TECH Sometimes it's good to drive a clunker

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Yes, I long ago decided that if I was going to murder someone, I was taking my bicycle and leaving my phone at home. ;)
Yes, do like the illegals do. Walk to the murder scene. You don't have to worry about an ObamaPhone since the tracking is likely disabled (Lest it give Republicans a leg up on deportation.)

Its been done before in a "defund the police" motivation...


Dobbin
 

Peapicker

Surrender only to Jesus Christ
Having that issue now with the driver side door latch assembly on my 98 Blazer. Can't seem to find one out there new or used,

Have you checked out LMC Truck?

It's where I go for parts for my '84 Surburan. My garage mechanic once told me you could build a vehicle from the ground up from them.
 

1911user

Veteran Member

Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies​

March 11, 2024
in News

Kenn Dahl says he has always been a careful driver. The owner of a software company near Seattle, he drives a leased Chevrolet Bolt. He’s never been responsible for an accident.

So Mr. Dahl, 65, was surprised in 2022 when the cost of his car insurance jumped by 21 percent. Quotes from other insurance companies were also high. One insurance agent told him his LexisNexis report was a factor.

LexisNexis is a New York-based global data broker with a “Risk Solutions” division that caters to the auto insurance industry and has traditionally kept tabs on car accidents and tickets. Upon Mr. Dahl’s request, LexisNexis sent him a 258-page “consumer disclosure report,” which it must provide per the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

What it contained stunned him: more than 130 pages detailing each time he or his wife had driven the Bolt over the previous six months. It included the dates of 640 trips, their start and end times, the distance driven and an accounting of any speeding, hard braking or sharp accelerations. The only thing it didn’t have is where they had driven the car.
On a Thursday morning in June for example, the car had been driven 7.33 miles in 18 minutes; there had been two rapid accelerations and two incidents of hard braking.

According to the report, the trip details had been provided by General Motors — the manufacturer of the Chevy Bolt. LexisNexis analyzed that driving data to create a risk score “for insurers to use as one factor of many to create more personalized insurance coverage,” according to a LexisNexis spokesman, Dean Carney. Eight insurance companies had requested information about Mr. Dahl from LexisNexis over the previous month.

“It felt like a betrayal,” Mr. Dahl said. “They’re taking information that I didn’t realize was going to be shared and screwing with our insurance.”

In recent years, insurance companies have offered incentives to people who install dongles in their cars or download smartphone apps that monitor their driving, including how much they drive, how fast they take corners, how hard they hit the brakes and whether they speed. But “drivers are historically reluctant to participate in these programs,” as Ford Motor put it in a patent application that describes what is happening instead: Car companies are collecting information directly from internet-connected vehicles for use by the insurance industry.

Sometimes this is happening with a driver’s awareness and consent. Car companies have established relationships with insurance companies, so that if drivers want to sign up for what’s called usage-based insurance — where rates are set based on monitoring of their driving habits — it’s easy to collect that data wirelessly from their cars.

But in other instances, something much sneakier has happened. Modern cars are internet-enabled, allowing access to services like navigation, roadside assistance and car apps that drivers can connect to their vehicles to locate them or unlock them remotely. In recent years, automakers, including G.M., Honda, Kia and Hyundai, have started offering optional features in their connected-car apps that rate people’s driving. Some drivers may not realize that, if they turn on these features, the car companies then give information about how they drive to data brokers like LexisNexis.

Automakers and data brokers that have partnered to collect detailed driving data from millions of Americans say they have drivers’ permission to do so. But the existence of these partnerships is nearly invisible to drivers, whose consent is obtained in fine print and murky privacy policies that few read.

Especially troubling is that some drivers with vehicles made by G.M. say they were tracked even when they did not turn on the feature — called OnStar Smart Driver — and that their insurance rates went up as a result.

“GM’s OnStar Smart Driver service is optional to customers,” a G.M. spokeswoman, Malorie Lucich, said. “Customer benefits include learning more about their safe driving behaviors or vehicle performance that, with their consent, may be used to obtain insurance quotes. Customers can also unenroll from Smart Driver at any time.”

Even for those who opt in, the risks are far from clear. I have a G.M. car, a Chevrolet. I went through the enrollment process for Smart Driver; there was no warning or prominent disclosure that any third party would get access to my driving data.

