INTL Protests Erupt in Tehran

jward

passin' thru
Babak Taghvaee (@BabakTaghvaee) Tweeted:
#BREAKING: It is taking place now in #AmirKabir University of #Tehran, thousands of students are protesting against #Iran's Islamic Regime & #IRGC over shot-down of Flight #PS752 of #Ukraine International Airlines by a Tor-M1 SAM system of #IRGCASF. Babak Taghvaee on Twitter View: https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1216004739932073984?s=20



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Mike (@Doranimated) Tweeted:
It's worth adding that it takes real courage to go out and protest after the regime, in November, murdered as many as 1,500 protestors -- courage and rage. Masih Alinejad ️ on Twitter View: https://twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1216005070392889344?s=20
 

mzkitty

I give up.
[B]Heshmat Alavi[/B]‏ @[B]HeshmatAlavi[/B] 5m5 minutes ago

#BREAKING Jan 11 - Tehran, #Iran Students of Amir Kabir University are chanting during a large rally: "IRGC shame on you! Let go of the country!" This rally follows today's acknowledgement by the IRGC of downing a Ukrainian airliner. #IranProtests

[B]Heshmat Alavi[/B]‏ @[B]HeshmatAlavi[/B] 3m3 minutes ago

Jan 11 - Tehran, #Iran Students of Amir Kabir University chanting at a large rally: "People haven't died for us to praise the leader!" This is strong criticism directed at the regime & the mullahs' dictator @Khamenei_ir. #IranProtests

Videos here:

 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
The fact that the Iranian .gov knew who was on that plane which was shot down, (and that there were no Americans on it), makes us suspect that fact was a message to USA that Iran could shoot down any plane anywhere...... and because they didn't kill Americans, there would be no repercussions.
 

Farmgal

Senior Member
The fact that the Iranian .gov knew who was on that plane which was shot down, (and that there were no Americans on it), makes us suspect that fact was a message to USA that Iran could shoot down any plane anywhere...... and because they didn't kill Americans, there would be no repercussions.

We said the very same thing at the breakfast table this morning.
 

jward

passin' thru
Normally I roll my eyes at piped in, paid protesters...but these folks are literally risking everything. Mad props, prayers, and respect.

Secondly, yeah, Night...how are those Mullahs still holding on?! It defies logic, and I cannot believe what I see!
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Hammi-salami's replacement will be under a lot of scrutiny.

Will he go full slaughter on the protesters?
 

jward

passin' thru
SM Radio سمیرا
@SMohyeddin


Riot police at Amir Kabir university formerly known as Tehran Polytechnic. Crowd is unmoved and is addressing them directly with chants of: “Shameless” This word is much more stinging and damning in Persian than it is in English
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
The fact that the Iranian .gov knew who was on that plane which was shot down, (and that there were no Americans on it), makes us suspect that fact was a message to USA that Iran could shoot down any plane anywhere...... and because they didn't kill Americans, there would be no repercussions.
Assuming they did know who was on the plane, (I'm skeptical) your reasoning is a little thin for the justification. jmho
More likely would be a high value target on the plane they felt was worth the risk of this push-back.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Probably the majority of the younger people of Iran (and that is the majority of people of Iran) hate the fanatical rule of the Mullahs and the Republican Guards.

This is why I've been hoping for at least the last ten years or so that war with the West might be avoided and change comes from within preferably peacefully but if not in a new revolution as younger people (anyone under 40) got fed up living with silly rules and worse seeing their children or their compatriots tortured or even executed for things like going on a date or showing too much hair.

It has taken longer because while horrible to live under, the regime wasn't quite as cruel and backward as Saudi but then the mullahs were taking an already Westernized society and trying to throw it back into the 10th century (think Handmaid's Tale) at least in the cities; whereas in Saudi they never left the 10th century to start out with.

