The GOP's only hope is to drop social issues and go Libertarian.

Troke

On TB every waking moment
http://reason.com/archives/2012/11/09/why-mitt-romney-lost-and-the-gop-will-co/print

How did Mitt Romney and the Republican Party blow it all so badly?

The short answer is that the GOP insisted on pushing backward-looking social issues in a country that is increasingly libertarian.

The White House, a Senate majority, and strengthened control in the House of Representatives was not simply within reach for the Party of Lincoln this election cycle. It was gift-wrapped and adorned with pretty little bows. President Barack Obama presided over the worst economy in memory—a situation greatly exacerbated by the very policies he implemented to restart the economy; U.S. foreign policy is a shambles and our standing even (especially?) in the countries we “liberated” recently from autocracy is plummeting; and a record number of voters had disaffiliated from the Democratic Party since 2008. The president was pulling bad numbers right up to the eve of the election.

And yet Obama won re-election easily and the Democrats gained a net two seats in the Senate (including wins in Missouri and Indiana that should have been easy Republican victories). That’s because the GOP, despite its endlessly repeated mantra of limited government, is wildly out of touch with the majority of Americans who consistently say they want the government to do less, spend less, and not enforce a single set of values.

There’s no question that on broadly defined social issues such as immigration, marriage equality, and drug policy, Barack Obama has been terrible. He’s deported record numbers of immigrants and his late-campaign exemption of some younger undocumented immigrants was one of the most cycnical policy changes imaginable. Yet he managed to increase his take of the Latino vote precisely because Mitt Romney and the Republicans are even worse (at least rhetorically) on the issue. Romney called for “self-deportation” during the Republican primary season and attacked Gov. Rick Perry—who pulls upward of 40 percent of Latino voters in Texas—for his mildly pro-immigrant stance (in his 2004 re-election bid, George W. Bush received around 40 percent on the Latino vote). If Republican representatives such as Steve King (R-Iowa) continue to talk about immigrants as akin to dogs and livestock, there’s no way that the party can expect Hispanics to vote for them. Or non-Hispanics who are rightly disturbed by such attitudes.

Similar dynamics hold true on issues such as drug policy and marriage equality, each of which passed handily in various state ballot initiatives. Obama has raided medical marijuana dispensaries that are legal under state law without a second thought. Now that Washington and Colorado have legalized not just medical marijuana but all pot, the GOP should stay true to its valorization of federalism and the states as “laboratories of democracy” and call for an end to the federal drug war. The same goes for gay marriage, which is supported by a majority of Americans and passed in Maryland, Maine, and Washington state—even as an anti-marriage equality amendment to Minnesota’s state constitution went down to defeat. It’s fully consistent for small-government Republicans—who rarely miss an opportunity to talk about returning “power” to the states—to champion these developments. As Romney has put it, "Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that’s the right direction."

The GOP has a major problem with women voters, who perceive it as either hostile or indifferent to questions about reproductive freedom and choice. Obama won women's votes by 12 percentage points this time around, about the same as he did in 2008 (which suggests this year's result is not a stray indicator). There’s no question that the media and Democrats made a huge deal out of Todd Akin’s bizarre biological disquisitions and Richard Mourdock’s principled commitment to an extreme pro-life position. But the reason such statements resonated with voters is because they confirm the idea of the GOP as an anti-sex, anti-abortion party that routinely says the government is awful at everything it does but should have the final say over whether women can get abortions. That’s a contradictory message that is also wildly at odds with the 77 percent of Americans who believe that abortion should be legal under at least some circumstances.

If Republicans failed to engage the libertarian sentiments of voters when it comes to social issues, it also failed to put forth a serious alternative to Obama’s dismal record of increasing government spending (with promises of yet more to come). Indeed, Romney and his fellow Republicans simply did not lay out budget plans that called for specific major cuts to programs even as they called for tax cuts. Instead, we heard only that President Romney would eventually reduce spending to 20 percent of GDP—a level that is still more than two full percentage points above the post-war average for revenue as a percentage of GDP. At the same time and despite a 70 percent-plus increased in military spending over the past decade, Romney committed to the "goal of setting core defense spending...at a floor of 4 percent of GDP" (emphasis in original). Add to that Romney’s inability to say flatly that he would actually repeal Obama’s health-care reform, something everyone understands will cost far more and deliver far less than promised. Instead, Romney averred that he would keep the parts he liked. To a population rightly worried about the looming fiscal cliff, out-of-control spenidng, and massive national debt, the GOP economic plan was weak tea, an echo of the Democratic plan of spending more and more and figuring out how to pay for it sometime in the future.