“I am surprised,” said Frank Pasquale, a law professor at Cornell University. “Because it’s not within the reasonable expectation of the average consumer, it should certainly be an industry practice to prominently disclose that is happening.”

Policymakers have expressed concern about the collection of sensitive information from consumers’ cars. California’s privacy regulator is currently investigating automakers’ data collection practices. Last month, Senator Edward Markey of Massachusetts also urged the Federal Trade Commission to investigate.

“The ‘internet of things’ is really intruding into the lives of all Americans,” Senator Markey said in an interview. “If there is now a collusion between automakers and insurance companies using data collected from an unknowing car owner that then raises their insurance rates, that’s, from my perspective, a potential per se violation of Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act.”

That is the federal law that prohibits unfair and deceptive business practices that harm consumers.

‘Smart Driver’​


Mr. Dahl shared his experience on an online forum for Chevy Bolt enthusiasts, on a thread where other people expressed shock to find that LexisNexis had their driving data. Warnings about the tracking are scattered across online discussion boards dedicated to vehicles manufactured by G.M. — including Corvettes, a sports car designed for racking up “acceleration events.” (One driver lamented having data collected during a “track day,” while testing out the Corvette’s limits on a professional racetrack.)

Numerous people on the forums complained about spiking premiums as a result. A Cadillac driver in Palm Beach County, Fla., who asked not to be named because he is considering a lawsuit against G.M., said he was denied auto insurance by seven companies in December. When he asked an agent why, she advised him to pull his LexisNexis report. He discovered six months of his driving activity, including many instances of hard braking and hard accelerating, as well as some speeding.

“I don’t know the definition of hard brake. My passenger’s head isn’t hitting the dash,” he said. “Same with acceleration. I’m not peeling out. I’m not sure how the car defines that. I don’t feel I’m driving aggressively or dangerously.”
When he finally obtained car insurance, through a private broker, it was double what he had previously been paying.
The Cadillac owner, Mr. Dahl and the drivers on the forums had all been enrolled in OnStar Smart Driver. OnStar is G.M.’s Internet-connected service for its cars and Smart Driver is a free, gamified feature within G.M.’s connected car apps (all part of OnStar, but branded MyChevrolet, MyBuick, MyGMC and MyCadillac).

Smart Driver can “help you become a better driver,” according to a corporate website, by tracking and rating seatbelt use and driving habits. In a recent promotional campaign, an Instagram influencer used Smart Driver in a competition with her husband to find out who could collect the most digital badges, such as “brake genius” and “limit hero.”

In response to questions from The New York Times, G.M. confirmed that it shares “select insights” about hard braking, hard accelerating, speeding over 80 miles an hour and drive time of Smart Driver enrollees with LexisNexis and another data broker that works with the insurance industry called Verisk.

Customers turn on Smart Driver, said Ms. Lucich, the G.M. spokeswoman, “at the time of purchase or through their vehicle mobile app.” It is possible that G.M. drivers who insisted they didn’t opt in were unknowingly signed up at the dealership, where salespeople can receive bonuses for successful enrollment of customers in OnStar services, including Smart Driver, according to a company manual.

The Cadillac owner in Florida said he had not heard of Smart Driver and never noticed it in the MyCadillac app. He reviewed the paperwork he signed at the dealership when he bought his Cadillac in the fall of 2021 and found no mention of signing up for it.

“When a customer accepts the user terms and privacy statement (which are separately reviewed in the enrollment flow), they consent to sharing their data with third parties,” Ms. Lucich wrote in an email, pointing to OnStar’s privacy statement.
But that statement’s section on “third-party business relationships” does not mention Smart Driver. It names SiriusXM as a company G.M. might share data with, not LexisNexis Risk Solutions, which G.M. has partnered with since 2019.

Jen Caltrider, a researcher at Mozilla who reviewed the privacy policies for more than 25 car brands last year, said that drivers have little idea about what they are consenting to when it comes to data collection. She said it is “impossible for consumers to try and understand” the legalese-filled policies for car companies, their connected services and their apps. She called cars “a privacy nightmare.”

“The car companies are really good at trying to link these features to safety and say they are all about safety,” Ms. Caltrider said. “They’re about making money.”

