LEGAL Farm type, legal type, cow on road... help Texas

T

TexasQF

Senior Member
OK.

We had 2 steer and a cow... in late Feb... 2AM... sheriff in our drive.

Our cows got out... neighbor hit one.

Her truck was fairly mangled. No injuries... refuused treatment & transport.

OK actually neighbors dd. Mid 20's. We got the police report last month.

Vehicle in one name in a different town.

Insurance in another name... on report lapsed, but they attached current insur.

Driver... from yet another different town... with an invalid license... was cited.

We are only listed in accident report as owners of damaged property.

OK so my basic reading... this should be... no fault. ButI am not finding the LAW on it...

I did find this...

http://www.yourcattle.com/members/articles/Cow issues/livestock_liability.html

Our cows NEVER got out before.

The area they are in is fenced with 6ft chain link... topped with barb wire... deer fencing. Gates clipped... they pushed through on this night. :(

Neighbor is angry. Says we are responsible... $4500 damage to truck.

We do not have homeowners insur... we own our house outright... and frankly... can't afford it. Self-employed... large family... etc.

Can anyone help point me to the law regarding this??

Constable just stopped by... tw older ds... coming back to talk to dh this evening... "paperwork to go over regarding cow incident"

I am majorly stressing.

This is so not dh's strong suit... and I am usually responsible for research.

Help please.
 
T

TexasQF

Senior Member
http://www.yourcattle.com/members/articles/Cow issues/livestock_liability.html

Livestock and Liability Laws -- What You Need to Know

by Jill J. Dunkel

When cattle get out on the highway, it can be deadly - both for the livestock and the drivers on the road. But many law enforcement officers will tell you it happens fairly often, whether due to a bad storm that scares cattle through a fence, poor fences, or simply an open gate.
If it happens to you, what are your rights? Are you liable to fix the drivers' vehicles? Are the drivers responsible for paying for the cattle?

State livestock laws determine ownership liability. In the early days of our democracy, unregulated open range was common. Cattle were given the right-of-way. However, most states now regulate the liability of livestock owners in the event that their animals wander onto a public road and collide with a motor vehicle. (Most states consider livestock to mean cattle, horses, mules, donkeys, sheep and goats.)

These regulations can be found in the Livestock Laws of each state. Some states, like Texas, still have Open Range Laws. However, landowners are required to place fences along US and state highways. Texas landowners are not required to fence county and farm-to-market roadways, unless a county passes a provision requiring it.

For most states, the determination of liability centers around what is considered a "legal fence," according to the American Association of Horsemanship Safety (AAHS). "If a fence complies with the legal requirements, that protects the livestock owner from liability for damage done by a stray cow or horse," states the AAHS Web site (http://www.law.utexas. edu/dawson/).


In Texas, a legal fence must be at least four feet high. A board fence must consist of three boards not less than five inches wide and one inch thick, and a rail fence must consist of four rails. A barbed wire fence must consist of three wires on posts no more than 30 feet apart, with one or more stays between every two posts, and a picket fence must consist of pickets that are not more than six inches apart.

Kirk Crutcher is an attorney in Amarillo, Texas, who handles livestock law cases.

He says if a Texas livestock owner "exercises due care in fencing his cattle in," he can not be held liable if the horse gets out. "A reasonably prudent owner is typically not liable," Crutcher says.

Basically the livestock owner must be found negligent in order to be held liable. If the fence is in poor repair, the livestock has a history of getting out, or if the owner has been provided notice of a defect in the fence, he might be considered negligent. "'Was the act foreseeable and could you have prevented it?' is an important question in determining liability," says Crutcher, who is a partner at the law firm of Sprouse, Smith and Rowley, PC.

If the livestock owner is not liable, is the driver?

No. Although the livestock owner may not be liable, the liability is not transferred to the individual who hits the animal on the highway. Texas Livestock Laws state that a person whose vehicle strikes, kills, injures or damages an unattended animal running at large is not liable unless there is gross negligence in the operation of the vehicle, or there is a willful intent to strike, kill, injure or damage the animal.


Basically, it's a no-fault situation.

Although the law in most states is on the side of the livestock owner, it's a good idea to check into any existing insurance policies that you have in the event your liability is questioned. Farm liability policies may cover this type of claim.