So far, the right-wing response to the GOP's drubbing has been strange, to say the least. Right-wing activist Richard Viguerie, dubbed "conservative of the century" by the Washington Times, has said, "Republicans ran away from such issues as same-sex marriage, religious freedom and Obama’s war on the Catholic Church." At City Journal, the influential publication of the conservative Manhattan Institute, Andrew Klavan proposes that right-wingers play the "long game" by taking over the media and culture industries and stressing Judeo-Christian values because "an irreligious people cannot be free."

Charles Krauthammer counsels to keep on keepin' on: "There’s no need for radical change," he says. Don't sweat the increase in minorities, he says, married women still vote Republicans. He's right on that, but wrong to ignore shifts in public attitudes that are broad-based and, even more important, party planks that are flatly inconsistent with stated GOP ideology and recent experience with Republican legislators. George W. Bush and a Republican Congress (whose leadership remains firmly in power) massively expanded state spending and control of all aspects of life. They rushed us into wars and then prosecuted them poorly. While Obama has simply piled spending, debt, and stupid foreign policy decisions on top of all that, it didn't mean that voters were willing to vote Romney as the lesser of two evils. Sometimes you stick with the devil you know.

If Republicans want a game plan for the future, they should take a long look at the strong response to former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, who pulled over 1 million votes and over 1 percent of the total ballots cast as the Libertarian Party candidate. That’s the best result for a Libertarian since 1980 and it comes in an election that was cast in apocalyptic terms—one in which votes were supposed to be so important you shouldn't waste yours on third-party candidates. Johnson, who had virtually no money to spend, got his votes not by carving special exceptions to limited government principles when it comes military spending or lifestyle choices or immigration or on whatever issue the GOP assumes voters want an activist government. Quite the opposite: He made a consistent case for limited government that is completely in line with what a majority of voters say they want.

For the Republicans to succeed, they need to confront and work through their contradictions. First and foremost, they need to be internally consistent when it comes to the limited-government ideology they claim makes them different from Democrats. Everyone understands that political parties are broad collections of interest groups that may actually have little in common but have decided to band together out of necessity. The role of party ideology or rhetoric is to take these disparate interests and make them seem like a coherent entity when they are anything but. There's no necessary connection between, say, between wanting to reduce top marginal income tax rates and supporting a ban on flag burning or any given position on abortion, even as the contemporary Republican Party would argue that these are all beads on the same necklace (the Democrats are similary chock full of random positions). The GOP has reached a point where its insistence on choice in some areas (say, the decision to buy health insurance or where to send your kids to school or whether states can opt out of this or that federal program or law) is plainly at odds with so many of its other positions that something has got to give. When Charles Krauthammer suggests "we had a winning message but didn't communicate it well enough," he's exactly wrong. The GOP has a muddled message that it's been communicating about as well as anyone can.

Why is it important for Republicans to put forth a better effort? Because the only way a first-past-the-post system like we have in the United States functions well is when the two major parties (and there will always only be two major parties, though what they stand for can and does change) present not just starkly different rhetoric but starkly different choices to voters. Back in 1964, when the modern GOP moved decisively toward the libertarian, limited-government sensibility of Barry Goldwater, his followers proudly proclaimed that he offered "a choice, not an echo" not just to Lyndon Johnson but to the post-war consensus of rule by elites and centralized experts. Goldwater and his crew were as different from Rockefeller Republicans as they were from any Democrat.

When it comes to spending, economic intervention, foreign policy, executive power, and civil liberties in the 21st century, there has been precious little daylight between the Republicans and the Democrats (do we really need to rehearse GOP-backed initiatives such as No Child Left Behind, Sarbanes-Oxley, the creation of the Transportation Security Administration, Medicare Part D, TARP, and the first auto bailout?). To the extent that the GOP offers a choice on broadly defined social issues, it is a party anchored firmly in the past that needs the federal government (of all entities) to enforce its desired positions on abortion, drug legalization, and marriage.

That's simply no way to woo the increasing number of libertarian voters and of other independent voters who have turned away in increasing numbers from the Democrats and Republicans as worn-out artifacts of the dim past. The GOP can lick its wounds and tell themselves whatever they want to hear—that it was the media's fault, that they need to be more religious, that they just need better candidates, or whatever. But until the party actually changes its positions on basic policy issues and articulates a clear and consistent role for limited government, it has nowhere to go but down.
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Have you noticed how many people have suggested that the only hope for the GOP is to espouse all the social-issue positions of the Democrats?

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."
 

Flippper

Time Traveler
The entire premise rests upon the theory that this was an above board, fair election and that all votes were counted properly and reported exactly as they were.

