POL Jeremy Corbyn tables no-confidence motion in PM (Labor Party tries to topple May-UK)

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I am posting this as a new thread because it is a breaking story - this is DIFFERENT from May's own party trying to ditch her as party leader this is a Labor attempt to bring down the government! - The vote may be as early as tomorrow night!

LIVE: Jeremy Corbyn tables no-confidence motion in PM
Latest updates as the PM addresses the House of Commons after failing to win concessions on her Brexit deal in Brussels last week.
18:10, UK,
Monday 17 December 2018
skynews-theresa-may-brexit-commons_4522158.jpg

Theresa May
Image:
Theresa May failed to win concessions on her Brexit deal



Key points:

PM says Brexit deal vote will be in week beginning 14 January

She condemns calls for a second referendum

Jeremy Corbyn accuses PM of leading UK into a 'national crisis'

Labour leader tables no-confidence motion in PM

Downing Street doesn't rule out series of votes on Brexit options

"Fair enough, we're now going for it"



John McDonnell MP

@johnmcdonnellMP
Just completed a news round confirming Labour’s victory in forcing the Prime Minister to set a date for the meaningful vote on her proposed deal. Jeremy has taken the sense of the House of Commons which is clearly demanding a vote this week. Fair enough, we’re now going for it.


Labour try to force no-confidence vote tomorrow

A Labour spokesperson says: "It's clearly a confidence motion. The government must find time to debate this tomorrow.

"If they refuse to do so it is because she does not retain the confidence of the House of Commons and they know she would lose."


18:25

Labour MP claims no-confidence vote to take place tomorrow


Mary Creagh

@MaryCreaghMP
No confidence vote will take place Tuesday evening.

But government source says "not necessarily"...


Kate McCann

@KateEMcCann
Government source says "not necessarily" when asked if the confidence vote will take place tomorrow night. They are locked in a meeting room looking at how it might work right now....


https://news.sky.com/story/live-theresa-may-to-condemn-calls-for-second-eu-referendum-11584184
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
A Labour Government under Corbyn would be a disaster for the UK of biblical proportions. Even worse than the Blairite Administration which was an abomination from which the UK is only just recovering.

The whole Brexit issue is a direct result of Labour's massive pro-immigration policy over the past few years c/w with the fact that the EU also controls immigration policy not national Governments, Labour have done nothing at all to assist with the Brexit program. They are even talking about a second referendum, sounds familiar?

Corbyn is a out and out Communist who takes the mass murderer Lenin as his role model even to the extent that he dresses up like him.
 
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Richard

TB Fanatic
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12...rom-britain-but-because-of-corbyn-not-brexit/

Money is already draining from Britain but because of Corbyn, not Brexit
Markets are spooked at the prospect of Corbyn as PM
Ross Clark



Ross Clark
1 December 2018
9:00 AM

What’s wrong with UK financial markets? The global economy is recovering, but British stocks and shares are not keeping pace. The pound has failed to recover from the slide it experienced in the wake of the EU referendum. This is frequently blamed on investors being spooked by Brexit, even more so by the possibility of a no deal. But has anyone actually asked the markets what is spooking them? Look closer and it becomes clear that while Brexit is a problem for some investors, most are much more worried about a far bigger risk, even if they rarely speak about it in public. It is the possibility of a Corbyn government.

Since last year’s election, when the Labour leader came within a stone’s throw of No. 10, it has been impossible to write off the idea of a Corbyn victory. And we’re about to enter a time when anything can happen. Theresa May looks doomed to lose the Commons vote on her Brexit deal on 11 December; the DUP has said it may well withdraw its support from the Tories, leaving the Prime Minister without a majority. Whatever the Commons result, turmoil is more or less guaranteed — and one possible outcome is a general election as early as January.

A no-deal Brexit would unquestionably cause short-term ructions in the UK economy, as well as affect the pound and the FTSE — for what economic forecasts are worth (which is not very much, to judge by recent history). Oxford Economics recently claimed that GDP would be 2 per cent smaller than expected, pushing the UK into a mild recession. But even if that were to happen (and it has to be remembered just how far Treasury forecasts were out when they claimed the economy would shrink by 3.6 and 6 per cent in the event of a Brexit vote), growth would then rekindle, trade would continue, companies would re-route imports and exports, and an inflationary spike would die down. But if Corbyn were to be elected on a ‘radical socialist’ platform, investors can only guess as to what might happen.

Last month, wealth manager Saunderson House conducted a survey of high-net-worth clients asking them about the biggest fear for their wealth. The most common concern was a change of government, with 42 per cent reporting themselves worried. Brexit hardly featured. Among 50- to 64-year-olds, for example, only 25 per cent were worried about ‘global instability’ —which included the risk of a no deal. Among 36- to 49-year-olds, global instability hardly featured at all: they were worried firstly about losing their jobs, with a change in government running a close second.

