CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

AS-Source News‏ @ASBreakingNews 1m1 minute ago

BREAKING: #CoronaVirus- AFRICA- #Kenya - first suspected case.

TheSearcher said:

I would like to explore it just a little further on this thread. I think there are real implications that are cogent to the discussion. If you'll allow me to get to a proper keyboard, I can express myself better than poking at my phone.

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I have started another thread for this, can we please, please, please take this type of discussion over there? Not only is it distracting here but comments are likely to get lost on this large a thread.

Your friend's daughter appears to be a keeper by her attitude!

And I'd concur with her response.

She MIGHT have counselled you that we are JUST A HAIR early to state a kill rate/

Some ethnic groups are more susceptible to certain diseases. I remember hearing about sickle cell anemia in high school biology. That is why I wonder if there is a genetic component to the coronavirus. I am pasting this about sickle cell anemia as an example of how a disease can target certain ethnicities.


Sickle cell disease is more common in certain ethnic groups, including: People of African descent, including African-Americans (among whom 1 in 12 carries a sickle cell gene) Hispanic-Americans from Central and South America. People of Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, and Mediterranean descent.
Treatments: Hematopoietic stem cell transplantation
Symptoms: Pain; Infection
Sickle Cell Disease - American Society of Hematology

https://www.hematology.org › Patients › Anemia › Sickle-Cell

summerthyme said:

Er... they state the fatality rate as of Jan 22 was 15 percent, not 35%. Rather large difference! Still very high for a disease with the r0 value it displays. <snip>
Summerthyme

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The corona virus may only kill 15% or whatever number it lands on, but the panic and everything associated with having an economy grind to a complete stop will kill many more, probably more than the virus itself especially in China.

The government (if they are indeed doing a population reduction) can control how many and who lives, thereby shaping the future of China.

Melodi said:

I have started another thread for this, can we please, please, please take this type of discussion over there? Not only is it distracting here but comments are likely to get lost on this large a thread.

DISASTER - The Germ-Bio Warfare-Epidemics in History Thread

OK, gang, I'm starting this here because it is just getting too distracting on the main Kung-Flu thread and honestly the arguments and/or information can go on forever on these topics. It is up to the mods if they want to enforce putting this stuff on a separate thread or not, but I thought as...

xf.timebomb2000.com

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Fair enough and thank you. I've complained about thread drift, I have no wish to be a hypocrite.

Optimus Prime said:

Best friends eldest daughter is an Epidemiologist/Bio-Statistician for the Great State of TEXAS. He queried her on her/colleagues thoughts on the matter....
"Appears to not have high mortality rate but sure is spreading quick."
"When new virus pops up out of nowhere it likely originated as a virus in an animal and evolved."
"Agree with 2.7% mortality rate, not bad UNLESS I AM ONE OF THE 2.7%"

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I note the tiny print on "THANK GAWD it's someone else's issue now..."

TheSearcher said:

I would like to explore it just a little further on this thread. I think there are real implications that are cogent to the discussion. If you'll allow me to get to a proper keyboard, I can express myself better than poking at my phone.

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I would like to see it explored but not on this thread. Seems like a good choice for another thread

KFhunter said:

The corona virus may only kill 15% or whatever number it lands on, but the panic and everything associated with having an economy grind to a complete stop will kill many more, probably more than the virus itself especially in China.

The government (if they are indeed doing a population reduction) can control how many and who lives, thereby shaping the future of China.

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Oh, believe me, I'm not minimizing this! But we won't be helping the panic by throwing out bogus, alarming numbers.

Summerthyme

raven said:

I would like to see it explored but not on this thread. Seems like a good choice for another thread

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Stefan Moritz‏ @StefaMoritz 7h7 hours ago

An interesting detail of the German case of #2019nCoV. The suspected index person who transmitted the virus to the German patient has left #Germany asymptomatic. she got symptoms on her flight back home. it seems that patients are infectious before getting symptomatic

Ragnarok said:

Why would the Chinese make a bioweapon that targets only the Chinese?