Neither the car companies nor the data brokers deny that they are engaged in this practice, though automakers say the main purpose of their driver feedback programs is to help people develop safer driving habits.
After LexisNexis and Verisk get data from consumers’ cars, they sell information about how people are driving to insurance companies. To access it, the insurance companies must get consent from the drivers — say, when they go out shopping for car insurance and sign off on boilerplate language that gives insurance companies the right to pull third-party reports. (Insurance companies commonly ask for access to a consumer’s credit or risk reports, though they are barred from doing so in California, Massachusetts, Michigan and Hawaii.)
An employee familiar with G.M.’s Smart Driver said the company’s annual revenue from the program is in the low millions of dollars.

LexisNexis Risk Solutions, which retains consumers’ driving data for six months, has “strict privacy and security policies designed to ensure that data is not accessed or used impermissibly,” the company said in a statement.
Verisk provides insurers with trip data and a risk score “approved by insurance regulators in 46 states and the District of Columbia,” said a spokeswoman, Amy Ebenstein. Automakers that Verisk gets data from “provide their customers notice and obtain appropriate consents,” she said.
Some drivers who had Smart Driver turned on, though, said they did not even realize they were enrolled until they saw warnings on online forums and then checked their app. They quickly unenrolled themselves by turning off Smart Driver in their car app.

Omri Ben-Shahar, a law professor at the University of Chicago, said he was in favor of usage-based insurance — where insurers monitor mileage and driving habits to determine premiums — because people who are knowingly monitored are better drivers. “People drive differently,” he said. “The impact on safety is enormous.”
But he was troubled, he said, by “stealth enrollment” in programs with “surprising and potentially injurious” data collection. There is no public safety benefit if people don’t know that how they drive will affect how much they pay for insurance.

‘Real-World Driving Behavior’​

General Motors is not the only automaker sharing driving behavior. Kia, Subaru and Mitsubishi also contribute to the LexisNexis “Telematics Exchange,” a “portal for sharing consumer-approved connected car data with insurers.” As of 2022, the exchange, according to a LexisNexis news release, has “real-world driving behavior” collected “from over 10 million vehicles.”

Verisk also claims to have access to data from millions of vehicles and partnerships with major automakers, including Ford, Honda and Hyundai.

Two of these automakers said they were not sharing data or only limited data. Subaru shares odometer data with LexisNexis for Subaru customers who turn on Starlink and authorize that data be shared “when shopping for auto insurance,” said a spokesman, Dominick Infante.

Ford “does not transmit any connected vehicle data to either partner,” said a spokesman, Alan Hall, but partnered with them “to explore ways to support customers” who want to take part in usage-based insurance programs. Ford will share driving behavior from a car directly with an insurance company, he said, when a customer gives explicit consent via an in-vehicle touch screen.

The other automakers all have optional driver-coaching features in their apps — Kia, Mitsubishi and Hyundai have “Driving Score,” while Honda and Acura have “Driver Feedback” — that, when turned on, collect information about people’s mileage, speed, braking and acceleration that is then shared with LexisNexis or Verisk, the companies said in response to questions from The New York Times.

But that would not be evident or obvious to drivers using these features. In fact, before a Honda owner activates Driver Feedback, a screen titled “Respect for your Privacy” assures drivers that “your data will never be shared without your consent.” But it is shared — with Verisk, a fact disclosed in a more than 2,000-word “terms and conditions” screen that a driver needs to click “accept” on. (Kia, by contrast, does highlight its relationship with LexisNexis Risk Solutions on its website, and a spokesman said LexisNexis can’t share driving score data of Kia participants with insurers without additional consent.)

Drivers who have realized what is happening are not happy. The Palm Beach Cadillac owner said he would never buy another car from G.M. He is planning to sell his Cadillac.
  • See the data your car is capable of collecting with this tool: Vehicle Privacy Report.
  • Check your connected car app, if you use one, to see if you are enrolled in one of these programs.
  • Do an online search for “privacy request form” alongside the name of your vehicle’s manufacturer. There should be instructions on how to request information your car company has about you.
  • Request your LexisNexis report: LexisNexis Consumer Disclosure - LexisNexis Risk Solutions Consumer Disclosure
  • Request your Verisk report: FCRA
This article is important so I'm bumping it. It's longer but read anyway especially before signing up for insurance programs to reduce car rates.
 

zealotbat

Senior Member
Once you link your phone to the car Bluetooth.....the car is then tracking you like it is your phone. So...thinking you will leave your phone at home to do your dirty work? Nope......
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Make sure - after the break in - that you always run premium, synthetic oil.