‘There is a clear understanding of the upsides and downsides of Brexit,’ says Gareth Parsons, who conducted the survey. ‘But a Corbyn government is a much greater unknown, and so is a much bigger fear than Brexit. We have clients who are laying down a footing for a potential move abroad. They are setting up bank accounts in overseas locations, where they already have second homes. Many are keeping a defensive ballast to their portfolios, with very liquid short-dated corporate bonds.’

It is a theme which has been confirmed by others. Michael Maslinski, who runs his own wealth management outfit, recently reported that Corbyn is worrying his clients more than Brexit by a factor of ten. ‘Concerns about Corbyn have doubled over the past couple of weeks,’ says Iain Tait, of wealth managers London & Capital. ‘It is now, without a doubt, the first thing that clients ask us: “What can we do to protect our wealth against Corbyn?” ’ Clients, he says, are taking money out of pension schemes, and moving it abroad. ‘There is no tax advantage to that while they remain resident in Britain, but it does protect them against a possible run on the pound.’

The figures bear this out. A recent study by an investment research firm suggested that $20 billion has been taken out of UK shares over the past two years. Wealthy individuals are also protecting themselves against a possible future wealth tax by passing money down to their children at an earlier age. In that sense, Corbyn — who has made a thing about inter-generational unfairness — has already achieved his ambition of enriching one group of young people: the teenage children of the super-rich.


Some wealthy individuals are not waiting for an election. Two of Tait’s clients have already upped and gone, one to Switzerland, one to Sweden. ‘Early in my career it would have been unthinkable for anyone to move to Sweden for tax reasons,’ he says. What Sweden does offer, on the other hand, is the political and fiscal stability that was once Britain’s strongest selling point.

Trevor Abrahmsohn, whose estate agency Glentree Estates has been selling property in and around Highgate in north London since the 1970s, has seen several families sell up in recent months — all people, he says, who had seemed deeply committed to Britain. ‘I know an Argentinian family who had bought a home in Maida Vale, as well as office space, to set up a restaurant and property businesses,’ he says. ‘They have sold everything and moved back to Argentina. There was an American family who had been in Kensington for 20 years who have done the same, plus a couple of American families in Maida Vale.’

Corbyn wasn’t the only factor in their decision to leave, he says. They were also motivated by changes to the tax rules, which require non-doms to pay a flat-rate fee of £60,000 per individual to secure that tax status — a fee not recognised by US tax authorities when enacting rules on dual taxation. ‘But it was the threat of Corbyn which pushed them over the edge,’ he adds. ‘I’ve been in business for 43 years and I’ve never seen such tangible fear. There is an old adage in property that hardened investors never sell. But they are selling now. People are getting rid of whole portfolios and putting their money into very portable forms of wealth such as diamonds, valuable coins and jewellery.’



There was little in Labour’s 2017 election manifesto which would appear at first to justify such a reaction. The document proposed an income tax rate of 45 per cent on the 5 per cent of taxpayers who earn more than £80,000 and a 50 per cent tax rate on incomes over £123,000. That is nothing compared with the 83 per cent rate on earned income and 98 per cent rate on unearned income which were imposed by the Callaghan government in the late 1970s. Yet re-assuring as the manifesto sounded, it sits ill with Corbyn’s rhetoric. At a fringe event at Labour’s conference this year, he said: ‘The very richest in our society have had tax breaks, giveaways, and tax havens. I tell you what, they’re on borrowed time.’

It is the threat of a wealth tax that is scaring wealthy individuals. It is a theme to which shadow chancellor John McDonnell has returned several times. In 2012 he gave his endorsement to a proposal by University of Glasgow academic Greg Philo (sometimes mistakenly called an ‘economist’ but actually a professor in sociology) to subject wealthy individuals to a one-off wealth tax of 20 per cent in the hope of using it to pay off the government’s debts.

‘The wealthiest 10 per cent own £4,000 billion,’ said McDonnell. ‘If you took 20 per cent of that you would then have £800 billion and we could tackle our deficit — we could tackle our debt — four-fifths of our debt would then be wiped out. So we’re saying just collect the money and make those who created the crisis pay for the crisis and that way you overcome it.’

The idea that wealthy individuals are as a group responsible for the 2008/09 crisis is absurd — what role, he might like to explain, did the Rolling Stones play in the crash? — as is the suggestion that such a tax would pay off the government’s debts: how McDonnell would manage to capture his £800 billion when, of course, highly mobile wealthy individuals have the option of fleeing the country. There is little appetite around the world for international socialist revolution, the only thing which could stop capital flight in its tracks.

On the contrary, many governments are going in the opposite direction and making every effort to attract wealthy residents. Donald Trump’s tax cuts have set out a big welcome mat for the world’s rich (if not so much for those of liberal opinion). Israel has introduced a ten-year tax holiday on the global wealth of new residents — they will pay tax only on money they bring into the country. Emmanuel Macron has reversed François Hollande’s war on the rich and offered special inducements to attract wealthy residents. Monaco recently held a presentation in London in an effort to attract wealthy individuals. Argentina and Greece, countries from which the wealthy were fleeing in recent times, are now much more settled.