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Per the HarperCollinsPublishers website:

"When the SARS virus broke out in China in January 2003, Karl Taro Greenfeld was the editor of Time Asia in Hong Kong, just a few miles from the epicenter of the outbreak."

Greenfeld wrote a book about his experiences. He posits a hypothetical that neither I nor the individual he was interviewing buy into, but it provides a fair amount of fuel for the Woo Fire.

From Karl Taro Greenfeld, China Syndrome: The True Story of the 21st Century's First Great Epidemic. NY: HarperCollins, 2006, p. 400:

"Say the Chinese got a new virus first, and it proves as fatal as smallpox when introduced into a new gene pool. Hundreds of millions die in a horrible repeat of the Black Death. Won't the surviving, immune Chinese then have an evolutionary advantage over the rest of the world? Couldn't a virus be, in effect, a terrible first step toward world domination?"

KFhunter said:

The corona virus may only kill 15% or whatever number it lands on, but the panic and everything associated with having an economy grind to a complete stop will kill many more, probably more than the virus itself especially in China.

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It may kill 15% with medical care. We don't know what percentage die of the people who hide at home when they get sick. There are stories out of China of dead in apartments, but we are data-free on that question.

naturallysweet said:

there is one human species. Race does not mean species. We are more genetically different by race, than dogs are with wolves or polar bears are with black bears.

IF gene targeted viruses are even possible, they would be targeting Denison genes. Which make up to 10% of some Asian populatiome and are officially classified as a different species.

I personally prefer to use race. But use breeds instead if you must. But please, don't virtue signal by pretending human biodiversity doesn't exist and we are all a homogenous , sexless blob. I can't take anyone seriously that goes down the sjw religion lies.

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Don't get stuck on stupid "it" phrases. I was not "virtue signaling." I leave that to the "Sky Screamers" and the holier than thou types.

I said race and I meant race. There are genetically minor differences in humans that are socially normed into being called different races. However, if you pull cells and strands of DNA the differences between humans is nearly microscopic in size (pun intended).

Rather than race, anthropologists say a more accurate way to distinguish differences in populations of people are clines. A cline is a gradation in one or more characteristics within a species, especially between different populations. The concept of clines helps to explain that races as biological categories are not valid.

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and another science and social quote of how defining race is misused

Race and genetics form their own double helix, twisting together through history. The Nazis, as everyone knows, justified the death camps on the grounds that Jews and Gypsies were genetically inferior—but what is less known is that the Nazis took their cue from eugenics legislation passed in the United States. Here, race is defined primarily by skin color. Since that's a genetic trait, the logic goes, race itself must be genetic, and there must be differences that are more than skin deep.

But that's not what modern genetics reveals. Quite the contrary, it shows that race is truly skin deep. Indeed, genetics undermines the whole concept that humanity is composed of ''races''—pure and static groups that are significantly different from one another. Genetics has proven otherwise by tracing human ancestry, as it is inscribed on DNA.

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I am not beating anyone up here. However, for the purposes of the discussion occurring that this corona virus is weaponized against Asians, I think the science needs to be emphasized more than eugenic hysteria.

CaryC said:

Absolutely serious!

For there to be different races, then there has to be different points of origin. Such has been proven scientifically, not Biblically, (ETA: However the Bible does support that, but you don't have to use the Bible for this) through mitochondrial DNA descended from the same woman. Hence one race.

Meaning blacks did not come from monkey's, Japanese from Giraffes, well maybe the wrestlers came from hippo's, etc.

When you look around you, like at an airport, and see people with different skin colors, eye color, hair color, eye design (like Japanese) hair design (straight, curly). You should understand that those are by products of DNA in the same race. Meaning when a group of people over 1000 of years live in a specific locale, and essentially inbreed, they will breed out non dominate strains of DNA.

While essential strands of DNA like 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 eyes, one mouth, and the X and Y Chromosome given by the father to produce a male or female are all the same in all flavors of the one race.

If this sounds strange to you, maybe you should consider taking up dog breeding. Same principal.

