GUNS/RLTD Whistleblowers Allege ATF Is Drafting Rule That Could Effectively Ban Private Firearm Sales

Kathy in FL

Administrator
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Whistleblowers Allege ATF Is Drafting Rule That Could Effectively Ban Private Firearm Sales

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is working on a rule that could effectively ban the sale of firearms between private individuals, agency whistleblowers told a watchdog group.

Empower Oversight, a nonpartisan watchdog representing one of the Hunter Biden Internal Revenue Service whistleblowers, says that ATF whistleblowers informed it of a 1,300-page document being drafted by the agency that would require background checks for all firearm sales, including those between two private individuals. The new rule would “effectively ban private sales of firearms from one citizen to another,” according to a press release from Empower Oversight.

Empower Oversight submitted a records request to the Department of Justice seeking more information about the rule.

The rule would “violate the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution,” according to Empower Oversight President Tristan Leavitt. Leavitt also said the rule would “circumvent the separation of powers in the Constitution.”

Empower Oversight points out that the ATF’s rule could redefine individuals who occasionally sell guns as being “engaged in the business of dealing in firearms,” thus requiring them to acquire a Federal Firearms Licensee and run background checks on whoever they’re selling to.

In the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, Congress established that the term “engaged in the business” of selling guns “shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby.”

Leavitt pointed out that the courts would likely strike down the rule and argued that it is likely a ploy to fire up the Democratic base during an election year.

Private background checks are popular with voters, according to polling data.

A poll conducted by Morning Consult and Politico in 2022 found that 81% of registered voters supported background checks at gun shows and for private transfers.

Support for background checks is lower among Republicans than among Democrats. A 2021 Morning Consult and Politico poll found that 77% of Democrats supported background checks for all gun purchases, compared to just 53% of Republicans.

While Americans are open to background checks, banning certain kinds of firearms is unpopular among Americans.

Only 27% of Americans supported banning handgun ownership as of October 2023, according to Gallup. An April 2023 poll conducted by Monmouth University found that more Americans opposed an “assault weapons” ban than supported it.

The Biden administration has consistently pushed for stricter gun laws.

President Joe Biden pushed a rule that forced people who owned pistols with arm braces to register them as short-barreled rifles, Politico reported. Pistol braces remain legal as states and gun rights groups sue the ATF over the rule.

Registering a short-barreled rifle with the ATF carries a cost of $200. The National Firearms Act, the law requiring the registration of short-barreled rifles, was last updated in 1986.

Short-barreled rifles are illegal in some states.

Biden also banned the sale of firearm parts lacking serial numbers, which can be used to construct “ghost guns,” and has continuously pushed for a so-called assault weapons ban, according to Fox News Digital.

Some gun rights groups are ready to fight the ATF’s rule should it come to fruition.

“The records of these sales will eventually end up in the ATF’s firearm registry database,” director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America (GOA) Aidan Johnston told the Daily Caller News Foundation. The ATF maintains a registry of firearms sales, the Washington Free Beacon reported.

Johnston said GOA is “actively preparing to take legal action if and when Joe Biden’s administration releases their rule change.”

Empower Oversight and the ATF did not immediately respond to the DCNF’s requests for comment.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
2A will prevail until the US gets another Marxist in the Oval Office.

Then, any SCOTUS vacancies will be filled with Marxist fellow-travelers and, over time the changing face of the court will be reflected in what will become the Marxist SJW Re-imagined America.

Count on it
 
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Matt

Veteran Member
Glock switches are illegal yet the legions of hoodrats have them...

Meth and Fentanyl are illegal yet the lady across the street from me sells it with impunity.... in a middle class neighborhood!

Deleting diesel emissions systems is illegal yet the flat bill hat bros still roll coal all around this part of the world....

Couple of cops got their shit pushed in by some illegals in NYC the other day and then released no bail.... at this point phuck anyone that wears a badge... local, state, and especially fed! Sooner they go away the sooner this mess can be corrected!

I am rooting for the 3rd worlders at this point.... John Law has betrayed us all.. at least in anarchy, problems can be solved and nobody cares.... just another body in a ditch!
 
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oops

Veteran Member
If there’s no registration n none kept from prior purchases over past...50+ yrs...how would they know who has or should have what?...let alone if they got it before or after their no longer allowed date ...so exactly how they gona be able to enforce this without acknowledgement by them of having broken their own laws n the constitution...sigh...basically rhetorical question...they never obey their own laws...
 

