CORONA When is immunity....NOT immunity?

[ShadowMan]

Had a strange flashback this morning. Back in the dark ages of last century when you got your immunity from infectious diseases by actually catching and surviving the disease. My younger brother caught the Mumps, a pretty common occurrence in the 50's and 60's. Not once, not twice, but three times. First one side, then the other and then both sides. Not back to back infections but over the course of a year or two. My Dad quarantined us together every time he got sick in a darkened bedroom figuring I'd already been exposed and would soon show symptoms as well. Remember that this was a period when if one kid on the block got Chicken Pox all the parents sent their kids to play with the infected kid just to get it done and over with. Most Mom's back then were stay at home Mom's so there was someone there 24/7 to take care of you. It was just the expedient thing to do.

Like I said earlier my younger brother caught the Mumps three times.....me.......ZERO!! Not a single symptom. Go figure. So fast forward to my first tour in the navy as a Hospital Corpsman working in the emergency room. We're now into the era of everyone getting vaccinated for everything. If a kid happened to be checked into the E/R with suspicion of Mumps I immediately backed away and got someone else to check them in and deal with them. Technically I'd never had the Mumps. Well one day that happened and my boss wanted to know why I backed away so fast. I told him my story and said I didn't want to catch Mumps as an adult. Very bad JuJu for adults with Mumps. So he had me draw a Blood Titer for Mumps and low and behold I had antibodies against Mumps. Not only antibodies, but strong antibodies! Go figure.

My point here is that just because you've had something once or even twice does not guarantee squat. And just because you've showed no symptoms doesn't mean you don't have resistance. And even having antibodies or a vaccination or just plain dumb luck is no excuse not to use whatever precautions or common sense that you have to protect yourself and others against possible infections.

Also, while in general vaccinations are a good thing for the vast majority of people they are still no guarantee of immunity. Nothing in life, except for death and taxes is guaranteed. Word to the wise folks. Just because the government or some supposed expert spouts this or that....it's no guarantee. Remember....only DEATH and TAXES are guaranteed.

 

[Grouchy Granny]

I hear ya - I had every variety of measles known to man at the time (the 50's and 60's). I was in Jr High and had just gotten over a case of the mumps when I got the measles (which flavor I don't remember).

As for chicken pox - yep, had those too. My brother had them so bad that they were internal, very few external pox's. The Quack keeps wanting me to get a shingles shot but I'm very very leery about that one. I don't care what they say - I had chicken pox really really bad. One grandkid got them 3 times....

One thing we do seem to be resistant to is strep - no one in my family has ever had strep, even though exposed numerous times.

Human resistance varies from person to person and I defy any quack to tell me different.

 

[Dozdoats]

One thing Corona Chan did was force me into a self study on layman level virology. I got Hatfill's book first, then a tome on herbal antivirals, and just finished Mikovits' new book.

As a result I feel pretty sure that a lot of first world medical problems come from retroviruses that have piggybacked across species due to vaccines. All the way back to the mid-1930s and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). Seems mothers with CFS tend to have kids with autism, but we are not allowed to speculate that there might be a vaccine/autism connection. Or that the nation's blood supply has been tainted for decades.

Immunity is where you find it, and vaccines can damage your natural immune system. But big money and big pharma (as well as big government) can over-ride science.

 

[WalknTrot]

Yep...everyone is different and shit happens.

Far as I've seen...nobody is perfectly "normal". We are all variations on a general theme.

 

[raven]

Since you are talking about Mumps . . . go to the CDC website and check out the statistics on the Mumps vaccine.

The Mumps vaccine was developed in 1967. There has been no significant R&D on the product since that time.

MMR vaccine is very safe and effective. The mumps component of the MMR vaccine is about 88% (range: 31-95%) effective when a person gets two doses; one dose is about 78% (range: 49%−92%) effective.

Effective? One dose is 49% to 92% effective. Two doses increase effectiveness 31% to 95%.
Read that again and look at those numbers.
It never reaches 100%.
With two doses, the lower range of effectiveness becomes less effective.
And note, they do not describe it as a "booster" because it isn't. It is a second dose.
They are practicing medicine via statistical modeling. If the first dose was effective for you, then it was effective. The are giving the second dose for those people it did not work on the first time. But instead of identifying those people in which the vaccine did not take, they just inject everyone with the vaccine a second time.

BTW, they say it wears off which is why they want you to get a third dose when you go to University. It doesn't. They are requiring it a third time, because the effectiveness is so low and when you go to college, you come into contact with foreign students and your "herd immunity" just went out the window.

