ILL IMM Question about Syrian Refugees

Meemur

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
I thought Syrian men were supposed to be brutal and tough. Why aren't they banning together and taking back their country?

It seems like if these refugees are tough enough to make it to Germany, aren't they tough enough to defeat the terrorists?

What am I missing?
 
ncmissouri

ncmissouri

Veteran Member
I do believe one of the side effects of Islam is that there are only two sides--the one doing the butchering and the one running away. It might be in their culture.
 
Meemur

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Thanks, folks.

I just saw all of these 20-something male refugees who looked like they were strong enough to take up arms. I wouldn't have made this post if I had seen mostly women, children, and old men.

Yeah, I know this has been going on for awhile.
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Meemur said:
Thanks, folks.

I just saw all of these 20-something male refugees who looked like they were strong enough to take up arms. I wouldn't have made this post if I had seen mostly women, children, and old men.

Yeah, I know this has been going on for awhile.
Click to expand...

There are women and kids in the mix; haven't seen too many old folks though.

I'm thinking the young men are desperate to get to Germany to work. Then they can send for the rest of their families. It's an assumption, true, but that's been done many times over the years.
 
Lilbitsnana

Lilbitsnana

On TB every waking moment
Meemur said:
I thought Syrian men were supposed to be brutal and tough. Why aren't they banning together and taking back their country?

It seems like if these refugees are tough enough to make it to Germany, aren't they tough enough to defeat the terrorists?

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Which ones do they fight first? Also, with what? We and the coalition have been arming and training thousands but some of those switch sides and most of the stuff gets taken as spoils after ISIS, Hezbollah, JAN or Assads military have killed or captured them.

Assad? Iran/Hezbollah who are helping Assad fight the rebels that we put together to oust him? They have been fighting ISIS too. They are also killing the civilians that don't agree with Assad.

The coalition rebels? They can't do anything to the coalition planes and bombs that have killed way more civilians than they have terrorist.

Turkey? Who have also killed lots of civilians and Kurds under the ruse of going after ISIS.

Each other? There is a civil war going on there.

ISIS?

The Russians? They are advising Assads people and now have a number of troops in Syria (not the masses that some have reported, but a few hundred or couple of thousand...just like we have some troops in Syria (we classify them as "advisors/trainers", so do the Turks and the Kurds and Europe is getting close to sending in troops based on recent reports.

Any one of the other terror groups that while fighting Assad and ISIS are are also fighting to form their own little islamic state?


While this pic is captioned as "consice" it is not a complete list of who and what they are running from.

These pics are also some of the milder pics that are out there that shows what they go thru day in/day out; the only thing that really changes is which one is causing the damage and doing the killing today? Sometimes there are three fronts going on at one time in a single city.


Michael Weiss ‏@michaeldweiss 8h8 hours ago

Concise and to the point.

COKJNrAUwAAKX99.jpg



AJE News ‏@AJENews Sep 1

Street battles rage as ISIL inches deeper into Damascus http://aje.io/qlzr

CNzmEfJWEAAz03Q.jpg




r/ ‏@bzdt5 Aug 28

#CombatFootage: 3 barrel bombs dropped simultaneously on Damascus suburb of Darayya | http://ift.tt/1VhxOnZ

CNf2x3sWEAEjMYZ.jpg





Rami ‏@RamiSafadi93 Aug 20

Overview of Daraya in Western Damascus. Massive destruction. #Syria

CM1X9iDWwAAhf2A.jpg:large




lots of pics just in the Damascus area, although there are some areas that are relatively untouched for now or at least have limited damage, but they become fewer every day.

http://twitter.com/search?f=images&vertical=default&q=Damascus%20destruction&src=typd



Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha Aug 28

#SyAAF air raid on Harasta #Damascus

CNfDc1zUEAALji8.jpg:medium




Kobane, Syria or Kabani as it is now called (it is next to the Turkey border)


BBC News (World) ‏@BBCWorld Sep 3

This is Alan & Ghalib Kurdi - and this is Kobane, the Syrian town they fled only to die at sea http://bbc.in/1Nd2PIk

CN_8QK2WEAEL5z0.jpg:medium




Quentin Sommerville ‏@sommervillebbc Sep 3

You don't need to tell the people of Kobane the solution to the crisis in Syria is defeating IS. They did already.