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
This isn’t a Second Amendment issue, is it, Kathy.

It’s a compromised US citizenship issue.

But let’s just keep complaining about how fickle is Congress and how blank that check the US citizen writes them, to be drawn upon their rights and property at their pleasure.

That’ll fix everything.
 

cetansa

Senior Member
Does anyone remember the definition of INSANITY? Doing the same thing over and over, but with the expectation of different outcomes, that never happens. How can such #$%^&* people get into and stay in positions that they should never have been in. I mean it is a very simple directive given in the founding documents. What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do they not understand? I could go on but why?
 

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I expect that if put into place these "rules" will be just about as effective as prohibition.

“Prohibition” was extremely effective.

It rendered a previously common household tool and societal pleasure a “sin” in the eyes of the majority consenting populace, while simultaneously making a very efficient (with the right engine configuration logistics) engine fuel too expensive an option as compared to, say, petroleum-based…..

Yeah, that.
 

day late

money? whats that?
“Prohibition” was extremely effective.

It rendered a previously common household tool and societal pleasure a “sin” in the eyes of the majority consenting populace, while simultaneously making a very efficient (with the right engine configuration logistics) engine fuel too expensive an option as compared to, say, petroleum-based…..

Yeah, that.

I must agree. Prohibition was very effective. It helped to create the Mafia we have today. Thanks Washington.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
Now private sale does not fall under commerce and the power to regulate that belongs to congress.
Private sale of private property, be it a car or an old weapon you no longer want does not turn you into a business requiring a license or permission from the government, my self like to see proof that all private sales of weapons results in a100% sale to a criminals perhaps we need to control the private sale of cars and hammers as they can be used to commit crimes too.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
How about barter or trade? No money exchanged.
It will be illegal to trade, lend, rent, give any firearm w/o transfer authorisation - that might not be in the first draft but if the Dems manage to squeak such crap through, it will be one of their 1st changes/improvements to follow.
 

ktrapper

Veteran Member
How are they gonna know without full registration.
Without registration the only way they can know is by FFL sales that take place after the new rule. Everything before could have already been sold via private sale.
 
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SSTemplar

Veteran Member
It is simple. If you obey bureaucratic rules you deserve to be ruled over by bureaucrats. They are rules not laws.
 

subnet

Boot
Does anyone remember the definition of INSANITY? Doing the same thing over and over, but with the expectation of different outcomes, that never happens. How can such #$%^&* people get into and stay in positions that they should never have been in. I mean it is a very simple directive given in the founding documents. What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do they not understand? I could go on but why?
They will continue to throw shit against the wall and see what sticks, sooner or later they win because we cant win when we always play defense and they know it.
 

ssbn642blue

Veteran Member
Does anyone remember the definition of INSANITY? Doing the same thing over and over, but with the expectation of different outcomes, that never happens. How can such #$%^&* people get into and stay in positions that they should never have been in. I mean it is a very simple directive given in the founding documents. What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do they not understand? I could go on but why?
It's called the Administrative State.
 

ssbn642blue

Veteran Member
How are they gonna know without full registration.
Without registration the only way they can know is by FFL sales that take place after the new rule. Everything before could have already been sold via private sale.
Seriously, you believe the ATF does not know what you've bought in the last 40 years?
 

Squib

Veteran Member
How are they gonna know without full registration.
Without registration the only way they can know is by FFL sales that take place after the new rule. Everything before could have already been sold via private sale.

Remember Randy Weaver?

The gov. will have countless agents entrapping people and countless C.I.’s ratting out people and helping in setting them up.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
If there’s no registration n none kept from prior purchases over past...50+ yrs...how would they know who has or should have what?...let alone if they got it before or after their no longer allowed date ...so exactly how they gona be able to enforce this without acknowledgement by them of having broken their own laws n the constitution...sigh...basically rhetorical question...they never obey their own laws...

Simple, they will charge and prosecute you and make you prove you didn't violate the law/rule. It works now, so why not?

Flinging feces. It will not hold up.

It is lawfare, they don't care if it holds up in the long run. They damage a lot of people over the 5+ years that it would take to have it overturned.
 

bcingu

Senior Member
In the Supreme Court's latest ruling concerning the 2nd Amendment & the ATF the court stated yet again, "The ATF annoy create law."
 
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