PREP FUNG QUESTION: How many of you have top of the line( or adequate)communication equipment included in your preps?

doctor_fungcool

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
The reason I asked is ...I am looking for a top of the line handi talkie for ham ram radio. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
doctor_fungcool

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
bw said:
The radio you have is a minor factoid. The important part is knowing your fellow hams and preppers in your area. A radio with no one to talk to is worthless.
Click to expand...

bw said:
The radio you have is a minor factoid. Thesnt the question.
Click to expand...


bw said:
important part is knowing your fellow hams and preppers in your area. A radio with no one to talk to is worthless.
Click to expand...
That was not the question..


.school yourself on repeaters.
 
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LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Ok, I assume you already have the license. The question I would ask is what capabilities are you looking for it to be able to do? Just analog, or some digital voice modes (DMR, P25...)? Do you want dual band (2M and 70cm, or would you want more capabilities than just those 2)? There are more questions, but to just look into those choices, here is what I use:
For analog, I like the Kenwood TH-F6A. For DMR, I like the Anytone AT-D878UVII Plus.
The TH-F6A is an older model, so you will be looking at places like eBay for that one, BUT it does 3 bands (2m, 1.25m(220MHz) and 70cm) VERY well. It is a physically small, but rather robust radio, and it has a receive range from .1MHz to 1,300MHz (1.3GHz), including SSB, so shortwave is not a problem.


The Anytone AT-D878UVII Plus is a commercial radio that handles both Analog and DMR (digital voice) modes very well, and while plastic, is a rather tough radio. I have had mine for about 4 years now and have had no problems with any of them.

There are others, but just remember that there are a FEW digital voice modes out there so you need to do some homework to make sure that the other people that you want to talk to can also use those modes. I do have radios that work the P25, as well as NXDN and D-Star, as well as one Yaesu Fusion radio (don't use much, and gave the other one away).

I can give you a list of others that I would suggest if you want...
 
doctor_fungcool

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
LoupGarou said:
Ok, I assume you already have the license. The question I would ask is what capabilities are you looking for it to be able to do? Just analog, or some digital voice modes (DMR, P25...)? Do you want dual band (2M and 70cm, or would you want more capabilities than just those 2)? There are more questions, but to just look into those choices, here is what I use:
For analog, I like the Kenwood TH-F6A. For DMR, I like the Anytone AT-D878UVII Plus.
The TH-F6A is an older model, so you will be looking at places like eBay for that one, BUT it does 3 bands (2m, 1.25m(220MHz) and 70cm) VERY well. It is a physically small, but rather robust radio, and it has a receive range from .1MHz to 1,300MHz (1.3GHz), including SSB, so shortwave is not a problem.


The Anytone AT-D878UVII Plus is a commercial radio that handles both Analog and DMR (digital voice) modes very well, and while plastic, is a rather tough radio. I have had mine for about 4 years now and have had no problems with any of them.

There are others, but just remember that there are a FEW digital voice modes out there so you need to do some homework to make sure that the other people that you want to talk to can also use those modes. I do have radios that work the P25, as well as NXDN and D-Star, as well as one Yaesu Fusion radio (don't use much, and gave the other one away).

I can give you a list of others that I would suggest if you want...
Click to expand...
Tnx Lou...I will study your reply.
 
tech

tech

Veteran Member
Do you need a "top-of-the-line" ht? Your title was "(or adequate)" ... what do you hope to accomplish? A radio with P25, DMR, DSTAR, or any other digi mode is a waste of money if noone else uses that mode.

For day to day I just use a Yaesu VX-170...if going to an area where loss of the ht is likely (flood, hurricane recovery, etc.), a cheap Baofeng uv-5r.


doctor_fungcool said:
That was not the question..


.school yourself on repeaters.
Click to expand...
if you think a repeater is going to magically make up people to talk with, perhaps you need to school yourself on repeaters. Don't be so damned snarky.
 
doctor_fungcool

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
alchemike said:
I've got some damn good motorola radios...mine are vhf/uhf though and I don't know much about ham-ham.
Click to expand...

tech said:
Do you need a "top-of-the-line" ht? Your title was "(or adequate)" ... what do you hope to accomplish? A radio with P25, DMR, DSTAR, or any other digi mode is a waste of money if noone else uses that mode.