Some policies pay for damage done to the livestock if the animals do not belong to the land or stable owner. This can protect the land owner if your pasture is leased out.

Preventing the problem all together is ideal. The best way to protect yourself from the situation is to inspect your fences, gates and locks regularly. "Make sure your livestock can't unlatch the gate," Crutcher suggests. "As any livestock owner will tell you, cattle always seem to find a way of getting out."

The AAHS Web site http:// www.law.utexas.edu/dawson/fence/fnc_menu.htm has links to the livestock laws in all 50 states. ©
 
D

Debob

Senior Member
You own your own home but do not have insurance? We have had animals get out around here, and the person who owns them are responsible for damages that the cause. Own the animal than you are responsible for them.
 
M

moldy

Veteran Member
Sounds like to me, from the article above, you're in the clear. Texas is open range, you have an appropriate fence up, and your cattle don't have a history of getting out/there is not report of fences in disrepair.

Hope it all goes well.
 
West

West

Senior
Take pictures of your fences, the gate they got out of and any proof that for years your stock has been well contained and marketable. Could go to court. IMO, it will depend on the judge. Hopefully you get one that has livestock of his/her own.

Just wondering though was it a bull, steer, of heifer? Doesn't make a bit of difference, but right now on main we have a dead bear, a dead bull too would be PC. :D
 
NoName

NoName

Veteran Member
moldy said:
Sounds like to me, from the article above, you're in the clear. Texas is open range, you have an appropriate fence up, and your cattle don't have a history of getting out/there is not report of fences in disrepair.

Hope it all goes well.
Click to expand...

That's my take, also sounds like vehicle owner just realized that they were gonna be buying a new truck. Kid did the same to DW last year, everything was fine at the accident site, but the next day you'd have thought that DW got out and was kicking nasty ol lady while bashing her worthless car with a sledgehammer.
 
T

TexasQF

Senior Member
all 3 got out when they went... 2 steer and 1 dry cow... youngest steer was hit.

we get so many deer and wild pigs on this hwy... you do have to be careful.

clear stretch of road... report said cow was standing in lane... not that it ran out like the deer do...

Other neighbors cows have been out before... we stopped to let him know....

9 years here and first contact with this neighbor... not exactly friendly... :(
 
Broken Arrow

Broken Arrow

Heathen Pagan Witch
Depends on range law. Is Texas open range? If so its not your fault. We had two of ours hit. Totaled a Lincoln navigator. Never heard a word from the driver. We could have sued for the loss of the cow/calf pair but didn't. Contact the Texas livestock board/commission or your local brand inspector. They will know the law and open range boundaries.
 
T

TexasQF

Senior Member
Texas is open range...

waiting for constable to come back... to see what is up.

stressing with the unknown...
 
B

bluetick

Inactive
Young woman in her 20's driving without a valid license at 2:00AM. Uninsured truck belongs to a friend. Did the investigation include a breathalizer? How fast was she going?

I am not a lawyer or LEO - just a person who gets really ticked off at drivers without licenses and people driving uninsured vehicles. If I were the judge, you wouldn't have to pay a nickel.
 
Broken Arrow

Broken Arrow

Heathen Pagan Witch
If they decide to sue counter sue for the cost of the cow (dead?) Unlicensed driver shows no "clean hands " on their part. Should not get to court.
 
cleobc

cleobc

Veteran Member
The driver's insurance should cover the damage or the vehicle owner's insurance. The most important thing is not to let yourself became very distressed over something that may very well be a non-issue. Laws will vary from state to state, but I believe Texas is pretty favorable to livestock owners. Doesn't sound like the daughter would have much of a case. Cow standing in the road? Should have been able to avoid it. After midnight? Possibly driving impaired? Don't let any blustering or threats worry you too much. I don't think they would get anywhere in court.
 
T

TexasQF

Senior Member
no breathelizer or testing done per report... does not give estimated speed.

Insur papers are for our neighbors address...
truck owned by person in town 1hr from here...
girls address Ft Sam Houston... (not close... I am near Nacogdoches)...

cited for no license as I said...
2AM... in pajamas...

report list truck damage as *moderate*...

girl brought over police report... but mom came over later regarding what are we doing about truck... her insur she said... says we are liable.

on the night of accident we were no cited.