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You are using Race as a synonym for species, I am using Race as a synonym for breed. No argument on species from me. But my Pitbull is not the same animal as a Yorkie or a Great Dane for that matter.
I will give an update from Houston Hobie on airport status, but I will not derail this thread with more semantic arguments about race or breed.

AS-Source News‏ @ASBreakingNews 3m3 minutes ago

#CoronaVirus- #CANADA: 3 cases of coronavirus under investigation in #Quebec

Malaysia:

vector7 said:

There have been rumors researchers may have been toying around with the lid to that container (ethnic bio-weapons).

Weaponizing Biotech: How China's Military Is Preparing for a 'New Domain of Warfare'

Under Beijing's civil-military fusion strategy, the PLA is sponsoring research on gene editing, human performance enhancement, and more.

www.defenseone.com

What Will China Do With Your DNA?

Editor’s Note: In Parts I and II, Steven Mosher wrote about the Chinese Communist Party’s program to ...

www.theepochtimes.com

Bio-warfare experts question why Canada was sending lethal viruses to China

'I think the Chinese activities … are highly suspicious,' one expert said, after it was revealed a Winnipeg lab sent samples of Ebola and henipavirus to China

nationalpost.com

World must prepare for biological weapons that target ethnic groups based on genetics, says Cambridge University

Biological weapons could be built which target individuals in a specific ethnic group based on their DNA, a report by the University of Cambridge has warned.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Actions have consequences:

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Weaponizing Biotech: How China’s Military Is Preparing for a ‘New Domain of Warfare’

• By Elsa B. Kania Adjunct Fellow, CNAS Read bio
• Wilson VornDick Read bio

August 14, 2019

Under Beijing's civil-military fusion strategy, the PLA is sponsoring research on gene editing, human performance enhancement, and more.

We may be on the verge of a brave new world indeed. Today’s advances in biotechnology and genetic engineering have exciting applications in medicine — yet also alarming implications, including for military affairs. China’s national strategy of military-civil fusion (军民融合) has highlighted biology as a priority, and the People’s Liberation Army could be at the forefront of expanding and exploiting this knowledge.

The PLA’s keen interest is reflected in strategic writings and research that argue that advances in biology are contributing to changing the form or character (形态) of conflict. For example:

• In 2010’s War for Biological Dominance (制生权战争), Guo Jiwei (郭继卫), a professor with the Third Military Medical University, emphasizes the impact of biology on future warfare.

• In 2015, then-president of the Academy of Military Medical Sciences He Fuchu (贺福初) argued that biotechnology will become the new “strategic commanding heights” of national defense, from biomaterials to “brain control” weapons. Maj. Gen. He has since become the vice president of the Academy of Military Sciences, which leads China’s military science enterprise.

• Biology is among seven “new domains of warfare” discussed in a 2017 book by Zhang Shibo (张仕波), a retired general and former president of the National Defense University, who concludes: “Modern biotechnology development is gradually showing strong signs characteristic of an offensive capability,” including the possibility that “specific ethnic genetic attacks” (特定种族基因攻击) could be employed.

• The 2017 edition of Science of Military Strategy (战略学), a textbook published by the PLA’s National Defense University that is considered to be relatively authoritative, debuted a section about biology as a domain of military struggle, similarly mentioning the potential for new kinds of biological warfare to include “specific ethnic genetic attacks.”

These are just a few examples of an extensive and evolving literature by Chinese military scholars and scientists who are exploring new directions in military innovation.

Following these lines of thinking, the PLA is pursuing military applications for biology and looking into promising intersections with other disciplines, including brain science, supercomputing, and artificial intelligence. Since 2016, the Central Military Commission has funded projects on military brain science, advanced biomimetic systems, biological and biomimetic materials, human performance enhancement, and “new concept” biotechnology.

Gene Editing

Meanwhile, China has been leading the world in the number of trials of the CRISPR gene-editing technology in humans.