This is probably going to get very ugly and I suspect a lot more people are going to die, but given the situation, such a revolution might just work, not likely but it has a chance.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Assuming they did know who was on the plane, (I'm skeptical) your reasoning is a little thin for the justification. jmho
More likely would be a high value target on the plane they felt was worth the risk of this push-back.
the best support for this line of reasoning would be that other aircraft were allowed to pass and this one was singled out.
Something along the lines of "Flt 1101 - pass, Flt 1102 - pass, Flt 752 - got it - launch missiles, Flt 1103 pass, Flt 1104 pass."

And then you hear news reports along the lines of "A Ukraine Airliner was shot down today. A terrible tragedy but you can take comfort in knowing that 14 other airliners were able to safely leave Tehran that night."

You know that if I have thought of this, some enterprising young journalist has thought of it and has already compiled a list of aircraft that departed Tehran airport before and after. It is available online somewhere.
This is how you justify your scenario - please, make your case.

Tehrans best defense would be
"We closed our airspace.
The Tower did not grant the pilot permission to take off.
Air Traffic Control repeatedly order the Aircraft to return to the Tehran Airport.
But the pilot ignored all of our warnings"
"Olley, Olley, Oxen Free"
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
the best support for this line of reasoning would be that other aircraft were allowed to pass and this one was singled out.
Something along the lines of "Flt 1101 - pass, Flt 1102 - pass, Flt 752 - got it - launch missiles, Flt 1103 pass, Flt 1104 pass."

And then you hear news reports along the lines of "A Ukraine Airliner was shot down today. A terrible tragedy but you can take comfort in knowing that 14 other airliners were able to safely leave Tehran that night."

You know that if I have thought of this, some enterprising young journalist has thought of it and has already compiled a list of aircraft that departed Tehran airport before and after. It is available online somewhere.
This is how you justify your scenario - please, make your case.

Tehrans best defense would be
"We closed our airspace.
The Tower did not grant the pilot permission to take off.
Air Traffic Control repeatedly order the Aircraft to return to the Tehran Airport.
But the pilot ignored all of our warnings"
"Olley, Olley, Oxen Free"
No argument from me with your description. An "oops" by some 20 something soldier still makes the easiest explanation. Recently watching the movie "Thirteen Days" and thinking about Latakia in "Alas Babylon" don't make dream time tranquil.
 

jward

passin' thru
Reuters

SAT JAN 11, 2020 / 10:53 AM EST
Iranian protesters demand that Khamenei quit over plane downing: video on Twitter


Photo

FILE PHOTO: Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei speaks during Friday prayers in Tehran September 14, 2007.
REUTERS/MORTEZA NIKOUBAZL
(Reuters) - A group of Iranian protesters demanded Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei step down on Saturday after Tehran said that its military had mistakenly shot down a Ukrainian plane, killing all 176 people on board.
"Commander-in-chief (Khamenei) resign, resign," videos posted on Twitter showed hundreds of people chanting, in front of Tehran's Amir Kabir university. Reuters could not verify the authenticity of the video footage.

(Writing by Parisa Hafezi; Editing by Alexander Smith)
Our standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust

ETA link:. Iranian protesters demand that Khamenei quit over plane downing: video on Twitter
 
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raven

TB Fanatic
I know there are a few other "aircrew" members here - you know you don't simply get to hop in the jet and take off and wander aimlessly about the country - anywhere (unless it is a day cel nav training flight - been there done that).
Flight plans are filed, Tower gives cleared to taxi, cleared to takeoff, hand off to ATC, ATC gives heading and altitude.
There is a lot of ground to aircraft communications.
And this is Iran. I would not think ATC is simply going to say "Aloha Flt 752, thanks for visiting, you are cleared to fly aimlessly around the country". Did ATC give that aircraft a heading and altitude towards that sensitive military site?
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Just a LITTLE NUDGE is all it'd take.
Mullahs are losing their handle.
It might take a little more than a nudge, but this is where Trump should be spending dollars instead of keeping thousands of troops all over the world.
Supporting insurgencies is cheaper than direct military opposition.