CN_rkz-VEAAUevX.jpg:medium



At one time (several months ago) there were still quite a few building that were still standing in Kobane, but there have been dozens of battles/attacks since I have seen those pics, so I don't know how many buildings are still intact.


The same stuff is happening in most of IRAQ and parts of Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, even parts of Jordan. The same stuff happens in the "refugee camps" too.
 
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Be Well

Be Well

may all be well
Meemur said:
Thanks, folks.

I just saw all of these 20-something male refugees who looked like they were strong enough to take up arms. I wouldn't have made this post if I had seen mostly women, children, and old men.

Yeah, I know this has been going on for awhile.
Click to expand...

You could read the articles I posted on the All Illigration thread, hat tip to Brewer. Mentioning the all Im thread since I bolded the important parts to make it easier to read. The articles by Tancredo, Greenfield, and Spencer. Makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR.

Posts 155, 159, and 161. I don't want to post them again because doing the formatting for easier reading take time, but also they've been posted on 3 threads. or at least two have been. Meemur, if you read those you will totally understand why hundreds of thousands are fleeing, any why so many able bodied men. And this is important -NONE of the wealth Gulf States will take any due to (they say) fears of terrorists among them.
 
D

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
http://warisacrime.org/node/19200

Gen. Wesley Clark Says Pentagon Had Plan in 2001 to Attack Seven Countries in Five Years
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: I knew why, because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September [2001]. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

AMY GOODMAN: I'm sorry. What did you say his name was?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: I'm not going to give you his name.

AMY GOODMAN: So, go through the countries again.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, starting with Iraq, then Syria and Lebanon, then Libya, then Somalia and Sudan, and back to Iran.
 
Be Well

Be Well

may all be well
Another thing to keep in mind, the hell in Syria would not be as bad as it is now, and maybe even would have resolved, if other countries esp the US had not supporter, armed, trained and taken the side of various rebels, who are just as bad or in most cases, much worse than Assad.
 
2Trish

2Trish

Veteran Member
Everyone has something that bother's them more than anything else. Mine is seeing children suffer, in pain, terrified or neglected. Every time I see the pictures of the children over there it breaks my heart. I guess TPTB just consider them collateral damage.
 
D

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
http://www.arabnews.com/saudi-arabia/news/693726

Govt bans Saudis from adopting Syria orphans

[won't copy the picture here]

WHAT’S MY CRIME? A wounded child receives treatment at a makeshift hospital in the rebel-held area of Douma, after he was injured by an airstrike by forces loyal to President Bashar Assad. Rebel-held towns face frequent bombardment and the siege means food is scarce and medical facilities are ill-equipped to handle the war-injured. (AFP)

JEDDAH: IBRAHIM NAFFEE

Published — Friday 23 January 2015

RELATED STORIES

$ 100 m new Saudi aid to bolster Syrian revolution
$2.4 billion in aid pledged for war-ravaged Syria

The Ministry of Social Affairs has banned Saudi families from adopting Syrian or other foreign children.

“The ministry does not sponsor Arab children who lost their parents in conflicts, such as in Syria and Iraq. There are global humanitarian organizations that deal with these cases,” said Latifah Al-Tamimi, director of social supervision at the ministry in the Eastern Province.
However, the ministry does support children of marriages between foreign women and Saudi men, providing them full rights as citizens, she was quoted as saying in a local publication on Thursday.

On a related matter, she said that Saudi families recently adopted 560 Saudi orphans. These orphans are entitled to birth certificates, passports and other personal documents.
The ministry also provides adoptive families SR3,000 a month, with the children getting free medical treatment at private hospitals and bank accounts, she said.

However, orphan children adopted by Saudis must keep their original family names, and must be informed that they were adopted when they grow up. Al-Tamimi said the ministry had not uncovered any abuse of the adoption system yet.

Orphans are entitled to live independently when they are 18. The ministry also supports those who want to get married, providing a financial subsidy of SR60,000 per person.
Abdullah Makki, a former Islamic science professor at Um Al-Qura University, told Arab News that Islam encourages adoption but not changing the family names of orphans. “Islam encourages Muslims to embrace orphans so that they are raised in a family environment,” said Makki.
 
D

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Video at the link -
==================

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=033_1441440911

People smuggling suspects in court over tragic toddler’s drowning

Four Syrians have been remanded in custody by a Turkish court,
after being charged in connection with the drowning of refugees including tragic toddler Aylan Kurdi.