Which of course didn't happen.

Oboingo would have had to show proof of citizenship.

Romney would never have been chosen by the rnc.

Ron Paul would have been on the ballot.

There was absolutely nothing above board in this election.
 

JF&P

Deceased
Hah

Libertarians as a whole would never fair well.....BUT

Don't folks understand, America has gone to hell already, there is no political solution....

We've been set up and the die is cast.
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
Hah

Libertarians as a whole would never fair well.....BUT

Don't folks understand, America has gone to hell already, there is no political solution....

We've been set up and the die is cast.

Ron Paul won Iowa.
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
Why should governments be involved in personal social issues at all? We all espouse a smaller government, fine start by keeping it out of people's personal lives and the decisions it makes.

THe Democrats seem fine with controlling aspects of our personal lives and pretty much say so. The Republicans promote an agenda that is every bit as controlling of private lives, yet they espouse they do not, liars.

This is why I dropped my Republican Party (neo-conservative) affiliation. I want politics & government out of my personal life, be it Democrat or Republican, just get the hell out.
 

Flippper

Time Traveler
Good points DA. The problem is, a true Constitutional Republic with minimal gov't would be so foreign to the gibsmedats and libs who want someone to treat them like 2 year olds, they do not want ANY responsibilities for anything, heck, they'd probably prefer someone wipe their heiney if they could get away with it-they would have issues. Gotta say I like that problem. ;)

I am all for personal responsibility and the freedom in all facets that implies. It's more work, but it's also invigorating to the soul. The "republican" party has morphed into something distasteful that has nothing to do with The Republic. People stay because there is no alternative, if there was, the moderate and conservative Republicans would go there, the liberal republicans (oxymoron if you ask me) would go to the democrat party. But many who went Libertarian would go to the new 'true' Republican party.

The GOP has been successfully infiltrated and marginalized.
 

Bicycle Junkie

Resident dissident and troll
In the past Pat Buchanan has described the Republican Party as the "War Party" due to the neo-cons.

Recently Pastor Baldwin wrote an article asking why evangelical Christians are pro-war.

Ron Paul was ridiculed for wanting to bring troops home from overseas deployments.

I'd say it's time for Republicans to eschew their neo-con, militaristic platforms.

Republicans constantly rant about wanting a balanced budget only with spending cuts. That would be impossible without drastic cuts in the military budget. The founding fathers did not believe in having a large standing army, and they were very isolationist in their world views.
 
Have you noticed how many people have suggested that the only hope for the GOP is to espouse all the social-issue positions of the Democrats?...


Yup - that would sure "do it" - make themselves so close to the dems as to be completely indistinguishable from them...perhaps in hopes of CONFUSING voters???

Endless cycles of recriminations going on - the blame is being passed around like the hot potato it is.

2014 election cycle has already started. - can hardly wait...for what I've no idea....
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Can't go for the free drug policy. At least 85% of our County cases of child abuse and neglect involve meth. The families of drug users drain our tax resources as we house them in the jail, treat them for drug abuse, counsel them, feed, cloth and house them and then prosecute them for crimes committed upon their neighbors. Drug and alcohol abuse are family diseases and they soke up public resources like nobody's business. Their lifestyles drag down neighborhoods and terrorize communities. They rot the energy and ambition of youth affecting all of our futures. Nothing good can come of encouraging more rot.
 

My Adonai

Veteran Member
Republicans - the "war is good business" party.

Too white
Too rich
Too old
TOO STUPID!!!!!

this was the only element of the dem platform I agreed with...bringing the boys and girls home by 2014 at the latest. No more interfering wars, even those that supposedly 'protect' American 'interests'.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Uhh, the Libertarians have been on the ballot in every election for quite a while now. Last Tuesday they got 9 tenths of 1 percent. Thats .009 of the vote.
They are not going to replace anybody anytime soon.
I like a lot of their platform, especially the financial part and a smart republican party would pick a few of the platform issues for inclussion, But, I said "smart republican party" and unfortunately Repubs have a mad obsession with shooting themselves in the foot, or fighting it out with each other instead of the opposition.

Another thing..... The OP assumes that people vote on the issues.
Some people do, but far more vote on one issue, or who looks like them, or who will give them money.
As far as foreign policy awareness they have no clue.
Ask them who the FED is and they will say it's an FBI agent.
Ask them where Karrachi is and they will say between your legs.
Ask them about the Obama phone and they will tell you how many minutes a month they get, coverage exceptions areas and how to get a new one for free if it breaks.