Salami's assassination seems to have finally woken up a sleeping world to just how much terrorism Iran is exporting and how much of a danger they are to the western world. Their blatant lying about shooting down the Ukraine airliner is another thing that opened many countries eyes to just how deceitful and conniving the Iranian government is.

You have a country of fairly educated population interested in living a western style life being controlled by rich and powerful islamic clerics and rich generals and ministers and other leaders, whose kids go to private European schools, while the general population continues to be under the boot of a medieval islamic theocracy.
The Persians were once a free and proud nation until they were conquered and their whole country consumed by Islam. Perhaps with some help they might yet break free of the suffocating yoke of evil islam.
 
The fact that the Iranian .gov knew who was on that plane which was shot down, (and that there were no Americans on it), makes us suspect that fact was a message to USA that Iran could shoot down any plane anywhere...... and because they didn't kill Americans, there would be no repercussions.

Assuming they did know who was on the plane, (I'm skeptical) your reasoning is a little thin for the justification. jmho

More likely would be a high value target on the plane they felt was worth the risk of this push-back.

OR, the fire control system on the missile battery was somehow compromised - operator(s) and/or computer/software - embarrasses/sows confusion within the Iranian regime, and in the eyes of the world, and the Iranian people.

Shades of the Stuxnet virus fiasco, circa 2010 . . . see Stuxnet - Wikipedia

It is also possible that a "high-value" (western) target(s) was aboard the plane - though, if true, would represent a hard-core "solution" that would never be admitted. YMMV.

I know there are a few other "aircrew" members here - you know you don't simply get to hop in the jet and take off and wander aimlessly about the country - anywhere (unless it is a day cel nav training flight - been there done that).

Flight plans are filed, Tower gives cleared to taxi, cleared to takeoff, hand off to ATC, ATC gives heading and altitude.

There is a lot of ground to aircraft communications.

And this is Iran. I would not think ATC is simply going to say "Aloha Flt 752, thanks for visiting, you are cleared to fly aimlessly around the country". Did ATC give that aircraft a heading and altitude towards that sensitive military site?

Good question.


intothegoodnight
 
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raven

TB Fanatic
Here ya go.
Aeroflot flt SU 513. Departed Tehran at 4:19, a hour before flight 752 and arrived in Moscow - no problem.
Atlasglobal flt KK 1185. Departed Tehran at 5:17, 2 minutes after flight 752 and arrived in Istanbul - no problem.
There were several flights that departed Tehran. There were several cancelled. Several Delayed.
 

Krayola

Veteran Member
Probably the majority of the younger people of Iran (and that is the majority of people of Iran) hate the fanatical rule of the Mullahs and the Republican Guards.
I heard a statistic, that something like 60% of the people in Iran are under age 30. I have also heard people say over recent years (who have visited Iran and talked to the "man on the street") that the young people over there are mostly pro-western. They actually like America and hate the religious fanatics that run the place. I don't have a link for this, it's just stuff I have heard over the last few years. Don't know how accurate it is.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I heard a statistic, that something like 60% of the people in Iran are under age 30. I have also heard people say over recent years (who have visited Iran and talked to the "man on the street") that the young people over there are mostly pro-western. They actually like America and hate the religious fanatics that run the place. I don't have a link for this, it's just stuff I have heard over the last few years. Don't know how accurate it is.
There were similar reports as early as 20 years ago (after we got to Ireland) which is why I said the "anyone under 40" which is also pretty much everyone (or a majority) born after the revolution.