Over a dozen clinical trials are known to have been undertaken, and some of these activities have provoked global controversy. It’s not clear whether Chinese scientist He Jiankui, may have received approval or even funding from the government for editing embryos that became the world’s first genetically modified humans. The news provoked serious concerns and backlash around the world and in China, where new legislation has been introduced to increase oversight over such research. However, there are reasons to be skeptical that China will overcome its history and track record of activities that are at best ethically questionable, or at worst cruel and unusual, in healthcare and medical sciences.

But it is striking how many of China’s CRISPR trials are taking place at the PLA General Hospital, including to fight cancer. Indeed, the PLA’s medical institutions have emerged as major centers for research in gene editing and other new frontiers of military medicine and biotechnology. The PLA’s Academy of Military Medical Sciences, or AMMS, which China touts as its “cradle of training for military medical talent,” was recently placed directly under the purview of the Academy of Military Science, which itself has been transformed to concentrate on scientific and technological innovation. This change could indicate a closer integration of medical science with military research.

In 2016, an AMMS doctoral researcher published a dissertation, “Research on the Evaluation of Human Performance Enhancement Technology,” which characterized CRISPR-Cas as one of three primary technologies that might boost troops’ combat effectiveness. The supporting research looked at the effectiveness of the drug Modafinil, which has applications in cognitive enhancement; and at transcranial magnetic stimulation, a type of brain stimulation, while also contending that the “great potential” of CRISPR-Cas as a “military deterrence technology in which China should “grasp the initiative” in development.

AI + Biotech

The intersection of biotechnology and artificial intelligence promises unique synergies. The vastness of the human genome — among the biggest of big data — all but requires AI and machine learning to point the way for CRISPR-related advances in therapeutics or enhancement.

In 2016, the potential strategic value of genetic information led the Chinese government to launch the National Genebank (国家基因库), which intends to become the world’s largest repository of such data. It aims to “develop and utilize China’s valuable genetic resources, safeguard national security in bioinformatics (生物信息学), and enhance China’s capability to seize the strategic commanding heights” in the domain of biotechnology.

The effort is administered by BGI, formerly known as Beijing Genomics Inc., which is Beijing’s de facto national champion in the field. BGI has established an edge in cheap gene sequencing, concentrating on amassing massive amounts of data from a diverse array of sources. The company has a global presence, including laboratories in California and Australia.

U.S. policymakers have been concerned, if not troubled, by the company’s access to the genetic information of Americans. BGI has been pursuing a range of partnerships, including with the University of California and with the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia on human genome sequencing. BGI’s research and partnerships in Xinjiang also raise questions about its linkage to human rights abuses, including the forced collection of genetic information from Uighurs in Xinjiang.

There also appear to be links between BGI’s research and military research activities, particularly with the PLA’s National University of Defense Technology. BGI’s bioinformatics research has used Tianhe supercomputers to process genetic information for biomedical applications, while BGI and NUDT researchers have collaborated on several publications, including the design of tools for the use of CRISPR.

Biotech’s Expansive Frontier

It will be increasingly important to keep tabs on the Chinese military’s interest in biology as an emerging domain of warfare, guided by strategists who talk about potential “genetic weapons” and the possibility of a “bloodless victory.”

Although the use of CRISPR to edit genes remains novel and nascent, these tools and techniques are rapidly advancing, and what is within the realm of the possible for military applications may continue to shift as well. In the process, the lack of transparency and uncertainty of ethical considerations in China’s research initiatives raise the risks of technological surprise.

northern watch said:

Libby Cunningham‏ @LibSCunningham 2m2 minutes ago

#Breaking - Butler County General Health investigating two possible cases of Coronavirus in Miami University students who just returned from China.

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This is going to be interesting. Florida can get downright draconian when they view that someone needs to be quarantined. I forget the exact case but they've locked up people who refuse to take their TB meds correctly. They've taken kids away from parents who refuse to get vaccines. Heck they have red flag laws for "just in case." Can you imagine what they'll do with this?