For day to day I just use a Yaesu VX-170...if going to an area where loss of the ht is likely (flood, hurricane recovery, etc.), a cheap Baofeng uv-5r.



if you think a repeater is going to magically make up people to talk with, perhaps you need to school yourself on repeaters. Don't be so damned snarky.
Click to expand...
LOL..
.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
bw said:
Lots of hams use it. It's a cinch to program with Chirp, and we have our freq plan for downloading so everyone's all apples and apples.
Click to expand...
And while I have many different models of radios form a lot of manufacturers, I do have a "bunch" of the Baofengs because LOTS of groups have them, so any "fingerprints" will look a lot like many others. Plus, you have all sorts of hacks that you can use with them (and with Kenwood handhelds since they share the Mic/Spkr connection setup)...

Digital data transfers are NOT a problem with them, from a phone, tablet or laptop:

Amazon.com: BTECH APRS-K1 Cable (Audio Interface Cable) for BaoFeng, BTECH BF-F8HP, UV-82HP, UV-5X3 (APRSpro, APRSDroid, Compatible - Android, iOS): Electronics

Amazon.com: BTECH APRS-K1 Cable (Audio Interface Cable) for BaoFeng, BTECH BF-F8HP, UV-82HP, UV-5X3 (APRSpro, APRSDroid, Compatible - Android, iOS): Electronics
www.amazon.com

And if you have two extra Baofengs, and a box like this, you can make your own (almost disposable) repeater system that will work a week or so off of a charged car battery...:
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
doctor_fungcool said:
Voice scrambling feature can be had on certain talkies.
Click to expand...
Just remember three things about voice scrambling/encryption (even the "good" stuff):
1. All of the various methods of voice scrambling have been not only broken, but some broken easily.
2. Use of voice scrambling/encryption does not prevent you from being DF (Direction Finding/Found).
3. Use of it on the Amateur bands is against the Amateur rules, and even on the bands and licenses that allow it (like business), it tends to "highlight" your signals out as "more interesting" by many, and they may decide to DF your signal more than non scrambled ones.

Use with caution.

I suggest instead of using Voice encryption, use digital data modes and keep the transmissions short and sweet. I can use the cable above, connect it to my laptop or tablet and send a page of text in a second or two depending on the digital mode and frequency that I use. If I have a SOI (Signals Operating Instruction) plan setup with all of the people I "talk" with, then we are all changing frequencies and times of contact, so the chance that you may catch one of our "data bursts" and be ready to decode (not decrypt) it is minimal which is one of the ways to enhance LPI (Low Probability of Intercept) threat level.

And keep in mind that digital modes are allowed on some of the other radio types like MURS and to a certain point, FRS/GMRS... I have even been hearing PSK31 from Europe on the CB channels and the frequencies just above our CB channels.
 
energy_wave

energy_wave

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I still have a few totes full of CB radios I acquired from several auctions. I'm thinking of looking around again. It's been years since I bought any. Five years ago I could have bought a pick up load of ham radio equipment but had to leave the auction just as it was starting to sell off. All could be used to listen in, even if a person can't legally broadcast.
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
Ill have to look for the vid i saved but apparently mil comms are now available to the public, burst transmission, images and text, mesh abilty and all encrypted.
The vid was uploaded last week i believe, the ceo of the company seems to think we are all going to need them in the future.
 
