CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
My guess(es) as to the reasons for spreading the returning patients with the virus out to different locations: One, no one hospital has sufficient quarantine facilities to hold all of them. Two, I assume that they are going to be studied for future reference, and tested; and the more different sets of eyes and different minds attacking the problem, the greater chance of finding the best treatments.
But it does seem like a good way to spread the virus all over the place if their containment procedures fail at any point.
Kathleen

That makes a lot of sense. I think if they are doing it to have different teams do their own assessments so they can compare data and brainstorm off of each other's approaches and ideas, that is a really smart approach.

HD
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Marthanoir, it's not funny at all. Dobbin "writes" in a language that doesn't require that we stop and translate in order to make sense of it. If every other word he put down was a neigh or a snort, there might be just as many objections to his manner as there lately are to that of OA.

I read Old Archer-speak lightning fast. Not a problem for me at all and I usually either agree with it or he makes me laugh and after the last few years I've had, boy is that a welcome thing.

Nobody gets bent out of shape about reading some 2,000 year old book that has been translated a bazillion times even though most of the people reading have no idea where most of the places are and mispronounce most of the archaic words.

If it is like a treasure that you have to work to discover, then maybe OA has his reasons. This is a man who is locked in an old fart's home and all he has is his Wisdom. He can pass it out howsomever he wishes, if at all. I am lucky to read every silver word. Most of you have relative youth, mobility, and health. How would you like to face a stroke and coronavirus being managed by a bunch of inept commie wannabes in his shape? I wouldn't. This guy is braver than I'll ever be and I ain't a chicken. Some of ya'll make me sick.
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
On the the container shipments--would it also affect container ships of oil used in a special manufacturing of cow feed? A tree that grows in Malaysia is used to produce an oil that is used in milk production. A friend of my husbands job has been told they will not be getting any of this oil for at least 3 weeks and they have all been told no work right now.


I'm sorry but I really don't know...

I think that the biggest issue, if the factory is open and running, is getting to the ports. However, I don't know if ships are moving or not even if you do get your stuff to port. I am guessing that you should plan on anything coming from China might be delayed and if not then be glad.
 

Zahra

Veteran Member
Why 1 in biocontainment. Thats the Ebola ward, BSL4, I haven't heard of any others being put into BSL4 anywhere. Everything I've read has just been quarantine. WTF?

Yes that jumped out to me too.

Ok, deep breath. Events such as this are why we prepare. We're the sort of people who gather intelligence and then develop strategies in order to stay ahead of the curve. Every member on this site is analytical and skilled in various aspects of managing and coping through a plethora of disaster management scenarios.

Let's face the facts, this pandemic is on the loose and going to burn through the population of hosts until a vaccine's ready. We ALL know what we need to do, and we know how to be helpful to others in case it causes societal disruptions. Now it's just a matter of continuing to monitor & assess the risk level for our locales & sharing best strategies together in order to overcome whatever hurdles come our way.

I'm not saying any of us want something like this, but, this sort of thing is exactly in our wheelhouse.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
(fair use applies)

Coronavirus fears grip Britain as officials reveal nearly 1,500 people were tested for the deadly infection in one day

By Stephen Matthews Health Editor For Mailonline and Sam Blanchard Senior Health Reporter For Mailonline
Published: 11:03 EST, 17 February 2020 | Updated: 12:08 EST, 17 February 2020

  • None of the 1,392 newly tested patients in the UK were positive for SARS-CoV-2
  • But the extraordinary figure, the highest daily toll, reflects growing public fears
  • More than 71,000 people have now caught the virus, and almost 1,800 have died
Coronavirus fears have gripped Britain with officials carrying out tests for the killer virus on 1,400 more people across the home nations.

None tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 but the extraordinary figure – the highest in a day so far – reflects growing public anxiety.

More than 4,500 people have now been tested in the UK. Only nine patients have been diagnosed with the never-before-seen virus on British soil.

Health officials fear more cases will crop up, with leading scientists warning hopes of stopping a outbreak are 'fading by the day'.

More than 71,000 people have now caught the virus, including nine in the UK. And nearly 1,800 across the world have died.