I was around for the Sars outbreak and the Ebola outbreak This has nothing that FEELS the same about this. We're not getting any reassurance from any government agency . I get the feeling that they're just doing feel good things to say they're doing something. Because they already know there's nothing that they can do to stop this virus and that being said I'm preparing accordingly.

Lu Chen‏ @luchenhist 28m28 minutes ago

Still lots of research to do on #nCoV2019: where the virus from? How it appeared in the seafood market? Are there any other places have been contaminated? How long for anti-virus treatment & can it reduce the fatality rate? Whether recovered cases are still contagious? (5/x)

northern watch said:

AS-Source News‏ @ASBreakingNews 1m1 minute ago

BREAKING: #CoronaVirus- AFRICA- #Kenya - first suspected case.

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Oh boy! Here we go.

Kathy in FL said:

The question people need to ask themselves is how will they be viewed by others at TB2K after this thread goes dormant. And just to not be viewed as hypocritical, I am talking about all posters, not just a few extreme views on either end of the spectrum.

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Heh..the day I care about what others on TB2K think about me that is the last day I’m here. You let others dictate your viewpoints then your not being honest with yourself let alone others. Nobody with any emergency response or mitigating perception can afford to roll over and fall asleep over the potential ramifications about a possible developing global pandemic. Those are things history books are written about afterwards and being on the wrong side of response to it can be deadly.

Problem is that none of us know at this time if it’s going to be relatively minor and a blip on the overall scheme of things or something that is biblical. This is new, information is sketchy and very few of us are going to trust officialdom to be straight with us. We prepare so we don’t need to panic and run around wildly. This is just another subset of a preparedness lifestyle. If it passes leaving us relatively unscathed we breath a sigh of relief and thank God it wasn’t as bad as it could of been. If not then we are ready and meet it head on like any other potential threat.

Kathy in FL said:

This is going to be interesting. Florida can get downright draconian when they view that someone needs to be quarantined. I forget the exact case but they've locked up people who refuse to take their TB meds correctly. They've taken kids away from parents who refuse to get vaccines. Heck they have red flag laws for "just in case." Can you imagine what they'll do with this?

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it is Miami Ohio

EMICT said:

There will probably be 35% to 40% of the aforementioned group that will not show up for work. I posted the original to see what the groups expectation was of ‘first responders’. The workforce has changed since 9/11 and there is not near the numbers of duty bound individuals that existed at that time. I saw hints of that ‘me and mine’ attitude in 2014 during the Ebola scare. We had a 25 to 30 percent drop out rate for those who had initially volunteered for our bio response team, and were very underwhelmed with the numbers who initially volunteered for the team. Out of a workforce of 5000, we received 28 volunteers and retained 16. I don’t expect any better numbers this time around.

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I worked in a semi-larger (140+ beds) hospital in AZ for 6+ years. We had a case of active TB that stayed with us for months who never did test negative. Didn't help that there were breaks in his medication because no one was watching when order renewals were called for, but I digress.

One night out of a nursing staff of 7 (8?) on the floor every single nurse made excuses for not taking him. In the end I was the one who didn't refuse and I am bearded. The excuses were pathetic in almost every case. "I have a cold." "I'm not sure my fit test was correctly done." Etc. etc. He was in a reverse airflow room, etc, required pretty much hotel care only (meds, meals, TV remote and fluffing).

The sense of responsibility in that place was bordering on dismal. The younger the generation the worse it was. Call-ins were de rigeur just because people didn't feel like working. Toss in a situation like this and the 35-40% absentee rate might even seem mild in some instances.

RR

Well.............. I don't know where this comes from but they sure do look Chinese.

Translation:

Sick #coronavirus trying to leave quarantine room is prevented

"FLUFFING".....?????

YEAH, ah .....nuh uh ..not me.

What hotels are you going to that have professional "fluffers"?

desertvet2 said:

"FLUFFING".....?????

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I'm guessing pillows.

Then he calls the police.



View: https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1222182544197681153

My digging has led me to this. The first link has good links including the ones below. The last one get pretty technical.