Sheriff and tow truck driver helped haul carcass home for us...
 
Broken Arrow

Broken Arrow

Heathen Pagan Witch
Course their insurance will say your liable. They don't want to pay out! Don't admit to anything and make sure you ask her how shes paying for your cow. Call the livestock board and brand inspector so your clear on the law.
 
Gercarson

Gercarson

Veteran Member
Broken Arrow said:
If they decide to sue counter sue for the cost of the cow (dead?) Unlicensed driver shows no "clean hands " on their part. Should not get to court.
Click to expand...

You ARE NOT liable for this damage from all that I have read. Now, the cow was "standing there" and did not "run out in front of the car" - that screams negligence on the part of the driver. The driver of the vehicle is supposed to have that much control of the vehicle that there should NOT be any "surprises" - this should not have been that much of a surprise. Please, please do NOT be intimidated by anyone concerning damages. This is a "no fault" YOU are in the clear and yes, if you are sued, you MUST counter sue according to the info presented. Sorry about your beef - was any of it salvageable?
 
timbo

timbo

Deceased
If you have a printer, print out that post that stated the law of Texas.
As a police officer (retired) I would say you had made an earnest effort to comply with those laws of Texas.

I'd call their bluff. With all the crap they are living with I can't see that they have any legal claim against you.
Go ahead and worry (because you are a thoughtful person) but in the end.........tell them to stuff it.
 
hope4mil

hope4mil

Veteran Member
Most insurance companies will not pay a claim, when the owner of the vehicle allowed a non-licensed person to drive their vechicle. That is probably what this is all about. Owner of car found out their insurance would not pay, so the owner is trying to get the damages from you. In KY they would have to sue you for the damages, and looks like you have the law on your side, from what you posted. If you have a law that requires you to maintain farm insurance, that could be what the sheriff would be returning for. However, in Ky, I never cited a homeowner for not having insurance. Good luck.
Hope
 
P

PrairieMoon

Veteran Member
Sounds like Texas has similar open range laws like South Dakota. My husband hit a cow a few years back (middle of the night, black cow in a dip in the road...happens). We weren't upset, just happy he wasn't hurt. Old car was totaled. Officer said that if the owner had a history of loose cattle, there might be a case, but this is an agricultural state. Cows just get out sometimes. Every time we choose to get behind the wheel and drive, we assume risk.

Don't let them intimidate you. If they approach you again, tell them your lawyer will be in touch if that is the route they prefer. You are not liable in my opinion.
 
Laurane

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
Our province of Alberta owns all the wild deer, but nobody ever gets to sue the .gov when their deer run out and smack into a vehicle........ my daughter's 3 sports cars v 3deer......deer won every time. She now drives a 4 x 4 truck.
 
T

TexasQF

Senior Member
constable was very nice... lives on the next road over...

just serving the papers.

He noted with drought.. lots of cattle getting out.

We are being sued.

They do not have a lawyer... we certainly can't afford one. Plaintiff is owner of truck... mother?? no clue... last names are different. So owner of truck and the insured... but NOT the driver... is our neighbor... but all paperwork on vehicle & insur... is the town an hour away.

Court is Monday morning in our little town.

I still do not believe we are legally liable.

Printed out from link what I posted here.
Will be making notes.
Have police report.
Will take pictures.

Dh is going to talk to two of our customers for advice... direction. One owns cattle... not like our 2 little steers. Another is retired law enforcement.

Prayers appreciated.

Next week is gonna be.... something. Court on Monday... then my u/s to check baby on Friday. Just a little... sssstttrrreeeesssss
 
duchess47

duchess47

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Praying for you all the way around. Personally, I don't believe you are liable. Nevada is open range and if you hit an animal here it's your problem, not the owner of the animal. Even in NC when I lived there, if you showed that you made reasonable effort to contain the animal you were not at fault.
 
T

TimeTraveler

Veteran Member
"We do not have homeowners insur... we own our house outright... and frankly... can't afford it. Self-employed... large family... etc."

This may be a serious mistake. When you have assets like property, without insurance, you're assets are at risk from the first dollar of damages claimed to the whole total of the claim. Best of luck.
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Don't stress about it (easier said than done, but I think you're in the clear). Not good for you or the baby!!