Mothers of the suspects were there to support their sons who were charged with smuggling migrants and causing multiple deaths by “conscious negligence”.

The mother of one of the men, Meliha Recep, insisted her son was not a smuggler but himself a migrant.

“They did nothing, they were just trying to escape. Our children are also victims. They were just on the same boat, that’s all,” Recep, dressed in a grey headscarf, told reporters.

The hearing took place at the Turkish resort of Bodrum, near the spot where three-year-old Aylan’s body was washed up in scenes that shocked the world.

In Syria’s border town of Kobani, Aylan was buried on Friday
with his five-year-old brother Ghalib and their mother.

His father Abdullah, who had hoped for a new, safe life for his family now wants to stay in the war-ravaged town beside their graves.

He wept as his sons and wife were laid to rest, and also called on Arab governments to do more to alleviate the refugee crisis

Abdullah Kurdi survived the perilous crossing from Turkey that killed his family and at least nine other people packed onto two small boats headed to the Greek island of Kos just a few kilometres away.

Harrowing images showing Aylan’s tiny body have put a human face on this crisis – and forced European governments to accept that this is a refugee emergency that cannot be ignored.
 
Melodi

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Yeah, there is no obvious "side" for the average person to "fight;" this isn't a traditional war with the blue guys vs. the red guys; this is warlord central, almost Mad Max type mess where in the course of a week the bombed out shell of the house you used to have (with no water, electricity and what food you had is gone or taken) controlled and taken over three different times, by three different groups.

The second one may have already carted off your oldest daughter as a sex slave and the third threatened to take your five year old son to an "education camp" (or perhaps they already have). You, the wife and the other two remaining children decide if you want to "wait" for the next wave (with no food, maybe two walls standing and the Winter coming on) or try to get what is left of the family out and to some sort of safety (at least food and water).

Once out, then human nature takes over and people make the "best" choices out of a lot of bad ones and they know for example, that an apartment (or even tent) in Germany is probably a better (and safer) place than one in Jordon, Turkey or even Poland so of course they try to get there.

Once there (say Germany, France, Sweden) after a few months or years the memories fade and the relative poverty or instability of their positions takes over and they start to complain etc - that again is sadly human nature and the same things happened during World War II, the Boat People (both Viet Nam and Cuba in the US), it is pretty universal.

But people can't "stay and fight" and they are "not cowards" if they risk their all to save their families; Nightwolf said he would do exactly the same thing if his wife and children were under threat of nearly certain death. You get them out first, then you go back if there is anything to go back to or any obvious army to join.

Right now, there really isn't one; there are those to AVOID like ISIS; but precious little outside of the Kurdish areas of anything I could really describe as "the good guys" and even with the Kurds it is somewhat relative.
 
Buick Electra

Buick Electra

TB2K Girls with Guns
Dozdoats said:
http://warisacrime.org/node/19200

Gen. Wesley Clark Says Pentagon Had Plan in 2001 to Attack Seven Countries in Five Years
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: I knew why, because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September [2001]. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

AMY GOODMAN: I'm sorry. What did you say his name was?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: I'm not going to give you his name.

AMY GOODMAN: So, go through the countries again.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, starting with Iraq, then Syria and Lebanon, then Libya, then Somalia and Sudan, and back to Iran.
Click to expand...

GOOD FIND Doazdoats!
 
H

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Melodi said:
Yeah, there is no obvious "side" for the average person to "fight;" this isn't a traditional war with the blue guys vs. the red guys; this is warlord central, almost Mad Max type mess where in the course of a week the bombed out shell of the house you used to have (with no water, electricity and what food you had is gone or taken) controlled and taken over three different times, by three different groups.

The second one may have already carted off your oldest daughter as a sex slave and the third threatened to take your five year old son to an "education camp" (or perhaps they already have). You, the wife and the other two remaining children decide if you want to "wait" for the next wave (with no food, maybe two walls standing and the Winter coming on) or try to get what is left of the family out and to some sort of safety (at least food and water).

Once out, then human nature takes over and people make the "best" choices out of a lot of bad ones and they know for example, that an apartment (or even tent) in Germany is probably a better (and safer) place than one in Jordon, Turkey or even Poland so of course they try to get there.

