starch was potatoes) can't tolerate wheat at all; but knowing that fermenting them the old fashioned way (the way they were originally eaten, usually they were at least soaked overnight even for gruel) I think is a very important survival skill.

Excellent points about breads, and also about beans. Thanks. Only bread I eat from time to time is sprouted bread (ezekiel) and as much as I love beans, they are not my friends because of the carbs. But I may bite the bullet so to speak and eat 1/2 c. a week.

Judy

Judy
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
My friend made a couple loafs of sourdough some years back. We threw it down warm and buttered, it was good. I then proceeded to have mile long farts a few hours later, followed by ten days of diarrhea..... Diagnosed as celiac. Ended with osteoporosis due to this. It's cleared up with a regimen of Vitamin D and Calcium. I have Rosacea now, I think it's a product of the blood thinner I'm on due to a DVT, genetics and Celiac. My dad has skin issues, but not Rosacea.

So one should not brush this off, and I had no symptoms, other than never really gaining weight though I ate like a horse, but I played like one too.

Now, if I make a mistake, I know it in my gut within the hour.

Can be dangerous if not dealt with.

Pastor is the same way, having been diagnosed as celiac a few years go. He did the changes he needed to do for diet and he is living a LOT more comfortably. Though, because of his celiac status, he needs bilateral total hip replacement and, unlike most folks, who MIGHT have fine responses when they needed replacements after 15 years, his pelvis is effectively dead bone. He'll get ONE set of replacements and then a wheel chair in 10-15 years. Considering he's an *A*V*I*D*(!!!!) motorcyclist this will come close to just killin' him.

At this point, riding the saddle on his bike (BMW grrrr) is the most comfortable way to travel.....sitting is pain, literally.
 

Be Well

may all be well
Does everyone with celiac disease get oteorporosis, or just more prone to it? Does eating a gluten free diet help prevent the osteo?
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Does everyone with celiac disease get oteorporosis, or just more prone to it? Does eating a gluten free diet help prevent the osteo?
To answer your question, NO. What happens is based on the fact you no longer are pulling the nutrients out of food as the intestines are basically gummed up. This leads to a myriad of issues, and ailments. That is one of the unique issues in the diagnosis of what ails you. People have a certain ailment, could be what has been mentioned, or about anything else. Once the body stops feeding itself, who knows what is going to pop up.

That's why it's so important to be tested for this. Damage could be in play, and you likely are clueless.

I personally believe it all hinges on the fact, our bread is not the bread of our forefathers. It's totally been redesigned and modified, in the process, it has become a bad bad thing. Much like GMO corn.

If you know anyone who has an ailment that they can't diagnosis it's cause, check for Celiac. All kinds of things fall into this category.
 
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