Is there ANY chance you can find a lawyer?- almost any local person with a license should work for something like this. Personally, I think it would be wise to dig up the money for a bit of representation, but I also know how difficult that can be sometime.

IF your local JP knows the law (or can interpret the statute you posted correctly), he should toss the case immediately. They have NO basis to sue, and- as others have said- they're just playing the "gibsmedat lotto", hoping that you are insured and that your insurance company would figure that paying for a new vehicle for them is cheaper than taking the case to court.

I do have to say that this type problem is the MAIN reason we have a large umbrella insurance policy on our farm. People are jerks these days, and they WILL sue you even when they don't have a leg to stand on! It's horrible, and wrong... but it is what it is. IF- God forbid- something similar would happen here, I want to be able to get a lawyer involved on our side, and the insurance company would pay for that.

Because animals WILL get out. Heck, yesterday I heard my mini horse whinnying, and looked out to see her and Jazz- my big Appaloosa pony mare- galloping and having a great time. Except Ginger- the mini- was inside the paddock fence. Jazz... was not. As I watched, she galloped across the garden, up the driveway and onto the road. Fortunately, she stopped when I called her name, and after a bit of playing with me, let me haze her into the barn.

We live in a VERY rural area- there are more horses and buggies on our road that cars. But, it's a long, straight stretch (great visibility) and that means that some idiots speed like crazy down that stretch. (not as much right now, as the potholes are so bad... I almost hope the town doesn't redo the road this year- for sure, it does slow the morons down!) If Jazz had run onto the road at the precise wrong time, it could have been disastrous.

(oh, and after looking EVERYwhere to figure out how in the world she had gotten out- the paddock has 6 strands of hot, high tensile fence- we discovered she had jumped off a 5 foot wall!! They've been out there all winter, and never went near that one spot. Sigh... now we have to build another fence there!)

I do suspect that (sans bribery on their parts) if you show the JP the facts of the case, it won't go any farther. The "no license", "lapsed insurance" and "non-owner driving the car"- not to mention apparently no sign of skid marks?- should be compelling...

Summerthyme
 
ainitfunny

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
PrairieMoon said:
Sounds like Texas has similar open range laws like South Dakota. My husband hit a cow a few years back (middle of the night, black cow in a dip in the road...happens). We weren't upset, just happy he wasn't hurt. Old car was totaled. Officer said that if the owner had a history of loose cattle, there might be a case, but this is an agricultural state. Cows just get out sometimes. Every time we choose to get behind the wheel and drive, we assume risk.

Don't let them intimidate you. If they approach you again, tell them your lawyer will be in touch if that is the route they prefer. You are not liable in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Your post jogged my memory.
I had all but forgotten about that exact same episode that happened to DH and I FIFTY years ago IN TEXAS.
Middle of the night, big black angus steer standing still across the two lane road just as we came over a short rise that hid him from sight. I do not know how my DH avoided hitting that steer. He was going about 45 and had no warning at all It was another of the "miracle we are still alive" moments. The image of that black steer suddenly in the headlights is etched into my memory while what happened just after we didn't hit it is completely forgotten.
 
Doc1

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If you're going to court, a few hundred bucks to a lawyer - even if you have to pay in installments - will be the wisest investment you can make now.

Best regards
Doc
 
DryCreek

DryCreek

Veteran Member
TexasQF said:
We are being sued.

They do not have a lawyer...
Click to expand...

Note your stress and mention it to your doctor when you visit for your ultrasound. Sounds like a valid countersuit in response to a frivolous suit brought against you. Call "The Hammer". He'll take them to the mat!

I am in the same position as you - I live on a State Hwy. (144) and we have cattle. Over the last 12 years we have had one bull and one steer jump fences and wander off towards town. Longhorns can be pretty athletic animals. We also own our home and property outright as you do - but we would never consider being without insurance. Not only is our home, barns, agricultural implements, cattle trailers, etc. covered, but we also carry a 1/2 million dollar umbrella liability policy due to the fact that our riding steers can be thought of as an "Attractive Nuisance". People in town have seen us ride them and may feel too comfortable jumping the fence to "play" with them when we aren't watching.....
 