Best
Doc
Yep 2002 Jeep Liberty here for my car, pulling trailers, full of wood, hunting etc... Gets Pennzoil Full synthetic 10W-30 every 3,000 miles religiously.

SB's car is a 2023 Rav 4. Got 39.1 MPG on a trip to Florance, AL last week. Average gas mileage in total. 31.4. Just tripped over 3,000 miles and will be a year old in May.

Believe it or not takes 0W-16 oil. Right now only one company makes it, Chevron. And is supposed to be changed every 10,000 miles. I told the salesman not happening. 5,000 OK but not 10,000.

I'm kind of concerned about the 0W-16 and concerned if I go to a higher weight (after the warranty is over) the oil pump will struggle with it. BUT at the same time have seen articles where cars in NASCAR are using that weight. But I'm sure that engine only goes 500 miles before it is tore down and rebuilt.

But back to OP I think...... all that sharing stuff with the company and Insurance etc. Is for the birds and factually inaccurate.

Part of the trip home is interstate -70 MPH. Shows on the dash the speed limit, usually with a red line around it. When we exit the interstate and get on a state highway, it shows the speed limit as 70 for some 12 miles until we get close to our turn off where the first sign is for the state highway -55. But in the mean time, I am way under 70. All of which says I am a good driver.

I am a good driver. After being in a couple of wrecks that nearly killed me, you tend to be an even better defensive driver. After all cars don't care if they kill you.
 

Safetydude

Senior Member
I
I would love to have an AMC Eagle station wagon, 4wd.
Had a 1980 Eagle Wagon...OK on civilized roads, drank gas like a 354 4-barrel engine. It was however useless off-road as the silly-putty coupling in the transfer case would just shear and the thing would not climb any grade over about 20-25 degrees (not percent) regardless of the type of road. A novel concept and it wasn't bad to drive and rather comfortable but mechanically not reliable for off-road. Now if they had put a real Jeep transfer case in...now we're talking a great car! :) I wish I took out the high-end Motorola AM/FM Cassette radio when I traded it off as that was a super radio and the last of the Moto's made for cars.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Overall, I’m a very safe driver. I usually have my pups with me (the fact that I didn’t on the night of my crash was absolute providence.) The insurance company I use sent me info on an app they use to monitor my driving habits. After thinking about it for a week or so, I signed up. My score is saving me about $275 a year in premium cost, and that ain’t hay. So I have to argue with myself every time I need to go someplace.
 

sy32478

Veteran Member
2003 and 2005 Jeep TJs That inline 6 is bullet proof as long as you keep up with the oil. My 1st TJ had 287K miles on it with no engine issues ever. Most expensive repair was getting the heater core replaced. That was until I totaled it in VT. :(

Check out Rock Auto for mail order parts. They carry parts for brands I've never heard of amd multiple version of many parts to match OEM stuff.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Overall, I’m a very safe driver. I usually have my pups with me (the fact that I didn’t on the night of my crash was absolute providence.) The insurance company I use sent me info on an app they use to monitor my driving habits. After thinking about it for a week or so, I signed up. My score is saving me about $275 a year in premium cost, and that ain’t hay. So I have to argue with myself every time I need to go someplace.
LOL If I saved that much on premium cost, I wouldn't have a premium cost for 6 months out of a year. In fact they would have to pay me some. On the 2002 Jeep, but the 2023 Rav would only be about 100.00 for one 6 month premium.

I laugh at commercials that say if you switch you could save 600.00 cuz like they would be paying me a bundle every year.

But you are right 275 ain't hay. And if you are getting that reduction go for it.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
my ins comp gave some gizmo to install for 1 yr

after a yr, my rates went down.

I drive less than 5000km a yr

very slowly

and no hwy driving
Depends quite a bit on who and how many you share the road with. If you live in Memphis TN and actually drive, it's hard to get a decent rate.

