Misc Dead geese fall from the sky after ‘freak accident’

NC Susan

Deceased
http://nypost.com/2018/04/10/dead-geese-fall-from-the-sky-after-freak-accident/

Dead geese fall from the sky after ‘freak accident’

By Jennifer Earl
A gaggle of geese was found dead in a parking lot in Idaho Falls, Idaho, in what wildlife officials are calling a “freak accident.” The 51 birds were clumped together, soaking wet, as golf ball-sized hail rained down on them during a thunderstorm Saturday night.

But it’s not the hail that killed the birds as they migrated north, officials with the Idaho Department of Fish and Game (IDFG) said — it’s most likely lightning that caused them to fall from the sky.

“I don’t think it was the hail or wind,” James Brower, regional volunteer services coordinator with IDFG, told Fox News. “Hail would have injured the geese. They’d still be alive. All of these were dead. When the officer arrived nothing was moving or twitching.”

IDFG officer Jacob Berl was the only officer to respond to the scene that night. He said the birds — 48 snow geese and three ross geese — were all centrally located within a 100-yard radius, which is further proof that lightning likely caused their deaths.

“He opened a few up and saw their lungs were exploded,” Brower added.

While it was a shocking sight, Brower said it’s not completely uncommon. Wildlife officials in the area often respond to calls of mass die-offs, though it’s usually due to disease.

“Mother nature is sometimes cruel to the wildlife kingdom. We worry about accidents with cars and truck — sometimes animals are affected just by the weather,” Brower said.

In his nearly eight years of working with the wildlife department, Brower said he’s never seen a case quite like this, though. A “perfect storm” of events — the timing, wind and direction of flight — all contributed to the deadly incident.

Fortunately, it doesn’t have a population level effect on snow geese in the area, Brower said. Idaho is a popular state for birds to fly over as they migrate north in the spring.

“Up to 60,000 snow geese, white-fronted geese and other waterfowl use the WMA [Wildlife Management Area] as a stop over on their northern flights,” IDFG revealed in a March 2017 post online. “The birds typically leave warmer climes ranging from Baja Mexico to northern California and follow the snow line north.”

Regardless, Brower said no one wants to see an animal die.

“It’s always sad; it’s never something you want to see,” he commented.

In order to better understand what happened to the flock of geese Saturday, wildlife officials will send several off for necropsies to determine an official cause of death.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
Lung explosion doesn't sound like lightening. This sounds like what would happen if an animal or human tried to hold their breath during sudden decompression in a vacuum which would cause the lungs to explode.
Some further info;

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19730006364.pdf
Page 5;

Some degree of consciousness will probably be retained for 9 to 11 seconds (see chapter 2 under Hypoxia). In rapid sequence thereafter, paralysis will be followed by generalized convulsions and paralysis once again. During this time, water vapor will form rapidly in the soft tissues and somewhat less rapidly in the venous blood. This evolution of water vapor will cause marked swelling of the body to perhaps twice its normal volume unless it is restrained by a pressure suit. (It has been demonstrated that a properly fitted elastic garment can entirely prevent ebullism at pressures as low as 15 mm Hg absolute [Webb, 1969, 1970].) Heart rate may rise initially, but will fall rapidly thereafter. Arterial blood pressure will also fall over a period of 30 to 60 seconds, while venous pressure rises due to distention of the venous system by gas and vapor. Venous pressure will meet or exceed arterial pressure within one minute. There will be virtually no effective circulation of blood. After an initial rush of gas from the lungs during decompression, gas and water vapor will continue to flow outward through the airways. This continual evaporation of water will cool the mouth and nose to near-freezing temperatures; the remainder of the body will also become cooled, but more slowly.

"Cook and Bancroft (1966) reported occasional deaths of animals due to fibrillation of the heart during the first minute of exposure to near vacuum conditions. Ordinarily, however, survival was the rule if recompression occurred within about 90 seconds. ... Once heart action ceased, death was inevitable, despite attempts at resuscitation....

[on recompression] "Breathing usually began spontaneously... Neurological problems, including blindness and other defects in vision, were common after exposures (see problems due to evolved gas), but usually disappeared fairly rapidly.

"It is very unlikely that a human suddenly exposed to a vacuum would have more than 5 to 10 seconds to help himself. If immediate help is at hand, although one's appearance and condition will be grave, it is reasonable to assume that recompression to a tolerable pressure (200 mm Hg, 3.8 psia) within 60 to 90 seconds could result in survival, and possibly in rather rapid recovery.