Even a lot of people my age (young adults in 1979) are tired of the whole thing, many people didn't support it as soon as they realized they were exchanging one dictatorship (the Shah) for another (The Mullahs) and a lot of others simply couldn't get out and leave (though many did, that is one reason there is such a huge Iranian diaspora in the West).
 

jward

passin' thru
Iran Demographics Profile 2019
Home > Factbook > Countries > Iran
Population83,024,745 (July 2018 est.)
Age structure0-14 years: 24.23% (male 10,291,493 /female 9,823,838)
15-24 years: 14.05% (male 5,973,320 /female 5,689,501)
25-54 years: 48.86% (male 20,698,748 /female 19,863,223)
55-64 years: 7.39% (male 3,022,134 /female 3,113,443)
65 years and over: 5.48% (male 2,111,390 /female 2,437,655) (2018 est.)
Dependency ratiostotal dependency ratio: 40.2 (2015 est.)
youth dependency ratio: 33.1 (2015 est.)
elderly dependency ratio: 7.1 (2015 est.)
potential support ratio: 14.2 (2015 est.)
Median agetotal: 30.8 years (2018 est.)
male: 30.5 years
female: 31 years
Population growth rate1.19% (2018 est.)
Birth rate17.4 births/1,000 population (2018 est.)
Death rate5.3 deaths/1,000 population (2018 est.)
Net migration rate-0.2 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2018 est.)
Urbanizationurban population: 75.4% of total population (2019)
rate of urbanization: 1.71% annual rate of change (2015-20 est.)
Major cities - population9.014 million TEHRAN (capital), 3.152 million Mashhad, 2.086 million Esfahan, 1.628 million Shiraz, 1.581 million Karaj, 1.596 million Tabriz (2019)
Sex ratioat birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
0-14 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-24 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
25-54 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
55-64 years: 0.97 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.87 male(s)/female
total population: 1.03 male(s)/female (2018 est.)
Infant mortality ratetotal: 15.5 deaths/1,000 live births (2018 est.)
male: 16.6 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 14.4 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy at birthtotal population: 74.2 years (2018 est.)
male: 72.8 years
female: 75.6 years
Total fertility rate1.96 children born/woman (2018 est.)
Contraceptive prevalence rate77.4% (2010/11)
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate0.1% (2018 est.)
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS61,000 (2018 est.)
HIV/AIDS - deaths2,600 (2018 est.)
Drinking water sourceimproved: urban: 97.7% of population
rural: 92.1% of population
total: 96.2% of population
unimproved: urban: 2.3% of population
rural: 7.9% of population
total: 3.8% of population (2015 est.)
Sanitation facility accessimproved: urban: 92.8% of population (2015 est.)
rural: 82.3% of population (2015 est.)
total: 90% of population (2015 est.)
unimproved: urban: 7.2% of population (2015 est.)
rural: 17.7% of population (2015 est.)
total: 10% of population (2015 est.)
Major infectious diseasesdegree of risk: intermediate (2016)
food or waterborne diseases: bacterial diarrhea (2016)
vectorborne diseases: Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever (2016)
Nationalitynoun: Iranian(s)
adjective: Iranian
Ethnic groupsPersian, Azeri, Kurd, Lur, Baloch, Arab, Turkmen and Turkic tribes
ReligionsMuslim (official) 99.4% (Shia 90-95%, Sunni 5-10%), other (includes Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian) 0.3%, unspecified 0.4% (2011 est.)
LanguagesPersian (official), Azeri Turkic and Turkic dialects, Kurdish, Gilaki and Mazandarani, Luri, Balochi, Arabic
Literacydefinition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 85.5%
male: 90.4%
female: 80.8% (2016 est.)
School life expectancy (primary to tertiary education)total: 15 years
male: 15 years
female: 15 years (2015)
Education expenditures3.8% of GDP (2017)
Maternal mortality rate16 deaths/100,000 live births (2017 est.)
Children under the age of 5 years underweight4.1% (2011)
Health expenditures7.6% (2015)
Physicians density1.14 physicians/1,000 population (2015)
Hospital bed density0.2 beds/1,000 population (2014)
Obesity - adult prevalence rate25.8% (2016)
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
The under 40 age group grew up with the internet and knows what it's like in the rest of the world.

40-50 is probably a split.

50+ are more likely to be fundamentalist, hard liners.
 
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