My SIL lives in Douglasville (SW ATL, GA) and is a careful conscientious driver driving a 2-3 YO CRV AWD &, like my wife, addicted to cruise control - so no jack-rabbit starts, high speeds etc. and they both pay stupid premiums based on place of residence.
 

zeker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Had a 1980 Eagle Wagon...OK on civilized roads, drank gas like a 354 4-barrel engine. It was however useless off-road as the silly-putty coupling in the transfer case would just shear and the thing would not climb any grade over about 20-25 degrees (not percent) regardless of the type of road. A novel concept and it wasn't bad to drive and rather comfortable but mechanically not reliable for off-road. Now if they had put a real Jeep transfer case in...now we're talking a great car! :) I wish I took out the high-end Motorola AM/FM Cassette radio when I traded it off as that was a super radio and the last of the Moto's made for cars.
I drove for many yrs without a radio.

always wanted 1.

finally, I got a vehicle with a radio.

never turned it on

I always drove clunkers and you had to 'hear' what was going on.

One time I pict up a hitchiker, and a sound came from under the hood.

sorta like sumtin let loose and you could hear it hit the pavement

hiker said "aint you gonna stop and see what it was?"

I told him "we're still moving, aint we?"

when I got home it was the battery holder had rotted off.

no biggie.

just a bungy cord fix.
 

Southside

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Bought our Rav4 2 years ago. Have put 37K on it, and the trip ODO has 30K on it, averaging 32.2 over that time. The vehicle will do over 40mpg if you can keep it at 65-70, They are great little cars. We change our oil every 5-6K, no more.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
My Murano is 4wd. It is capable of about 30 mpg on the highway and 22 in the city, but that’s for the fwd version. The AWD cuts about 3 mpg off that number. After living in wisconsin all those years, I have been conditioned to only have 4WD cars. Those who live up there understand my position.
 

Southside

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My Murano is 4wd. It is capable of about 30 mpg on the highway and 22 in the city, but that’s for the fwd version. The AWD cuts about 3 mpg off that number. After living in wisconsin all those years, I have been conditioned to only have 4WD cars. Those who live up there understand my position.
I will say Wisconsin is MUCH snowier than Chicago.
In Chicago, I would say I NEED 4WD about 2-3x/year. For a 3mpg penalty, and a 3k price increase. I passed.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Depends quite a bit on who and how many you share the road with. If you live in Memphis TN and actually drive, it's hard to get a decent rate.

My SIL lives in Douglasville (SW ATL, GA) and is a careful conscientious driver driving a 2-3 YO CRV AWD &, like my wife, addicted to cruise control - so no jack-rabbit starts, high speeds etc. and they both pay stupid premiums based on place of residence.
If I lived in Memphis and actually drove there would probably be dead people all over the roads, cuz like road rage. So to save lives including my own, I don't.

And it's like that here too. Got behind a woman who was fixing her hair while driving, mirror on the sun shade, When she was doing her hair she would slow way down, in a double yellow line, and then get done and speed up in a passing zone, but couldn't catch her. Didn't like it and start over etc, for some 8 miles. Told SB I was going to get a 50 Cal and mount it on the roof. We both got on I22 headed for Tupelo and told SB she's headed to Memphis to party. We turned at the mall and she kept right on going. And if a woman has done her hair in the car and doesn't take the mall exit, they are headed for Memphis. Cuz like what woman could by pass shopping? LOL

I use my cruise all the time as well. I'm a bit of a lead foot and it keeps me just over the speed limit. If lead foot took over it would be way over the speed limit.

And driving my grandmother around .... well let's just say she would get so limber sitting in the passenger side, she would flop around like a fish, back and forth side to side. Which taught me to ease on the brake, and slowly apply gas. If she was sitting still, I knew I was doing good. It was like having a gold fish bowl next to me.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
I've often considered getting an old PRE-computer, I can fix it, nothing fancy 4x4 pickup truck and strip it down to it's basic elements and then armor plate it and convert it into a SUV type survival carry-all with components so basic that every part could be manufactured onsite or found in any junk yard.