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F

fi103r

Veteran Member
Have short wave receivers for monitoring purposes and will use cb as primary local coms
ratio two eyes two ears and one mouth
look and listen a lot more than talk
 
O

Old Gray Mare

TB Fanatic
It can be important to have the right tool for the right job; also a clear understanding of that job and what's needed to accomplish it.
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I don't know if it's top of the line or not, I have my dad's ham radio system which was top of the line when he bought it back in the late 90's. Over his life time he had several generations of CBs and ham radio systems. And I have the copper wire to make the antenna thingy. That said, it's a brick if there's no power.
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
Ok, home from work and found the vid

Its the Beartooth
Beartooth

Advanced Comms For The CIVILIAN

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdqF9ZxWjmE​

​

Runtime 34:24
A rundown on a military com system now selling to the public, you asked for high end/top of the line, well its 2498 a unit
Chapters: Intro 00:00 Beartooth Overview 01:06 Being Traced 03:15 Comparing Radios 05:30 EW Protection 07:20 How To Talk 10:45 ATAK Integration 11:40 From Military to Civs 12:45 Range Capabilities 14:00 Available Kits 16:15 PTT Integration 16:50 Critical Features 18:06 Starlink 21:35 Interception Security 23:40 Scalability 24:10 You Don't Need a License 26:10 Network Scan 29:00
 
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J

Jeep

Veteran Member
tech said:
For day to day I just use a Yaesu VX-170...if going to an area where loss of the ht is likely (flood, hurricane recovery, etc.), a cheap Baofeng uv-5r.
Click to expand...
The VX-170 is a good radio, Baofeng makes an 8W and 10W, and check out the Yaesu VX-6. Any of these maybe what you are looking for, but you will also need to buy an aftermarket antenna to replace the rubber duck antenna that comes with the radio. Plus go to Eham.net and click on REVIEWS and see what other Hams are saying about any equipment that you may want to purchase.
 
crossbowboy

crossbowboy

Certifiable
Voice scrambling sounds expensive.

"All on channel, Bubba needs pizza."

Well that could mean just about anything these days, couldn't it? Lol.

Remember to forget your phone when you go for a walk in the woods with your frens...
 
T

Thinwater

Firearms Manufacturer
I have been looking for a good handheld myself so I will follow this thread. The below is one reason why I want a good handheld. I will be following this thread since I have no firsthand knowledge on a "Good handheld". I use two Yeasu mobiles and a Kenwood mobile as my base station, they work great for that.

I have been doing some testing this week with several Baefeng radios (UV-5 and UV-9) talking back to my house from 11 miles away per GPS. This is in FL, fairly flat land with lots of tall trees between both spots. My Kenwood mobile with a good base station antenna (The bottom of it is only up 15 feet) at my house cannot hear them using their rubber duckie antennas. The base antenna is being fed with 100' of LMR400 so I can raise it up a lot without incurring additional losses but don't at this time due to lightning risks. Talking back with the base on 50 watts, the handhelds cannot hear anything with rubber duckies. Summary of the first test: with the factory antennas on the Baefengs, nothing worked in either direction.

I made a 1/4 wave ground plane and hooked it to the hand helds with a 6" long jumper. The base station could clearly hear the hand helds very well. Even with the base at 50 watts and the handhelds on the ground plane antenna, they could not hear anything. I turned the squelch off on the Baefengs and still could not hear the base through the static. Summary of this test: The handhelds could be heard by many others, much farther away than they could hear, putting users at huge disadvantage since many would know you are there and you would not have a clue others were out there.

I moved the handheld radios into my car and hooked them to the 1/4 wave mag mount antenna. Both Baefengs could clearly transmit to the base station. Once again, neither could hear the base station on the mag mount. Same summary as using the ground plane.

I left the car and antenna exactly as is then hooked the antenna to my Yeasu mobile in the car. I had clear communications both ways with just 5 watts and probably could have done it with 3 watts. With good radios on each end and one good base antenna, they can hear a low watt signal clearly from a long way away. Using more power than needed will go a long, long way if anyone else has a good antenna so be careful about what you say and it is better to listen than to talk.
 
Meemur

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Doc, in my area of Iowa, the CB is king, and you might find you have a small neighborhood net of seniors that chat with each other. CBs are inexpensive, no license required. While they don't have a huge range, my neighbors use them to communicate with their home (or field hands) when they are farming in cell dead zone areas (still a thing in Iowa).

During the last 911 outage, some of the volunteer firefighters were monitoring the CB in case there was a field fire.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
A couple more notes...