That discussion covers the effect of vacuum exposure only. In it, it assumes no attempts to hold breath are made. For holding breath, the analog of a balloon suddenly exposed to vacuum applies. I.E. exploding lungs. A lightening strike will super heat the tissue and burn it, not explode it.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
A decent supercell thunderstorm can have updrafts exceeding 100 mph. The updraft can reach up to 40,000+ feet altitude.

Large hail will demonstrate successive layers inside of the hailstone indicating that the hail stone freezes, begins to fall from it's weight and is again thrown upward by the updraft creating another layer of the hailstone. Eventually the hailstone becomes too heavy to stay aloft and falls to the ground.

Imagine a bird caught in this updraft cycle and furiously struggling, unable to escape.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
A decent supercell thunderstorm can have updrafts exceeding 100 mph. The updraft can reach up to 40,000+ feet altitude.

Large hail will demonstrate successive layers inside of the hailstone indicating that the hail stone freezes, begins to fall from it's weight and is again thrown upward by the updraft creating another layer of the hailstone. Eventually the hailstone becomes too heavy to stay aloft and falls to the ground.

Imagine a bird caught in this updraft cycle and furiously struggling, unable to escape.

That doesn't explain the reported lung explosion damage.
 

Snyper

Veteran Member
That doesn't explain the reported lung explosion damage.
There's no real reason to believe that's what he saw either.

It's just what some reporter said, and they are famous for getting facts wrong.

He could have witnessed trauma from the shockwave of a thunderclap combined with low pressure and hail damage.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Not just what the reporter said. Fish & Game officer, went looking:

IDFG officer Jacob Berl was the only officer to respond to the scene that night. He said the birds — 48 snow geese and three ross geese — were all centrally located within a 100-yard radius, which is further proof that lightning likely caused their deaths.

“He opened a few up and saw their lungs were exploded,” Brower added.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
Not just what the reporter said. Fish & Game officer, went looking:

Found Mr. Berl's email. I've asked if he could confirm the lung explosion and if there was anything else odd about it. I'll report back if he replies.
 

Snyper

Veteran Member
Not just what the reporter said. Fish & Game officer, went looking:

I'm not seeing a quote from the officer. I'm seeing a quote from someone who wasn't on the scene.

IDFG officer Jacob Berl was the only officer to respond to the scene that night.
The "exploded lungs" comment is hearsay from someone who didn't see anything themselves.
The officer there said he thought it was from "lightning".
If he had simply said "lung trauma" it would have been more accurate without all the implications of something abnormal.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
I'm not seeing a quote from the officer. I'm seeing a quote from someone who wasn't on the scene.


The "exploded lungs" comment is hearsay from someone who didn't see anything themselves.
The officer there said he thought it was from "lightning".
If he had simply said "lung trauma" it would have been more accurate without all the implications of something abnormal.

You almost have to be a lawyer or want to be.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Found Mr. Berl's email. I've asked if he could confirm the lung explosion and if there was anything else odd about it. I'll report back if he replies.

I'll be interested in hearing anything if you get a reply.

Summerthyme
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
No, I just don't get overly excited due to one word in a short report about some dead birds killed in a violent storm.

But apparently enough to warrant snide remarks when no one was definitively stating anything. Rather only commenting on something that seemed odd to them.
 

Snyper

Veteran Member
But apparently enough to warrant snide remarks when no one was definitively stating anything. Rather only commenting on something that seemed odd to them.

There's nothing "snide" in anything I said.
That's your incorrect interpretation.

I simply offered a more logical explanation that doesn't involve "exploded lungs".
It makes no difference to me whether or not you agree.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
I'll be interested in hearing anything if you get a reply.

Summerthyme

I did in fact hear from him. The lung damage and apparently other organ damage (stomach) was consistent with a high speed impact whole body. No one there has any idea why, and folks (including the game department) are apparently 'filling' in details. No one was paying any attention to the ground where they were found. When asked, there was no recollection of those conditions. There was no recollection of anything burnt either.

Since we have an armchair lawyer in the thread, I'll let y'all make of that what you will.
 

Snyper

Veteran Member
The lung damage and apparently other organ damage (stomach) was consistent with a high speed impact whole body
So impact trauma is a more accurate description than "exploded lungs".


Since we have an armchair lawyer in the thread, I'll let y'all make of that what you will.

All the truly "snide remarks" continue to be from you alone.
 
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