View: https://twitter.com/GuoLibrary/status/1221580367062237185

....some levity for the moment....

Don't be offended...it should be funny,. Unless you get yours online....

Rob Ferguson‏Verified account @robferguson1 57s57 seconds ago

BREAKING: Toronto public health setting up hotline for passengers of China Southern Airlines flight CZ311 arriving Toronto from Guangzhou last Wednesday if they have concerns about their health. This plane carried the man now confirmed as having Wuhan #coronavirus.

Info on the Ohio cases:

2 possible coronavirus cases reported at Miami University
By

• Rick McCrabb, Staff Writer
• Butler County and Miami University officials are investigating two possible cases of coronavirus at Miami.
• Miami officials informed the Butler County General Health District about the possible cases on Tuesday.
  The people had recently traveled to and returned from China, officials said. They are in isolation and “not severely ill,” officials said in a news release. Officials from Miami and
• Samples from their tests were sent to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday.
  Officials said that, unless someone has recently traveled from China or been near someone ill with the new virus, their risk is low.
  In an email to the Miami community, officials said a student went to the Student Health Services with “very mild symptoms” on Monday after recently traveling to China. The student “met the criteria for 2019-Coronavirus testing,” and officials expect results from the CDC “in the coming days.”
• The student and his traveling companion are being isolated in their residence that is away from campus awaiting the test results, the email said.
  About a dozen Miami University Regional campus students in Hamilton and Middletown list their residence near the area in Wuhan City, Hubei Province, China where the outbreak began in December, according to school officials. It’s unclear how many of those students returned home for winter break and how many remained in the U.S.
• 
  Butler County and Miami University officials are investigating two possible cases of coronavirus at Miami.
  
  Miami officials informed the Butler County General Health District about the possible cases on Tuesday.
  The people had recently traveled to and returned from China, officials said. They are in isolation and “not severely ill,” officials said in a news release. Officials from Miami and
  READ MORE: US, others prepare evacuations as virus spreads from China
  Samples from their tests were sent to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday.
  Officials said that, unless someone has recently traveled from China or been near someone ill with the new virus, their risk is low.
  In an email to the Miami community, officials said a student went to the Student Health Services with “very mild symptoms” on Monday after recently traveling to China. The student “met the criteria for 2019-Coronavirus testing,” and officials expect results from the CDC “in the coming days.”
  READ MORE: Coronavirus: 4 things you need to know
  
  The student and his traveling companion are being isolated in their residence that is away from campus awaiting the test results, the email said.
  About a dozen Miami University Regional campus students in Hamilton and Middletown list their residence near the area in Wuhan City, Hubei Province, China where the outbreak began in December, according to school officials. It’s unclear how many of those students returned home for winter break and how many remained in the U.S.
  Officials are asking those who traveled to China and are experiencing symptoms to contact their doctor before traveling to the doctor’s office. Miami students experiencing the same are asked to contact Student Health Services at 513-529-3000 before seeking care.
  The Butler County General Health District has produced a fact sheet about the virus.
  “This is what public health does and why we train,” Jennifer Bailer, health commissioner for the Butler County General Health District, said in a news release. “Our staff, officials at Miami University and the Ohio Department of Health are taking every precaution to keep the community safe.
  “The same precautions that protect against catching and spreading the flu are likely to be helpful for this respiratory virus: Wash your hands regularly, avoid touching your nose and eyes, cover your mouth when you cough and sneeze and don’t go to work if ill. Displaying compassion to all people will be vital as the situation evolves.”
  

Telescope Steve said:

2019 #NovalCoronavirus is lab-made by the #Chinese #military institutes. It is impossible to evolve naturally.

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There may be no conceptual path by which it came about through natural selection. But now that it's here, it evolves just like any other virus.

Abery said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't even think they're testing anyone with symptoms who hasn't travelled to China or had close contact with someone who has. Since we're in the early stages of this, people are going to suspect they have the regular flu if that's their criteria for testing.

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That's the blind spot.

It is.

Why is ANY plane still coming from/going to China??