Keep in mind that most "commercial" radios (motorolas, Yeasu Vertex, Icom...) can be used on the non-commercial (and non-govt/non-military) frequencies, they often have features that could be used against you in times of "not good". This is also true for MOST chinese radios, including the Baofengs. A good example of this is "Stun/Kill/Revive", which allows another radio (or radio system) to transmit a set of codes out (some are digital bursts, some are just DTMF digits), and your radio either loses the ability to transmit, or to both transmit and audibly receive, or stops working altogether. And the only way to revive it from a "Stun" is to have the "Revive" codes sent. The "Kill" command usually can not be undone without actually putting the radio back on the bench and reprogramming it with the right programming tool, OR in some manufacturer's version of the "Kill" command, sending it back to the manufacturer (Motorola is famous for this). In "Good" times this allows the leader in a group of radios or a radio system to "stun" or "Kill" a radio that has fallen into the wrong hands. In "Bad" times, it would allow an enemy to disable large amounts of their opponents radios in a few minutes of "walking" the codes once the receiving frequencies are found for the desired target radios. The Ukrainian "military" has already found this out the hard way with the Baofengs they were using earlier as the Russian military found that they could walk the DTMF codes down the list in short order and nail 95% of the Ukrainian radios in a matter of a few minutes. Killing the ANI-ID features of the radio (at least changing the ANI-ID code and not allowing it to be transmitted over the air either will keep the Baofeng safer, or at least slow the process down for the opposing team. Otherwise they found out that if they hear a slew of DTMF tones being transmitted, changing the channel or turning the Baofeng off usually prevented the "Kill" from happening on their radios.

On the topic of range and receive, especially with the chinese radios... The chinese radios have minimal filtering on both receive and transmit. This can be a blessing and a curse... Often they can receive signals that others find too faint since those signals are often lost in the better radio's filtering networks. BUT, if the chinese radio is in a noisy RF environment, they can often seem "deaf" compared to the better radios due to their receivers being overloaded by the "not on frequency" RF signals swamping out the ones that you want to hear. Out in the country where I live, my Baofengs have no problem picking up weak signals, but if I add in something as simple as a Inkjet printer or other wideband noise source (or certain other RF devices that are not wideband, but their signal gets picked up by the Baofeng as a spur), then the radio gets nearly "deaf" on the signal that I want receive. Likewise, on transmit, there are spurs (Harmonics) that are fairly noticeable up and down the band from where I was trying to communicate on. All of these spurs will lead someone that detects them back to the main frequency, so just keep in mind that in a "not so good" time, anyone with a good scanner or a Spectrum Analyzer (Tiny SA Ultra...) will not only be able to find one of those spurs, but with a quick calculator, find your signal even if not looking on that frequency. Just something to keep in mind...

On the topic of distances, even if your radio's receiver is sensitive and selective, on VHF and above frequencies you are also having to fight the curvature of the Earth. On "flat land" you can calculate the "Radio Horizon" (how far your signal will go before it gets blocked by the horizon) by taking the square root of your antenna's height above "ground" and that will be close to your signal's radio horizon. For handhelds that have the antenna about 6 feet off the ground, you are looking at around 2.45 miles. Now, if you are talking to another person that also is using a handheld with built in antenna, then that person also has about 2.45 miles radius to play with. As long as your radio horizon is touching or overlapping their radio horizon, you "should" be able to talk if there are no other obstructions (2.45+2.45 miles = almost 5 miles). Hills and mountains help, valleys and ravines hurt that distance. Likewise, having a 25 to 50 foot coax jumper and an antenna that you can temporarily put up in a tree (j-pole or slim jim antenna) REALLY will help the range issue. At 25 feet up, you are not looking at a radio horizon of around 5 miles, and 7 miles of radio horizon if you can get the antenna up 50 feet. This is why repeaters that have their antennas up hundreds of feet on a tower, have a radio horizon of 30-50 miles or more. And having additional wattage is not going to help you much at all if the ground (or other objects) are blocking your signal...