Department of Health figures show 4,501 have been tested – up from the 3,109 that had been swabbed for the virus yesterday.

Public Health England earlier this month announced thousands of patients across the UK would be tested for coronavirus every day.

Precautions were taken up a notch after a third British person – the 'super-spreader' Steve Walsh – tested positive on February 6.

Twelve laboratories in the UK now have the capacity to analyse swabs taken from suspected patients, up from just one in the early days of the outbreak.

All but one of the nine UK patients who tested positive for the coronavirus were discharged from hospital on Saturday following two negative tests, NHS England said.

The only patient still in hospital is the ninth case – a Chinese woman who flew into London last weekend and took an Uber to A&E at Lewisham Hospital.

She was taken to St Thomas' Hospital in London, where she is thought to still be receiving treatment. It is unclear when she will be released.

Steve Walsh, the Brighton coronavirus 'super-spreader' who accidentally infected 11 people staying in the same French ski chalet, was the first patient in Britain to be released from hospital.

The 53-year-old scout leader left the isolation unit at St Thomas' Hospital in London on February 12. He picked up the deadly disease at a Singapore business conference last month and inadvertently spread it on his 6,736-mile journey home to Hove via the Alps.

Discussing the release of the eight patients, Health Secretary Matt Hancock said he was 'pleased' they were successfully treated and discharged from hospital.

It comes after Sir Richard Branson last night claimed he is in talks with the Government about rescuing 74 Britons stuck on board a cruise ship plagued by coronavirus.

A couple trapped onboard The Diamond Princess last Friday begged the billionaire to help and asked how much it would cost to repatriate the group.

Sir Richard last night revealed his airline Virgin Atlantic was 'in discussions' with UK officials over whether it could help the stranded Brits.

Ministers are considering 'all options' to repatriate the Brits on board the ship, which has been docked off the coast of Yokohama since February 3.

But pressure is mounting on Number 10 to take action, with furious Brits quarantined on board saying they feel abandoned and 'forgotten'.

One passenger even told Prime Minister Boris Johnson it was 'about time' he stepped in. The US has already evacuated 340 citizens on two cargo planes.

Sir Richard was asked on Twitter to help David and Sally Abel, the couple on board the Diamond Princess who appealed for his help on Valentine's Day.

He replied: 'Virgin Atlantic does not fly to Japan, but we are in discussions with the UK government and seeing if there is anything we can do to help.'

The Foreign Office, which handled the three British evacuation flights out of Wuhan, has yet to give an official update on the situation.

Officials are thought to be considering bringing the holidaymakers home or sending them into a 14-day quarantine on the Japanese mainland.

Last week, Mr Abel, from Daventry in Northamptonshire, appealed to Sir Richard to charter a special plane to rescue British nationals from the ship.

Mr Abel made the appeal during a Facebook live video, in which the 'staunch Tory' admitted he had 'no confidence' in Mr Johnson.

He said: 'When he [Mr Johnson] just says "keep calm, don't panic" - I'd like to see you in this situation, mate. I really would.'

In a video posted on Valentine's Day, Mr Abel added: 'So, Richard Branson, I want to ask you a question, pal.

'If you and your family were in this situation, what would you do? And please don't say 'chill out, stay calm', that's not what we want to hear.

'I'm asking, what would it cost to hire one of your smaller planes, put all the Brits onboard, no flight attendants, packaged food?

'Take us to Brize Norton, take us straight into the medical facility and let us do our quarantine there by people who can speak our language.'

'I'm serious, Richard Branson, absolutely serious. I think he is the man, he's not afraid to speak his mind. He's the guy who could resolve this for the Brits.'

The British Government was accused of 'dragging its feet' for its delay in confirming details of the first evacuation flight, which went ahead on January 31.

Government sources blamed Beijing for holding up efforts to repatriate 200 expats stuck in the deserted Chinese city.

This was despite the US and Japan launching rescue missions before officials had even confirmed its first of three flights.

There were around 3,700 people on the Diamond Princess when it sailed into Japan more than two weeks ago.

But more than one in 10 of them have since been diagnosed with the coronavirus, which is officially known as SARS-CoV-2.

