SCI Did archaeologists find the Trojan Horse?

[Melodi]

When I first saw this headline I was extremely skeptical - archeologists (especially in some places) love to make fantastical claims that sound exciting to the public, but then I got chills when I read the last paragraph as that plaque/inscription I believe is referred to in the ancient sources. So, if it isn't a hoax (always has to be considered)exactly what the possibility of finding "The Trojan Horse" right now is I'm not sure, but I suspect somewhere Casandra is trying to say something....Melodi

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Did archaeologists find the Trojan Horse?
Turkish archaeologists excavating the site of the city of Troy on the hills of Hisarlik have discovered a large wooden structure that they believe are the remains of the famous Trojan Horse.
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF
AUGUST 10, 2021 17:22

Depiction of the story of the Trojan horse in the art of Gandhara. British Museum.
(photo credit: Wikimedia Commons)


Archaeologists who claimed they had unearthed remnants of the legendary Trojan Horse in Turkey have now found significant evidence that further supports their claim, according to an article by the Greek Reporter.

Turkish archaeologists excavating the site of the city of Troy on the hills of Hisarlik have discovered a large wooden structure that they believe are the remains of the Trojan Horse. These excavations include dozens of fir planks and beams up to 15 meters (49 feet) long, assembled in a strange form.

The wooden structure was found inside the walls of the ancient city of Troy.




Now, Boston University professors Christine Morris and Chris Wilson believe that "the carbon dating tests and other analyses have all suggested that the wooden pieces and other artifacts date from the 12th or 11th centuries BC."


Morris and Wilson believe with a "high level of confidence" that the structure is linked to the iconic horse. They say that tests have only confirmed their theory.


“This matches the dates cited for the Trojan War, by many ancient historians like Eratosthenes or Proclus. The assembly of the work also matches the description made by many sources. I don’t want to sound overconfident, but I’m pretty certain that we found the real thing!”

The Trojan Horse is associated with the Trojan War, written about by Homer in his epic poems the Iliad and the Odyssey. The Iliad closes right before the war ends, so it does not feature the legendary horse.

The Trojan Horse was used to seize Troy and win the war. The story was prominently featured in the Aeneid by Virgil. Historians have suggested that the horse was an analogy for a war machine or natural disaster.

Archaeologists also discovered a damaged bronze plate with the inscription, “For their return home, the Greeks dedicate this offering to Athena.” Quintus Smyrnaeus refers to this plate in his epis poem "Posthomerica."

 

[NoDandy]

Fascinating !

 

[The Cub]

sorry.....not buying it.

 

[Housecarl]

Considering the number of "Troy" settlements on the site, it could possibly be from much later after the events of the Iliad; perhaps placed by Greeks passing through as a memorial.

 

[Melodi]

Considering the number of "Troy" settlements on the site, it could possibly be from much later after the events of the Iliad; perhaps placed by Greeks passing through as a memorial.

Nightwolf and I are trying to get more information (I sent it to a friend in the field) because there is another fascinating possibility that most modern people won't think of.

That is a Roman-era "hoax" designed for the tourist trade!

The best way to sort that one would be a combination of how the bronze was made (there are some differences between the actual Bronze Age and the Iron Age) and even more to the point the exact sort of Greek in the inscription.

It is fairly early Greek, or the Greek used during the Roman period?

Most modern people unless they read a lot of history or really well-researched novels like Falco or Medicus have no idea that the Roman world during the empire had a huge tourist trade. And "ancient" sites like Troy would be high on the list for any young senator's son "touring the empire" before or just after his required time as a military officer.

Rich merchants and their families would be awed by visiting the glories of Egypt or their cousins in Gaul and a side trip to Britannia. Yeah, it took months rather than hours but wealthy people did it anyway and as in every era there were plenty of people whose livelihood involved keeping them happy with real or imagined sites of interest.

It is also possible that this story out of Troy is totally real and that once again "Homer was right," as he was about many things. Or at least the people who first composed or recorded the oral history of Troy remembered it correctly for a few centuries, which isn't that uncommon around the world either.

But there is a weird story out of the Middle Ages that makes me wonder about the Roman Tourist trade. In the Middle Ages, the story of King Arthur was just as popular as it is now if not more so. Pilgrimages (a form of religious tourism) were a major source of entertainment and travel during the day, everyone from peasants to kings usually went on at least one sometime during their life if they could.

Relics of Saints and famous people were the best money-makers with Cathedrals and towns competing for the best "draw."

In about the year 1200 AD, the monks at Glastonbury suddenly "discovered" a "tomb" with the remains of a "man and women" and a plaque/inscription saying something like "Here lies King Arthur and his Queen Guinevere."

Needless to say, this became a very-very popular tourist..er..a..I mean pilgrimage site, with even reigning royalty coming to visit their "ancestors."

While this continues to this day, most historians (and even the Glastonbury tourist office) know this probably really isn't the actual grave of the historical King Arthur (if he ever even existed) but was a forgery (or perhaps wishful thinking) on the part of someone over 1,000 years ago.

Which still makes it part of archeology (as would a Roman-era "Trojan Horse") but not quite the discovery it may look like (at first).

Early days, I'll see what people with better connections can find out and report back on this.

Arthur's Tomb - Glastonbury Abbey Archaeology

John Leland’s description After the exhumation in 1191, the remains of Arthur and Guinevere were placed in a tomb in the abbey church. This was the tomb which was opened...Read More >

research.reading.ac.uk

 

[Housecarl]

Nightwolf and I are trying to get more information (I sent it to a friend in the field) because there is another fascinating possibility that most modern people won't think of.