Countrymouse

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
LAWYER.

QUICK.

DO NOT TALK TO NEIGHBOR AGAIN---unless it's legal for you to tape the conversation in TX and you tape it. (In GA, if "ONE" party to the conversation knows it's being taped, it's ok to tape---meaning I have worn a hidden mike and micro-tape-recorder, as well as taped phone conversations before in these situations, because HERE that is perfectly legal---but it varies from state to state.)

DO NOT SAY ANYTHING THAT CAN BE CONSTRUED AS ADMITTING FAULT. (You haven't, have you? For what you know, NEIGHBOR may have been taping YOU).

YOUR CHURCH GOT ANY LAWYERS WHO CAN HELP YOU OUT?

What it sounds like to me here is you have some 'got-nothings' who think YOU 'have-something' and they WANT it.

I'm judging that based on the weirdnesses of the girl who hit the bull-- no license, in PJ's after midnight driving, no proof of insurance in car, confusion about ownership of vehicle, etc.

Something is screwey here, but it sounds to me like they are getting ready to try to clean your clock.

It was Abraham Lincoln who said, "A lawyer who represents himself, has a fool for a client."

Your best insurance against stress and worry is DEALING With this---and what you NEED is a LAWYER.

GET ONE.

NOW.

(and for God's sake, get your property insured! A fire, a tornado---could wipe you out!)
 
N

Norma

Veteran Member
You have had a lot of good advice here. Prayers for you TexasQF that it all works out in your favor.

Take care and God Bless!

Norma
 
DustMusher

DustMusher

Deceased
In Texas, Open/Free Range laws are county by county - you need to see if you are and free range county or in some instances, even precincts, free rage laws are in effect EXCEPT on highways (defined in Vernon's as a US or State highway but does not include numbered roads as in Ranch Market, Farm Market, or county roads.) Highways are NOT free range no matter the county they are in. Right of way to Right of way is the Hwy.

The one thing you have going for you is the law states that the owner of the livestock KNOWINGLY allows the livestock to roam at large in this case on a highway, That is your major defense - if you don't have a history of loose livestock and you maintain your fences and gates.

You need to find out if you are in a free range county or precinct.

Is the road they were on a Highway as defined (state or US road). This is a game killer for them if you are on a FM or RM or CR (county road).

Most of the case law in Texas has favored the livestock owner unless there is a history of loose stock.

Counter sue for the cost of the steer (if it was still a bull calf - you WERE going to use it as breeding stock - more value than butcher weight).

Talk to the Constable and if possible the Sheriff - not necessarily formally but over a cup of coffee. Find out from them how they think you should handle this. They know the Judge you will be going in front of.

Good luck. Yeah why was she driving without a license - she knowingly did that. If she had not been driving and following the law, she would not have been in that car on that road at that time.

DM
 
Achilles

Achilles

Infidel
To me, it sounds typical. The truck owner's insurance company told them to go get bent for letting an unlicensed driver operate the vehicle. The suit on you is a result of that.

As far as no breathalyzer, the intoxilyzers are typically held at the jail. If there was no need to investigate for a DWI, there won't be a breathalyzer. Estimated speed is calculated by officers trained in accident reconstruction, and typically only for traffic fatalities.

Now, what was the driver cited for, aside from no DL? Typically, in Texas he who gets the citation in an accident is considered at fault.

Personally, I find more fault with the vehicle owner for allowing an unlicensed operator to drive the truck.
 
L

LibertyMom

Senior Member
This won't help in your situation, but as an interesting note on how other countries view livestock/property...

In Iceland, if you hit a sheep in the road it's your fault and you must pay the owner for the price of the sheep and all the wool it would have produced in its lifetime.

Back on topic...I'd say it's definitely worth the price of an attorney to figure out where you stand.
 
C

CVORNurse

Contributing Member
Hope you are able to take everyone's advice and get a lawyer.

We have "cow insurance" that will cover if the cows get out and someone hits them. It is a little over 100/yr and worth it just for situations like you are in. When this is over, you might check into that. It was originally a rider on our house insurance, but we have since moved house insurance to a cheaper company and Farm Bureau still lets us keep the cow policy as well as a tractor policy.
 
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