So tell me again how important issues about the economy or foreign policy matter to these folks, and how they will just flock to libertarian principles.
 
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banana.republic.us

Senior Member
In the 80's I listened to Gene Burns, a talk show host out of The Peoples City of Boston. Gene was a libertarian, and I was a budding libertarian.

Abortion was constantly discussed and Gene often pointed out the silly CONtradictions of the republican stand on Abortion. Rape and incest.

Seriously, a life, inconvenient as it may be, is a life. A Life. It took a while for me to turn full out pro life. It took 20 years or more. I'm now pro life. I'm still a libertarian by the way. Gene's position was rather pure...It had nothing to do with the state, unless someone was calling on the state to defend a life, then it could get messy. He also thought abortion was best fought in the minds of the electorate

Gay weddings don't disturb me. I could care less what contractual deals two consenting adults make with regard to their property. Why should you? What is a marriage about anyway other than the joining of peoples present and future property?

If someone wants to do drugs, and their actions as a result of their intoxication doesn't mess with your world, then why should you care? I've done acid, mushrooms, mescaline, and other drugs when I was young. Did you notice? Did my actions somehow effect you? OF course not. Why should you care? Why would you waste States resources dealing with my "transgressions"?

As far as the crap in MENA. why would I living in a FEMA region give a damn about those crazy Muzzies?

Unless, of course, I wanted to control their oil with my weak and depreciating currency?

The trouble with the republican party is they are trying to be democrats. If they went full bore liberty, then they would rule the elections. If they were a real pary, separate from the democorps then they would do this. As they stand now they are just a foil, allowing the globalists to provide you with an illusion of choice.

Good luck with this.

As for me, I'll sit back and be amused.
 

Army Girl

Inactive
NO GOV Bailouts.

Make peace not war = less expenditures on military, all people over the whole earth will be for this, they already are.

No alliances with other nations treat them all the same unless they do something to us.

Stop foreign aid = less expenditures

Turn back the hands of time and make all americans equal = no more affrimative action and special government programs because of special considerations.

Gov. needs to get out of the bad habit of funding businesses and let everyone strive the same.

Build up the USA through thoughtful deregulation and free market procedures which will cause more business = less government. Make the FDA go away and start something new that will actually combat harmful foods and drugs coming on the market.

Gov. needs to let people do what they want to their bodies and let them pay for it how they want = more health choices will drive costs down. Gov. out of medical altogether, set up a oversight by medical people including alternative medical.

Legalize the weed = less expenditures for courts and prisons. (not dangerous drugs like meth etc. and pharm stuff) = jobs in the hemp and canabis(sp?) industries. Keep the WoD for meth and all that dangerous trash.

Close the IRS except for a flat or fair tax. Herman Caine (sp?) was doing well with his tax idea...people would get behind this.

Leave the states to make their own laws and protect our borders and world reputation.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Banana Repub
You must not have known Gene Burns when he was a flaming liberal in Florida back in the 70s
 
What TerryK said in Post #14.

Bingo - but that's fact and reality - which often doesn't play in politics when agendas count more.
 

Brutus

Membership Revoked
from the article said:
The GOP has a major problem with women voters, who perceive it as either hostile or indifferent to questions about reproductive freedom and choice.

What a sick, twisted, SATANIC f***king euphemism for killing babies.

This country is going down, down, down, down.

:shk:
 

Brutus

Membership Revoked
Why should governments be involved in personal social issues at all? We all espouse a smaller government, fine start by keeping it out of people's personal lives and the decisions it makes.

THe Democrats seem fine with controlling aspects of our personal lives and pretty much say so. The Republicans promote an agenda that is every bit as controlling of private lives, yet they espouse they do not, liars.

This is why I dropped my Republican Party (neo-conservative) affiliation. I want politics & government out of my personal life, be it Democrat or Republican, just get the hell out.

If you're talking about abortion, how far do you want to take it?

Why should murder of a person AFTER they exit the womb be a crime?

:shr:
 

Brutus

Membership Revoked
He must have matured. I did.

The conservatives need to stop worrying about how people please themselves below the belt.

It's destroying the cause of liberty.

That depends on where you think "liberty" comes from and even what "liberty" really is.

Liberty is a condition we enjoy as a blessing from our Creator. The Founding Fathers believed that, but sadly people nowadays have cast that sort of belief aside as un-cool, un-hip, passe', whatever.

Liberty and license are not the same thing. Celebration and official recognition of perversion as being "just as good as" normal male/female relations hasn't a DAMNED thing to do with liberty. It has everything to do with LICENSE, or as it was put in the Bible, LICENTIOUSNESS.

:rolleyes:
 
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