Corbyn and McDonnell are unlikely to lose much sleep over a few ultra-high-net-worth individuals packing up and leaving (they might well even consider it a success), and where non-doms are involved there is not a huge loss in tax revenues if they leave. The idea of investment fleeing the country ought to worry them more. Paradoxically, some in the City believe a Corbyn government would initially boost economic growth via an increase in infrastructure investment.

The trouble is that a bounce would come at a huge cost. Many of Corbyn’s spending pledges in his 2017 manifesto were based on the assumption that if you double the rate of corporation tax you will double the revenue. That is demonstrably false — George Osborne proved it in reverse by cutting corporation tax and increasing tax receipts as a result. If corporation tax were to be jacked up there would be a very rapid fall in revenues as corporations sought to shift profits to lower-tax countries — something which McDonnell would struggle to assuage, in the absence of international socialist revolution. There could be an exodus of corporate HQs, with McDonnell unable to finance public spending increases through any means other than a sharp upward lift in borrowing, with negative consequences for markets.

‘If Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour took power, it would probably look a lot like a hard Brexit,’ says Will McIntosh-Whyte, who manages funds for Rathbones. ‘Domestic stocks would get hit hard and sterling would fall. Mr Corbyn fundamentally disagrees with many economic and legal conventions that have been sacrosanct for a generation or more. The uncertainty he brings is highly likely to unsettle businesses and investors, leading to capital flight and a rise in gilt yields.’

We would be back, in other words, in traditional Labour territory, with small–duration economic boom snuffed out via inflation and budgetary crisis. For the moment, all eyes are on Westminster — on Brexit, the mechanics of Commons majorities and the meaning of obscure passages in EU withdrawal documents. But behind the scenes serious preparations are going on for what could turn out to be a far bigger drama: Corbyn and McDonnell in power.

My comment, Labour's policies would lead to a sharp rise in interest rates and wholesale mortgage defaults. He is also taking about introducing property taxes which would be the kibosh on home ownership.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I used to think the Corbyn was just too much of a "beardie weirdie" to lead the party for very long but I was wrong, and now it looks like he may have a good shot at becoming Prime Minister.

I am not saying that is a good thing (I don't live in the UK but the border means the UK affects us), but I am surprised the party didn't replace his quite some time ago.

I don't think a serious tax hike will bring in the money he expects, I think instead a lot of people will just leave.
 

1911user

Veteran Member
(snip)...

I don't think a serious tax hike will bring in the money he expects, I think instead a lot of people will just leave.

Where does one typically go to leave the UK and its' influence/taxes? (serious question, perhaps a new thread to not disrupt this one?)
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Corbyn is a typical example of the extremist old Labour left wing and I can understand why people from Ireland would support him. There are only two parties in the UK, if one fails the other is voted into power regardless of its policies. The UK should move towards a more democratic system with referendums like Switzerland and an elected upper house like the USA.
The UK voter has no control over the membership of political parties and the election of MPs and leaders. Corbyn is an obnoxious and evil person typical of the Labour Party, there has been no successful Labour Government since WWII, the constant economic depression that the UK suffers is entirely due to Labour, this is not to say that at least half of the Tory Governments have also failed not being able to reverse of of the policies of the previous Labour Government.
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
Where does one typically go to leave the UK and its' influence/taxes? (serious question, perhaps a new thread to not disrupt this one?)

Many come here to Ireland, shared language, shared history, 1 in 4 people in the Britain are of Irish ancestry , many have vacationed in Ireland, similar weather, we have UK newspapers , UK businesses, shops & products, drive on the same side of the road etc etc
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
Corbyn is a throwback to 70's marxist Labour , the only reason he became leader was all the anarchists , marxists & whackjobs Labour allowed fo join the party before the leadership race
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
In the 1970's a lot of really wealthy Brits went to places like Switzerland or Monaco which are happy to exchange passports for big money "donations" (or investment etc) it isn't automatic, the Swiss do tend to vote on newcomers but money also talks.

At one point, a good number of the "old" families that had "stately piles" (big old historical houses) just signed them over to "the State" in instead of paying the extremely high inheritance taxes and then moved away.

A few years on (when we lived in Cambridge in the mid-1990s) the government had discovered just how expensive those places are to keep and maintain especially if no one is living in them, and there are only so many visitors to any one of them willing to pay an entrance fee.

They ended up quietly selling some off to "private owners" (often as hotels or apartments - I have friends that lived in such an apartment for a time) and the others were (and still are) money sinkholes maintained by English Heritage and other programs.

They are great for renting for SCA events and the like but I can't help thinking the British government would have saved a lot of money in the long run if they hadn't taxed the owners so highly (like 98 percent) that they just up and left.
 
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