Another issue is if you are using UHF or VHF. UHF works great around buildings as the signal bounces off hard surfaces. VHF works better outside, especially if you are having to cut through vegetation to get to the other person. If you are using GMRS/FRS frequencies (462-467MHz UHF) and the signal is not making it, try MURS on VHF (152-154MHz VHF). Antenna types also can "fix" a lot of signal issues. 1/4 wave antennas have a lot of "loft" left in their distribution of signal, you might try either a Yagi (very directional so you can "point and shoot" where you want the signal to go), or a 5/8ths wave so that the "doughnut" is compressed more towards to the ground so the signal goes farther. Speaking of antennas, the antennas that your handheld came with (especially the chinese radios) is usually a poor performing one. A lot of times you can help your signal levels on both receive and transmit by using a better made antenna. For the Baofengs, I would suggest something like one of the Nagoya antennas. I use the Comet SMA-24 for my Kenwood TH-F6As and they make a SMA-24J version for radios like the Baofengs that have the SMA-Male connector on the radio. They work well, and are very flexible so they don't but the stress on the radio's connector as bad as a stiffer long antenna.

Another thing I would look at if you use the UV-5R series of Baofeng radios is to make sure that your Squelch levels are actually setup right. This is especially true for the older (earlier) UV-5R series. Having the Squelch set on them at 9, acts like it was set on 1 or 2 on a normal radio. Newer radios can have this trend reversed, leaving the radio "hard of hearing" at anything above a squelch level of 3. This can be fixed, but it does take some playing with software and settings. A good place to start on this is looking at: https ://www.miklor.com/COM/UV_Squelch.php

The biggest thing that you can do to improve your radio comms capability is to get out and practice with them often and in various places so that you know where you can (and can't) get a signal to go through, AND what antennas and heights will improve that capability. Knowing it now beats guessing on it later.
 
W

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Listening is more my style. Don't want to "chat". Have a couple of radios that pull in SW, ham and CB, and a couple of Baofengs around that I haven't messed with in a while. An assortment of antennas to monkey with if needed.

What I really should do is blow $500.00 for one of these, but it ain't happened yet, and may not ever. To me, "local" is way more important than 'global".

71MsGwk7tFL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 
doctor_fungcool

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
LoupGarou said:
A couple more notes...

Keep in mind that most "commercial" radios (motorolas, Yeasu Vertex, Icom...) can be used on the non-commercial (and non-govt/non-military) frequencies, they often have features that could be used against you in times of "not good". This is also true for MOST chinese radios, including the Baofengs. A good example of this is "Stun/Kill/Revive", which allows another radio (or radio system) to transmit a set of codes out (some are digital bursts, some are just DTMF digits), and your radio either loses the ability to transmit, or to both transmit and audibly receive, or stops working altogether. And the only way to revive it from a "Stun" is to have the "Revive" codes sent. The "Kill" command usually can not be undone without actually putting the radio back on the bench and reprogramming it with the right programming tool, OR in some manufacturer's version of the "Kill" command, sending it back to the manufacturer (Motorola is famous for this). In "Good" times this allows the leader in a group of radios or a radio system to "stun" or "Kill" a radio that has fallen into the wrong hands. In "Bad" times, it would allow an enemy to disable large amounts of their opponents radios in a few minutes of "walking" the codes once the receiving frequencies are found for the desired target radios. The Ukrainian "military" has already found this out the hard way with the Baofengs they were using earlier as the Russian military found that they could walk the DTMF codes down the list in short order and nail 95% of the Ukrainian radios in a matter of a few minutes. Killing the ANI-ID features of the radio (at least changing the ANI-ID code and not allowing it to be transmitted over the air either will keep the Baofeng safer, or at least slow the process down for the opposing team. Otherwise they found out that if they hear a slew of DTMF tones being transmitted, changing the channel or turning the Baofeng off usually prevented the "Kill" from happening on their radios.