That is a Roman-era "hoax" designed for the tourist trade!

The best way to sort that one would be a combination of how the bronze was made (there are some differences between the actual Bronze Age and the Iron Age) and even more to the point the exact sort of Greek in the inscription.

It is fairly early Greek, or the Greek used during the Roman period?

Most modern people unless they read a lot of history or really well-researched novels like Falco or Medicus have no idea that the Roman world during the empire had a huge tourist trade. And "ancient" sites like Troy would be high on the list for any young senator's son "touring the empire" before or just after his required time as a military officer.

Rich merchants and their families would be awed by visiting the glories of Egypt or their cousins in Gaul and a side trip to Britannia. Yeah, it took months rather than hours but wealthy people did it anyway and as in every era there were plenty of people whose livelihood involved keeping them happy with real or imagined sites of interest.

It is also possible that this story out of Troy is totally real and that once again "Homer was right," as he was about many things. Or at least the people who first composed or recorded the oral history of Troy remembered it correctly for a few centuries, which isn't that uncommon around the world either.

But there is a weird story out of the Middle Ages that makes me wonder about the Roman Tourist trade. In the Middle Ages, the story of King Arthur was just as popular as it is now if not more so. Pilgrimages (a form of religious tourism) were a major source of entertainment and travel during the day, everyone from peasants to kings usually went on at least one sometime during their life if they could.

Relics of Saints and famous people were the best money-makers with Cathedrals and towns competing for the best "draw."

In about the year 1200 AD, the monks at Glastonbury suddenly "discovered" a "tomb" with the remains of a "man and women" and a plaque/inscription saying something like "Here lies King Arthur and his Queen Guinevere."

Needless to say, this became a very-very popular tourist..er..a..I mean pilgrimage site, with even reigning royalty coming to visit their "ancestors."

While this continues to this day, most historians (and even the Glastonbury tourist office) know this probably really isn't the actual grave of the historical King Arthur (if he ever even existed) but was a forgery (or perhaps wishful thinking) on the part of someone over 1,000 years ago.

Which still makes it part of archeology (as would a Roman-era "Trojan Horse") but not quite the discovery it may look like (at first).

Early days, I'll see what people with better connections can find out and report back on this.

Arthur's Tomb - Glastonbury Abbey Archaeology

John Leland’s description After the exhumation in 1191, the remains of Arthur and Guinevere were placed in a tomb in the abbey church. This was the tomb which was opened...Read More >

research.reading.ac.uk

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind as well, along the lines of what happened to Sparta after incorporation into the Empire.

 

[Hognutz]

I wish they would find wood at Gobekli Tepe.

 

[Melodi]

I wish they would find wood at Gobekli Tepe.

I think they did find a tiny bit, it was that or charcoal (I'll have to see if I can find the references) which is how they got the shock of the very early dating (12000 to 14000 years ago).

And they haven't excavated 90 percent of the site, some of which may be older. In reality, while I'd love to see more, with the situation in Turkey being what it is, I am kind of glad most of it is still buried and that the Turkish government seems utterly uninterested in going any further than covering the existing excavation site with a cover and promoting tourist buses to visit it.

My understanding is that most actual work on the site has stopped (for now) but I am glad to know that even if Islamic extremists decide to bomb or destroy the tiny uncovered part, short of a major blast (like a nuke) the rest of the site will be there to excavate for future generations.

 

[WalknTrot]

I saw this yesterday...no photos yet, which sorta made me wonder. Also, a wooden artifact, even in that climate...?
Agree - the final paragraph and the bronze plate are pretty amazing. Still..I want pictures!

 

[Hognutz]

I think they did find a tiny bit, it was that or charcoal (I'll have to see if I can find the references) which is how they got the shock of the very early dating (12000 to 14000 years ago).

And they haven't excavated 90 percent of the site, some of which may be older. In reality, while I'd love to see more, with the situation in Turkey being what it is, I am kind of glad most of it is still buried and that the Turkish government seems utterly uninterested in going any further than covering the existing excavation site with a cover and promoting tourist buses to visit it.

My understanding is that most actual work on the site has stopped (for now) but I am glad to know that even if Islamic extremists decide to bomb or destroy the tiny uncovered part, short of a major blast (like a nuke) the rest of the site will be there to excavate for future generations.

Sad , but I am glad they are leaving it covered, at least all of it won’t go the way of the Buddha’s the Islamist destroyed..

 

[Melodi]

Sad , but I am glad they are leaving it covered, at least all of it won’t go the way of the Buddha’s the Islamist destroyed..

My thoughts exactly, as soon as I realized that the crazy man in "charge" of Turkey right now wants to be the new "Ottoman" emperor.

And, I know from my contacts that after the German archeologist whose painstaking (and difficult to refute) work died mysteriously while swimming on vacation back home in Germany (public pool I gather) that not much actual excavation has gone forward.

There has been some work to provide a cover and keep the site from falling down, but no real serious efforts to excavate more of it (that I am aware of at this time).

The Buddhas were bad enough, but most people probably were not aware that during their brief time in power the Islamic wing-nut party (because that is what it is) was in power in Egypt, they were seriously looking at ways to blow up or destroy the pyramids!

Idol worshipers you know and the Sphynx portrays a human face...

Some Christians sects have done similar things in the past (or why we have no early Church Icons in the East) but at this time, they are not usually a threat to modern archeology.