The virus appears to have been spreading on board despite passengers being told to stay in their cabins.

It is spread by coughs, sneezes and potentially even through inhaling the breath of someone who has the illness.

A confined environment like a cruise ship, where people spend weeks at a time in close quarters with one another, could be a hotbed for such an illness to spread.

In total, 519 cases of coronavirus have been diagnosed in Japan – 454 of these have been among passengers of the Diamond Princess.

Anyone confirmed to have the illness has been taken to a hospital on the Japanese mainland. So far, none of the patients have died of the infection.

The US yesterday took 340 of its citizens to Travis Air Force Base near Sacramento, California, and Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland in Texas.

And a Holiday Inn near Heathrow airport has been closed for public bookings and will become a coronavirus quarantine centre, it emerged today.

The Department of Health today confirmed the £80-a-night ($105) hotel is block-booked 'for as long as it is needed' – until at least March.

Officials have confirmed the hotel will be used as a quarantine zone for any travellers to Heathrow who have tell-tale coronavirus symptoms.

It could also be used for Britons who are evacuated back to the UK from overseas, such as those on the quarantined Diamond Princess cruise ship.

The Government has already used a hotel in Milton Keynes as an isolation centre for 105 expats rescued from the deserted Chinese city of Wuhan.

An NHS accommodation block at Arrowe Park Hospital on the Wirral was the only other designated zone for suspected SARS-CoV-2 patients.

More than 71,000 people have now caught the virus, including nine in the UK – one of whom is still in hospital. Nearly 1,800 across the world have died.
 

rondaben

Veteran Member
When you say "altered", I am assuming you mean man stepped in and screwed with it...

If so, what other option is there besides intentional or accidental release?

intentional but not by China was what i was referring to. yes, at this point i suspect it is engineered. the likelihood of a random zoonotic mutation occurring that then has sustained H2H transmission and dramatically different pathology than the closest other coronavirus is improbable.

this is probably more informed by my faith than anything at the moment since the science is still questionable.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
They hashed this out on KTSA radio back on the 13th. There were two opinions presented. One was that patients coming in to San Antonio was no big deal, you have to put them somewhere and SA has good doctors and support. The other opinion which I share, says that is akin to fouling your own nest. Most of the military medical personnel train in SA. All the USAF troops go to Basic at Lackland. This is not a good idea. We need the med teams and a place to train more of them plague-free. I have been steamed about this for days. And to come in the middle of the night? Not good optics, people.

It may have changed since I was in but the medical corps trained with finance at Sheppard, AFB near Wichita Falls, TX.

Lackland trained BMT, OTS, Security Services and Police/K-9 Ops, Pararescue and Combat Controllers...
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Concerns apparently didn't derail Japan's annual Naked Festival, Hadaka Matsuri, celebrated this past Saturday. Video might be from last year--the only masks I see aren't on faces. Lots of folks jammed together, possibly fueled by alcohol. What could go wrong?


They are all dudes!

What is wrong with the Japanese?!?!
 

Zahra

Veteran Member
It may have changed since I was in but the medical corps trained with finance at Sheppard, AFB near Wichita Falls, TX.

Lackland trained BMT, OTS, Security Services and Police/K-9 Ops, Pararescue and Combat Controllers...

I don't know when you were active duty, but I graduated from officer's basic at the Academy of Health Sciences at Ft Sam Houston -- in San Antonio.

If they absolutely have to use the SA area I'd throw up mobile field hospitals at Camp Bullis!
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
and all is quiet in:

Indonesia?
Africa?
India?

Why? How?
These are HUGE populations and have marginal at best hygiene and med care

I know Indonesia as a country is lying. No other way to put it. There are cases in that country that simply aren't being reported. That country is on edge and the population are emptying the stores of homeopathic meds.
 

rlm1966

Veteran Member
I read Old Archer-speak lightning fast. Not a problem for me at all and I usually either agree with it or he makes me laugh and after the last few years I've had, boy is that a welcome thing.

Nobody gets bent out of shape about reading some 2,000 year old book that has been translated a bazillion times even though most of the people reading have no idea where most of the places are and mispronounce most of the archaic words.