Mumps Vaccination | CDC

Mumps is a contagious disease that is caused by a virus. Mumps typically starts with fever, headache, muscle aches, tiredness, and loss of appetite. Then, most people will have swelling of their salivary glands, which causes puffy cheeks and a tender, swollen jaw.

www.cdc.gov

MMR vaccine is very safe and effective. The mumps component of the MMR vaccine is about 88% (range: 31-95%) effective when a person gets two doses; one dose is about 78% (range: 49%−92%) effective.

 

[mzkitty]

As for chicken pox - yep, had those too. My brother had them so bad that they were internal, very few external pox's. The Quack keeps wanting me to get a shingles shot but I'm very very leery about that one. I don't care what they say - I had chicken pox really really bad. One grandkid got them 3 times....

I mentioned on another thread a while back that the first shingles shot is nothing. The second one might lay you out for almost a week, like it did me, plus a giant red lump on my arm. I guess it's worth it though. People in their 70's are susceptible to shingles, from what I've read, although I only knew one person who ever had them that I remember, and she was probably in her 40's at the time. She was a nurse.

 

[naturallysweet]

The test for HIV looks for antibodies. which means having antibodies just proves a past or present infection, not resistance.

those of you with Facebook should really check out the Covid pages. Thousands of people who have had it for months unrelenting. We really don't know what it's doing to people.
I'm still short of breath getting out of bed in the morning. Just started my 3rd week. Hoping my sense of taste and smell come back. Hoping I will be able to do some farm work.

 

[Raggedyman]

One thing Corona Chan did was force me into a self study on layman level virology. I got Hatfill's book first, then a tome on herbal antivirals, and just finished Mikovits' new book.

As a result I feel pretty sure that a lot of first world medical problems come from retroviruses that have piggybacked across species due to vaccines. All the way back to the mid-1930s and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). Seems mothers with CFS tend to have kids with autism, but we are not allowed to speculate that there might be a vaccine/autism connection. Or that the nation's blood supply has been tainted for decades.

Immunity is where you find it, and vaccines can damage your natural immune system. But big money and big pharma (as well as big government) can over-ride science.

although never a fan of BIG PHARMA I have come to despise these vampire bastards who now OVERSHADOW the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX by vast sums on a yearly basis. what you've stated above regarding the DANGERS inherent in over immunizing was once accepted as common knowledge. you and I and many other here are from the era ShadowMan describes - I can remember my sister and I being sent over to visit the neighbor kid David becasue she wanted us to get the chicken pox.

the last immunizations I've had were those I stood in line for in the late 60's before we were deployed overseas. they were given by airgun and I remember I was sick for several days. I have N E V E R had a flu shot. I certainly would never knowingly be vaccinated for pneumonia or shingles.

having said all that understand that I am NOT a member of the anti-vax gang and if you want to get a sick GO FOR IT - but you will NOT be forcing that shit into my system. my belief is that if you take care of your immune system and health in general it will take care of you. for all those with the mindset that its "our responsibility to protect others" my response is that not only am I NOT responsible for others, but the rights of others END where mine begin. that would and CERTAINLY DOES include my right to refuse/decline an invasive act such as vaccination.

as always YMMV . . .

 

[hunybee]

The test for HIV looks for antibodies. which means having antibodies just proves a past or present infection, not resistance.

those of you with Facebook should really check out the Covid pages. Thousands of people who have had it for months unrelenting. We really don't know what it's doing to people.
I'm still short of breath getting out of bed in the morning. Just started my 3rd week. Hoping my sense of taste and smell come back. Hoping I will be able to do some farm work.

i'm praying for you, naturallysweet!

 

[mzkitty]

The test for HIV looks for antibodies. which means having antibodies just proves a past or present infection, not resistance.

those of you with Facebook should really check out the Covid pages. Thousands of people who have had it for months unrelenting. We really don't know what it's doing to people.
I'm still short of breath getting out of bed in the morning. Just started my 3rd week. Hoping my sense of taste and smell come back. Hoping I will be able to do some farm work.

You know, if you've already seen a doc about this, call and ask him/her for a scrip for an inhaler. They work good.

 

[Kathy in FL]

I have had over a dozen MMRs over my lifetime for various reasons and within a year of a vaccine I go down to negative resistance each time. And yet I've never had the measles, mumps, or rubella despite multiple close exposures.

 

[raven]

I am not anti vaccine.
I am a consumer and am adamant about getting what I paid for.

I you give me a vaccine, I expect to be protected - period "." exclamation point "!"