On the topic of range and receive, especially with the chinese radios... The chinese radios have minimal filtering on both receive and transmit. This can be a blessing and a curse... Often they can receive signals that others find too faint since those signals are often lost in the better radio's filtering networks. BUT, if the chinese radio is in a noisy RF environment, they can often seem "deaf" compared to the better radios due to their receivers being overloaded by the "not on frequency" RF signals swamping out the ones that you want to hear. Out in the country where I live, my Baofengs have no problem picking up weak signals, but if I add in something as simple as a Inkjet printer or other wideband noise source (or certain other RF devices that are not wideband, but their signal gets picked up by the Baofeng as a spur), then the radio gets nearly "deaf" on the signal that I want receive. Likewise, on transmit, there are spurs (Harmonics) that are fairly noticeable up and down the band from where I was trying to communicate on. All of these spurs will lead someone that detects them back to the main frequency, so just keep in mind that in a "not so good" time, anyone with a good scanner or a Spectrum Analyzer (Tiny SA Ultra...) will not only be able to find one of those spurs, but with a quick calculator, find your signal even if not looking on that frequency. Just something to keep in mind...

On the topic of distances, even if your radio's receiver is sensitive and selective, on VHF and above frequencies you are also having to fight the curvature of the Earth. On "flat land" you can calculate the "Radio Horizon" (how far your signal will go before it gets blocked by the horizon) by taking the square root of your antenna's height above "ground" and that will be close to your signal's radio horizon. For handhelds that have the antenna about 6 feet off the ground, you are looking at around 2.45 miles. Now, if you are talking to another person that also is using a handheld with built in antenna, then that person also has about 2.45 miles radius to play with. As long as your radio horizon is touching or overlapping their radio horizon, you "should" be able to talk if there are no other obstructions (2.45+2.45 miles = almost 5 miles). Hills and mountains help, valleys and ravines hurt that distance. Likewise, having a 25 to 50 foot coax jumper and an antenna that you can temporarily put up in a tree (j-pole or slim jim antenna) REALLY will help the range issue. At 25 feet up, you are not looking at a radio horizon of around 5 miles, and 7 miles of radio horizon if you can get the antenna up 50 feet. This is why repeaters that have their antennas up hundreds of feet on a tower, have a radio horizon of 30-50 miles or more. And having additional wattage is not going to help you much at all if the ground (or other objects) are blocking your signal...

Another issue is if you are using UHF or VHF. UHF works great around buildings as the signal bounces off hard surfaces. VHF works better outside, especially if you are having to cut through vegetation to get to the other person. If you are using GMRS/FRS frequencies (462-467MHz UHF) and the signal is not making it, try MURS on VHF (152-154MHz VHF). Antenna types also can "fix" a lot of signal issues. 1/4 wave antennas have a lot of "loft" left in their distribution of signal, you might try either a Yagi (very directional so you can "point and shoot" where you want the signal to go), or a 5/8ths wave so that the "doughnut" is compressed more towards to the ground so the signal goes farther. Speaking of antennas, the antennas that your handheld came with (especially the chinese radios) is usually a poor performing one. A lot of times you can help your signal levels on both receive and transmit by using a better made antenna. For the Baofengs, I would suggest something like one of the Nagoya antennas. I use the Comet SMA-24 for my Kenwood TH-F6As and they make a SMA-24J version for radios like the Baofengs that have the SMA-Male connector on the radio. They work well, and are very flexible so they don't but the stress on the radio's connector as bad as a stiffer long antenna.

Another thing I would look at if you use the UV-5R series of Baofeng radios is to make sure that your Squelch levels are actually setup right. This is especially true for the older (earlier) UV-5R series. Having the Squelch set on them at 9, acts like it was set on 1 or 2 on a normal radio. Newer radios can have this trend reversed, leaving the radio "hard of hearing" at anything above a squelch level of 3. This can be fixed, but it does take some playing with software and settings. A good place to start on this is looking at: https ://www.miklor.com/COM/UV_Squelch.php

The biggest thing that you can do to improve your radio comms capability is to get out and practice with them often and in various places so that you know where you can (and can't) get a signal to go through, AND what antennas and heights will improve that capability. Knowing it now beats guessing on it later.
Click to expand...
Wonderful post..

tnx
 
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