If it is like a treasure that you have to work to discover, then maybe OA has his reasons. This is a man who is locked in an old fart's home and all he has is his Wisdom. He can pass it out howsomever he wishes, if at all. I am lucky to read every silver word. Most of you have relative youth, mobility, and health. How would you like to face a stroke and coronavirus being managed by a bunch of inept commie wannabes in his shape? I wouldn't. This guy is braver than I'll ever be and I ain't a chicken. Some of ya'll make me sick.
Whether it makes you sick or not consider how many comments have been made about how disruptive that style of writing is to a thread that is on a very serious topic. I don't begrudge the man for his thoughts, but the way they are crafted distracts from the message as you are trying to figure out what he is saying. I don't question his bravery or even his wisdom but the delivery is distracting and I now find myself skipping over those post.

What is funnier though is that I have seen people crucified and ridiculed for far less (spelling, use of correct word, ideas, etc) on this board without anyone defending them so I guess it is a matter of some are more equal than others.

Anyway it doesn't really matter as I now will just skip the post once the country bumkin stereo type comes in to play and move on to the next post.
 

library lady

Veteran Member
Didn't see this posted before, but I may have missed it. This is counter to what Senator Cotton believes.

Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing

An important new study of genomics of SARS-Cov-2 (virus that causes #COVID19)... notably the authors point out “strong evidence” that the virus “is not the product of genetic engineering”. (Special thanks to @pathogenomenick for vetting study is legit) http://virological.org/t/the-proximal
 

Jubilee on Earth

Veteran Member
So here’s my question. These American companies that have factories in China. Do they have transparency/knowledge from an HR standpoint on the status of their workers? Like would they know if specific individuals are now deceased? I keep reading articles that there is a lack of workers because of quarantine, but one can’t help but to wonder if there’s a lack of workers because the death toll is much higher than what the CCP/Chinese government are claiming?
 

Shooter

Veteran Member
And, you would think, that the people attending a show like that would be a little more informed that the average guy on the street... Wow...
from the people that I know personally. most already have what they need. many walking by, might have thought, "oh he has a box of 20 masks, HOPE he has more for himself" around here food preps are the norm, being snowed in for a week or more happens pretty regular.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
intentional but not by China was what i was referring to. yes, at this point i suspect it is engineered. the likelihood of a random zoonotic mutation occurring that then has sustained H2H transmission and dramatically different pathology than the closest other coronavirus is improbable.

this is probably more informed by my faith than anything at the moment since the science is still questionable.

Thanks for answering twice!

That is good bedside manner...

I was just coming to edit my question because I saw Hfcomms asked the same one I did and you answered about 3 pages ago but you answered again before I could get here...

That is the problem with this thread is information is coming in so fast, it is impossibe to keep up!
 
Last edited:

SusieSunshine

Veteran Member
Per CDC website - only 467 tests total in the last month. 69 in the last week. That just doesn't pass my sniff test. Either they are withholding test kits because they are not accurate, or they are not disclosing accurate numbers.
I have no faith in the "test". My husband had the flu in December. The test came back negative. ER staff told us 50-75% of the tests are WRONG! Staff said he had the flu.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I am watching the Brits pretty carefully, despite what many folks here may think, they have a reasonably well-run health care system (both public and private) and they take pandemics seriously.

When we first married 25 years ago (in the UK) there was an outbreak of Plague (Yersinia Pestis) in India and within 24 hours the UK was taking temperatures and examining everyone on flights coming out of the airport.

Of course, that one is fixable with treatment, so there was also something they could do if they isolated someone who turned out to be ill.

But the Brits right now have several rather serious cases of exposure and possible mass transmission (the carrier at the Bus Conference with hundreds of people, the Uber Lady and the group infected in France that came home), and if they can manage to control it and track people it will show it can be done.

Or if it turns out to be too late, and this simply gets into the general population then we will know that too.

It is also next door to Ireland, with tons of people (and goods) moving back and forth every day, so another reason to pay attention.

But honestly not only is the UK smaller than the US, but their health services also are a lot better organized and people are not afraid to go to the doctor and have to declare bankruptcy (though that could change quarantine times get too long).