If I get what I was supposed to be protected for, I expect that my healthcare for that treatment will be paid for by the vaccine provider and $1 million a year for the rest of my life.

If the vaccine alters my health negatively, then I expect free healthcare for life AND $1 million a year for the remainder of my life.

If I die then I expect my heirs to receive some predetermined cash settlement in an outrageous amount of money - $10 million each.

If more people treated the vaccine as a consumer product, vaccines would be safer and better.
As long as you treat them as religious magic like eating a cracker and drinking grape juice at the end of the service, they will never get better.

 

[Hometown]

The dark room thing some encountered was measles, they said your eyesight could be damaged or you could go blind. I had all the childhood diseases but polio. Our mother would not vaccinate. I also believe vaccines damage your natural immunity. How can anyone trust these people, not knowing what they're putting in there. Once its in there forget about it, its done, damage is done.
One example that little short expert Dr.Virus? Anybody trust anything about him? He's only been active for 40 yrs. Its just nuts, like everything else.

 

[Walrus Whisperer]

What REALLY chaps my hide is you cannot just get a tetenous shot any more. It's wound up with the diptheria/pertussis shot. I am exposed to the tetenous every day since I am on old farmland with every kind of animal that has been on it. I don't want combo shots, I am not around little kids an don't need those shots. I'm pretty much thinking at 66, I'll just take my chances now. I do NOT take flu, every time I've had one, I get the damn flu. For crying out loud!

 

[Dozdoats]

Tetanus is a major nasty if you get it. If the only way to get the vac is as a combo, it is still worth it IMO.

Those are not the dice I care to roll. And I just got done diggin in the dirt my ownself.

 

[Ragnarok]

"Herd immunity" for this virus is BS, IMHO

 

[raven]

"Herd immunity" for this virus is BS, IMHO

Herd Immunity is BS for any virus.
Because it is not medicine. It is animal husbandry and is based in economics not medicine.
50 years ago, it might have had some meaning for human populations when immigrants were quarantined on Ellis Island and only the very rich could travel by airlines. It was possible to maintain control over your subset of humans to establish a herd of em.

But that bridge was crossed long ago. illegal immigration is legal, borders are porous, and air travel is ubiquitous. There is no herd.
And herd immunity does not protect the individual. It protects the owner from losing the whole herd.

 

[Coco82919]

If there was such a thing as herd immunity to the flu, I would believe there is herd immunity to COVID. However there is not.

 

[zeker]

my dr has been pushing the flu vac for a few yrs, to me

I always tell him NO WAY

end of conversation

he says

we will have this conversation again and again

 

[gunnersmom]

I mentioned on another thread a while back that the first shingles shot is nothing. The second one might lay you out for almost a week, like it did me, plus a giant red lump on my arm. I guess it's worth it though. People in their 70's are susceptible to shingles, from what I've read, although I only knew one person who ever had them that I remember, and she was probably in her 40's at the time. She was a nurse.

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[John Deere Girl]

And just because you've had a vaccine doesn't mean you are immune either. My husband had all the vaccines the military had to offer and has no immunity to several of the illnesses.

 

[John Deere Girl]

The test for HIV looks for antibodies. which means having antibodies just proves a past or present infection, not resistance.

those of you with Facebook should really check out the Covid pages. Thousands of people who have had it for months unrelenting. We really don't know what it's doing to people.
I'm still short of breath getting out of bed in the morning. Just started my 3rd week. Hoping my sense of taste and smell come back. Hoping I will be able to do some farm work.

Im so sorry! I will be praying for you!

 

[Kathy in FL]

Herd immunity is defined as the resistance of a population to a particular pathogen due to immunity of a large percentage of that population to the pathogen. In other words, if you have a community for whom a large number of people has had a particular flu then those in the community that have not had that flu are given a statistical protection because the fewer people who can catch a given pathogen/flu, the less the chance of a susceptible individual is to get whatever is going around.

Vaccines work on the same principle. The greater the number of people that get a particular vaccine, the more unlikely it is for an epidemic to occur.

Regardless of propaganda, there are very few 100% preventions/protections for any given illness.

So for those waiting on a vaccine, you are wasting your time.
For those thinking masks are the best prophylactic, you are dreaming.
For those thinking that getting this bug is 100% foolproof protection, once again nope.

However, natural immunities are scientifically more protective than any artificial prophylactic.