1710359784683.jpeg :rofl:
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I will say Wisconsin is MUCH snowier than Chicago.
In Chicago, I would say I NEED 4WD about 2-3x/year. For a 3mpg penalty, and a 3k price increase. I passed.
The price penalty for AWD on a new Murano is $1600. Thankfully, mine isn’t new.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Be careful with oil weight changes especially if the motor has high pressure oil(diesel) or vct cams.
Thanks for putting that out there-new cars tend to be VERY finicky with what oil they use.

Toyotas generally use that 0w-16 oil these days. It looks like brown water, but it's what your Toyota needs. The engine tolerances are so tight that "water" is all you need for proper lubrication.

People who own BMW's tend to not put the right oil in them. People used to put heavier oils in Older BMWs to keep the oil leaks from being bad. They carry that notion to their new BMW, then wonder why (after about 3k miles from the oil change) their VANOS system is throwing codes. (VANOS is BMW speak for variable valve timing. It's electonic and oil pressure regulated). Repairs are silly expensive.
 

RememberGoliad

Veteran Member
I always drove clunkers and you had to 'hear' what was going on.

This. 100%. I cannot stand for the radio to be on when driving down the road. Can't hear wheel bearings, tire knots, etc. I do not like surprises of that sort.

My oldest is an '86 and newest <snork, snicker> is 2003. Any of them, I'd climb in and go wherever I have a mind to go. And they won't tell anybody LOL
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I love what I call “blessed silence” while driving. It lets me focus on the drive and unwind from a day’s cares to boot. And that’s truly ironic cuz the Murano sound system has like five different inputs that you can select for music. I’ve never used more than two.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
I totally miss my '85 Big Bronco with it's inline 300 BIG SIX. Damn thing would climb ANYTHING in Low-low, or as I called it TANK GEAR!! If I hadn't sold it I was going to install an electronic ignition to get rid of that Thin Film ignition BS. Add an Offenhauser intake with a quadajet four barrel carb and a dual exhaust manifold. The Inline 300 cid was a tank with more torque than common sense, but was totally under carbed.
 

RememberGoliad

Veteran Member
The Inline 300 cid was a tank with more torque than common sense, but was totally under carbed.

They'll whistle and wheeze and make all sorts of unique noises, but they'll pull a chinese water buffalo up through a deep water well! I miss my 300 in an old F100 I had in high school. Still got the 300 but the truck rusted out from too many beach trips :/

If I can't get the 351 in my new-to-me '86 F250 to run right, it's gettin' that old 300!
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thanks for putting that out there-new cars tend to be VERY finicky with what oil they use.

Toyotas generally use that 0w-16 oil these days. It looks like brown water, but it's what your Toyota needs. The engine tolerances are so tight that "water" is all you need for proper lubrication.

People who own BMW's tend to not put the right oil in them. People used to put heavier oils in Older BMWs to keep the oil leaks from being bad. They carry that notion to their new BMW, then wonder why (after about 3k miles from the oil change) their VANOS system is throwing codes. (VANOS is BMW speak for variable valve timing. It's electonic and oil pressure regulated). Repairs are silly expensive.
Thanks for that info. Not a big car guy, so was a bit concerned with the 0w-16 oil. Especially since the only producer I could find around here was Chevron, which is ok, but if it so good why weren't more producing it. That was on my mind.

And they may be but it wasn't on our MS shelves.

The Rav sits a lot (which back in the day was a selling point, she only drove it on Sundays to church) and as I said earlier we will have it a year in May. And just broke the 3000 mile mark.

And with my 2002 Jeep 138,000 miles at 50 and 100,000 I put full synthetic "Slick 50" because it sits a lot too. concerned about the seals drying out. It says to use 10w-30 and best do it, cuz with 5w-30 the oil light will come on for low pressure.

Point being do you think when we hit that type of mileage, it would be possible to add something, or is the oil, etc.... at such a point there is no need for it? Appreciate any advice, plan on keeping the Rav for a long, long time.

ETA: they also say to not change the oil but every 10,000 miles and I'm old school, so I'd go to hell if I didn't do it every 3,000, but told the salesman, I'd be back for my free oil change at 5,000.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
They'll whistle and wheeze and make all sorts of unique noises, but they'll pull a chinese water buffalo up through a deep water well! I miss my 300 in an old F100 I had in high school. Still got the 300 but the truck rusted out from too many beach trips :/

If I can't get the 351 in my new-to-me '86 F250 to run right, it's gettin' that old 300!