Once there (say Germany, France, Sweden) after a few months or years the memories fade and the relative poverty or instability of their positions takes over and they start to complain etc - that again is sadly human nature and the same things happened during World War II, the Boat People (both Viet Nam and Cuba in the US), it is pretty universal.

But people can't "stay and fight" and they are "not cowards" if they risk their all to save their families; Nightwolf said he would do exactly the same thing if his wife and children were under threat of nearly certain death. You get them out first, then you go back if there is anything to go back to or any obvious army to join.

Right now, there really isn't one; there are those to AVOID like ISIS; but precious little outside of the Kurdish areas of anything I could really describe as "the good guys" and even with the Kurds it is somewhat relative.
Click to expand...

Well put Melodi.
 
Melodi

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Housecarl said:
Well put Melodi.
Click to expand...
Thank you Housecarl, I really respect and look forward to your posts on all matters military as your understanding is greater than mine; my observations where what seemed to me to be happening and it is good to have confirmation by someone who understands these things better than I do.
 
M

Medical Maven

Deceased
I would bet a lot of money that smuggling these people onto Europe's shores is one of the big revenue streams for ISIS. ISIS has all kinds of side businesses. It would be foolish to think that they are not deep into this one since it promotes the infiltration and destabilization of their "enemies".

The Hijrah is on full display here. And you can weep for the little children all you want. When they grow up in the slums and ghettos surrounding the major metropolitan cities in euroland they will be slitting your throats, literally. And the ones that aren't slitting your throat will be a dead weight that will collapse your economy even further. And those passive ones will be silently applauding the mayhem created by their more aggressive brothers and sisters.

Stop "feeling" euroland! You are two klicks away from DEAD.
 
shinerbock

shinerbock

Innocent Bystander
ncmissouri said:
I do believe one of the side effects of Islam is that there are only two sides--the one doing the butchering and the one running away. It might be in their culture.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, ncm, there seems to be more than just two factions at odds. The main Islamic ones are Shia & Sunni groups. Then you have the 'extremist jihadi' groups [Al Qaeda, ISI, Hezbollah, et al] and finally the national forces @ odds which include Syria, Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan etc. Behind the client nations listed you then have the powers that control them [Iran, Russia, U.S., France and to a lesser degree the U.K.]. And then there's the institutional UN and their array of various NGOs [non-governmental agencies] which supposedly provide medical help, housing and transport among other services to the poor souls caught in the middle. What a mess!
 
Meemur

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Thanks for all of your replies. No, I hadn't really been following it closely. I understand why countries don't want the refugees. It is a tragic situation with no easy answers.
 
shinerbock

shinerbock

Innocent Bystander
mzkitty said:
There are women and kids in the mix; haven't seen too many old folks though.

I'm thinking the young men are desperate to get to Germany to work. Then they can send for the rest of their families. It's an assumption, true, but that's been done many times over the years.
Click to expand...

You know mzkitty, I remember working with/for an entire family of Turks while living in Atlanta in the early 1990s. My driver had a wife and two or three sons living in Adana Turkey [near Incirlik AFB on the southern border]. He had not seen any immediate family members for a few years. His sons both/all (?) worked in Germany @ menial jobs while his wife remained @ the family domicile in Adana.

Without this work experience I'd never have know that this Euro-ME migration problem existed 25 years ago. Amazing that it's a way of life for some though certainly out of control @ this point in time.

Hope you're feeling much better this week.
 
B

Bolt

FJB
Medical Maven said:
I would bet a lot of money that smuggling these people onto Europe's shores is one of the big revenue streams for ISIS. ISIS has all kinds of side businesses. It would be foolish to think that they are not deep into this one since it promotes the infiltration and destabilization of their "enemies".

The Hijrah is on full display here. And you can weep for the little children all you want. When they grow up in the slums and ghettos surrounding the major metropolitan cities in euroland they will be slitting your throats, literally. And the ones that aren't slitting your throat will be a dead weight that will collapse your economy even further. And those passive ones will be silently applauding the mayhem created by their more aggressive brothers and sisters.

Stop "feeling" euroland! You are two klicks away from DEAD.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering what % of these refugees are Muslim and will expect to be accommodated in their newfound homelands. I have a hunch a lot of this is planned - put women and children at the forefront as 'refugees", get the sympathy vote, gain access, and then infiltrate. We see already how well they have assimilated (not!).
 
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