Simply put, covid19 is out of the bag. Masks don't provide the protection most people think and in fact cause the issue of crosscontamination. A vaccine is highly unlikely. But immunity obtained naturally does appear to be a more serious and viable option hence what is called herd immunity. The more people with immunity, the less the chance that a virus has the opportunity to multiply and reach an non-immune member of any given community. And partial natural immunity is what keeps the vast majority of people from getting the flu every year. I suspect the same thing will be true of this particular coronavirus.

 

[Mary Contrary]

Had a strange flashback this morning. Back in the dark ages of last century when you got your immunity from infectious diseases by actually catching and surviving the disease. My younger brother caught the Mumps, a pretty common occurrence in the 50's and 60's. Not once, not twice, but three times. First one side, then the other and then both sides. Not back to back infections but over the course of a year or two. My Dad quarantined us together every time he got sick in a darkened bedroom figuring I'd already been exposed and would soon show symptoms as well. Remember that this was a period when if one kid on the block got Chicken Pox all the parents sent their kids to play with the infected kid just to get it done and over with. Most Mom's back then were stay at home Mom's so there was someone there 24/7 to take care of you. It was just the expedient thing to do.

Like I said earlier my younger brother caught the Mumps three times.....me.......ZERO!! Not a single symptom. Go figure. So fast forward to my first tour in the navy as a Hospital Corpsman working in the emergency room. We're now into the era of everyone getting vaccinated for everything. If a kid happened to be checked into the E/R with suspicion of Mumps I immediately backed away and got someone else to check them in and deal with them. Technically I'd never had the Mumps. Well one day that happened and my boss wanted to know why I backed away so fast. I told him my story and said I didn't want to catch Mumps as an adult. Very bad JuJu for adults with Mumps. So he had me draw a Blood Titer for Mumps and low and behold I had antibodies against Mumps. Not only antibodies, but strong antibodies! Go figure.

My point here is that just because you've had something once or even twice does not guarantee squat. And just because you've showed no symptoms doesn't mean you don't have resistance. And even having antibodies or a vaccination or just plain dumb luck is no excuse not to use whatever precautions or common sense that you have to protect yourself and others against possible infections.

Also, while in general vaccinations are a good thing for the vast majority of people they are still no guarantee of immunity. Nothing in life, except for death and taxes is guaranteed. Word to the wise folks. Just because the government or some supposed expert spouts this or that....it's no guarantee. Remember....only DEATH and TAXES are guaranteed.

I did have both kinds of measles as a kid back in the late 1950's and chicken pox, but i never ever got mumps. Wish i did though. Don't want to get them at age 70!

 

[Mary Contrary]

One thing Corona Chan did was force me into a self study on layman level virology. I got Hatfill's book first, then a tome on herbal antivirals, and just finished Mikovits' new book.

As a result I feel pretty sure that a lot of first world medical problems come from retroviruses that have piggybacked across species due to vaccines. All the way back to the mid-1930s and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). Seems mothers with CFS tend to have kids with autism, but we are not allowed to speculate that there might be a vaccine/autism connection. Or that the nation's blood supply has been tainted for decades.

Immunity is where you find it, and vaccines can damage your natural immune system. But big money and big pharma (as well as big government) can over-ride science.

I agree about the piggybacking.

 

[Wildwood]

My father never caught a single childhood illness...not when he was a child or as an adult when we got them and we had them all.. I don't remember him ever having a virus. He got strep a lot in his early years and he had bacterial infections...a couple of those were lie threatening. He even survived his appendix rupturing in the 40's with no infection...he was in his late teens.

Another strange thing I'm sure isn't related is that he and I were both born on the day we were due with low birth weights but very healthy. He weighed two pounds and I weighed four. My sisters were normal birth weights but I was much healthier than either of them. I did not inherit his resistance to all things viral.

 

[Warthog]

I am not anti vaccine.
I am a consumer and am adamant about getting what I paid for.

I you give me a vaccine, I expect to be protected - period "." exclamation point "!"

If I get what I was supposed to be protected for, I expect that my healthcare for that treatment will be paid for by the vaccine provider and $1 million a year for the rest of my life.

If the vaccine alters my health negatively, then I expect free healthcare for life AND $1 million a year for the remainder of my life.

If I die then I expect my heirs to receive some predetermined cash settlement in an outrageous amount of money - $10 million each.

If more people treated the vaccine as a consumer product, vaccines would be safer and better.
As long as you treat them as religious magic like eating a cracker and drinking grape juice at the end of the service, they will never get better.

I'm anti vaccine!! It just takes some critical thinking. Why would you take a vaccine from the monsters that are responsible for the release of the sickness? Simple as that.