The weakness in the 300 was that it was UNDER carberated, and that Thin Film Ignition system they used. A one barrel carb on that stout engine was a joke. A dual carb set up or a Quadrajet totally turns on the beast in this machine. The TFI was simply just not reliable and being right above the exhaust manifold was a REALLY DUMB place to put something that was heat sensitive.

Ideally an intake injection system would be the total BOMB....and a simple but strong electronic ignition system with the proper intake and exhaust manifolds removes 99% of engine issues. :sal:

1710436393954.jpeg
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
I drove for many yrs without a radio.

always wanted 1.

finally, I got a vehicle with a radio.

never turned it on

I always drove clunkers and you had to 'hear' what was going on.

One time I pict up a hitchiker, and a sound came from under the hood.

sorta like sumtin let loose and you could hear it hit the pavement

hiker said "aint you gonna stop and see what it was?"

I told him "we're still moving, aint we?"

when I got home it was the battery holder had rotted off.

no biggie.

just a bungy cord fix.
And, you had 1 or more in the car right? Plus a large roll of duct tape?
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
The weakness in the 300 was that it was UNDER carberated, and that Thin Film Ignition system they used. A one barrel carb on that stout engine was a joke. A dual carb set up or a Quadrajet totally turns on the beast in this machine. The TFI was simply just not reliable and being right above the exhaust manifold was a REALLY DUMB place to put something that was heat sensitive.

Ideally an intake injection system would be the total BOMB....and a simple but strong electronic ignition system with the proper intake and exhaust manifolds removes 99% of engine issues. :sal:

View attachment 465259
I have a buddy (old bush pilot, ex-Cdn CG) with a similar real bronco; just not nearly so pretty as the above. His is an old Alberta Forestry Green 300 CID, MT and there's nothing shiny left on it.

Last time I saw it the odo read 495,xxx kms and he bought it about 175.

I swear he'll be buried in it
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thanks for that info. Not a big car guy, so was a bit concerned with the 0w-16 oil. Especially since the only producer I could find around here was Chevron, which is ok, but if it so good why weren't more producing it. That was on my mind.

And they may be but it wasn't on our MS shelves.

The Rav sits a lot (which back in the day was a selling point, she only drove it on Sundays to church) and as I said earlier we will have it a year in May. And just broke the 3000 mile mark.

And with my 2002 Jeep 138,000 miles at 50 and 100,000 I put full synthetic "Slick 50" because it sits a lot too. concerned about the seals drying out. It says to use 10w-30 and best do it, cuz with 5w-30 the oil light will come on for low pressure.

Point being do you think when we hit that type of mileage, it would be possible to add something, or is the oil, etc.... at such a point there is no need for it? Appreciate any advice, plan on keeping the Rav for a long, long time.

ETA: they also say to not change the oil but every 10,000 miles and I'm old school, so I'd go to hell if I didn't do it every 3,000, but told the salesman, I'd be back for my free oil change at 5,000.
If you're still doing ok with that motor with those mileages, I wouldn't add any oil additives. Just change the oil every 5K miles as you're doing.
 

tm1439m

Veteran Member
2003 and 2005 Jeep TJs That inline 6 is bullet proof as long as you keep up with the oil. My 1st TJ had 287K miles on it with no engine issues ever. Most expensive repair was getting the heater core replaced. That was until I totaled it in VT. :(

Check out Rock Auto for mail order parts. They carry parts for brands I've never heard of amd multiple version of many parts to match OEM stuff.
I have a 2004 Jeep with only 11,000 miles on it. Bought it new and it sets in the garage 99% of the time. There is nothing on that vehicle I can not fix myself. I like that.
 

tm1439m

Veteran Member
That is one collectible Jeep!
It looks brand spanking new. Never sees rain or snow and little to no sun all these years. Still has the original tires on it lol. They still have the little spiky things on them. Matter of fact I have all the original parts including the oil filter. It has a soft top and it still looks new. Windows are still clear. The bumpers are still black and fenders. Sunlight is what causes all the deterioration I assume. Paint is perfect. No scratches or blems of any kind.
 
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