In the US, millions of people avoid the doctor both because they can't possibly afford treatment (or a hospital) and they can't afford not to work as they have no sick leave or pay when they don't work (in many modern jobs).

This last has always concerned me and I've mentioned many times over my years on the forum that I was afraid it might take a serious epidemic to change the way the US handles basic health care, once even those lucky enough to have good health care (or are really wealthy) are shocked into realizing that epidemic diseases don't' care about your money or your lifestyle, they also won't stay put in poor or working-class communities but are happy to infect and kill any and all humans they can manage to infect.

If the UK can't get a handle on this one, I am sad to say this but I suspect the USA has an even lower chance of being able to keep it contained.
 

Jubilee on Earth

Veteran Member
Per CDC website - only 467 tests total in the last month. 69 in the last week. That just doesn't pass my sniff test. Either they are withholding test kits because they are not accurate, or they are not disclosing accurate numbers.

Yeah, did I just read that Britain has tested 4700 people?? So we’ve only tested 10% of what they’ve tested, yet we have a massively larger geographic area with multiple enclaves of Chinese as well as multiple entry points.

You’re darn right this is fishy.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
I doubt he's concerned but if he felt he was being watched/monitored then maybe...if there's really a way China gov can monitor all the billions of folks on phones.

He's a business man in Shanghai to answer another question asked.

They can and they do... Same way our intelligence agencies do it here.

They don't monitor every single person, they have computer scans for trigger words... Enough of the right verbiage in a conversation will merit a real person looking into what you are talking about and to whom you are sharing the info.
 
Last edited:

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
since they ship everything here in steel containers. I wonder if there is any gas or anything they could flood the inside of the containers with, and let them simmer the couple ofweeks it takes to get here, to kill any virus that may be on the stuff?

just kind of thinking out loud on this

Yes, if I remember correctly the technique you mention was used on the senate office buildings that got hit with anthrax after 9/11. They used hydrogen peroxide vapors pumped through the building. The testing was done on recently retired C-141 starlifter transport planes shortly before 9/11. Here is a link to the test program.

(PDF) Vaporous Hydrogen Peroxide (VHP) Decontamination of a C-141B Starlifter Aircraft: Validation of VHP and Modified VHP (mVHP) Fumigation Decontamination Process via VHP-Sensor, Biological Indicator, and HD Simulant in a Large-Scale Environment
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yeah... I just checked.

Medical Corps still trains at Sheppard AFB ( The Air Force School of Health Care Sciences ) in Wichita Falls... Not at Lackland.

I didn't say that med corps trains at Lackland; I said all of our USAF troops go through Basic there. San Antonio is a major training base for all sorts of civilian and military medical cadre. You are correct about Sheppard, but they start their Air Force career in San Antonio as a Basic Trainee.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Compare other years to this year since flu has been around and we have stats.

If this year isn't above norm, I wouldn't think they were doing that, OA.

This Flu Season Was Already Weird. It Is Getting Weirder.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I have no faith in the "test". My husband had the flu in December. The test came back negative. ER staff told us 50-75% of the tests are WRONG! Staff said he had the flu.

It was pretty easy to keep the numbers down...it worked for the Chinese. If you don't test people that are sick they can't be found positive for the virus. Too many sick people combined with a lack of testing kits/laboratory capacity and you are really able to downplay the number of people that have been confirmed with the virus. I'd imagine that since this is a 'novel' virus that the CDC is lacking in test kits as well. With the Chinese if they died and there was no test done on them they put down the cause of death as pneumonia or a number of other maladies although most people on the ground I'm sure understood that they were victims of the virus.
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Didn't see this posted before, but I may have missed it. This is counter to what Senator Cotton believes.

Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing

An important new study of genomics of SARS-Cov-2 (virus that causes #COVID19)... notably the authors point out “strong evidence” that the virus “is not the product of genetic engineering”. (Special thanks to @pathogenomenick for vetting study is legit) http://virological.org/t/the-proximal
Legit writers or not, a person could get very well paid for writing an article like that.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
I don't know when you were active duty, but I graduated from officer's basic at the Academy of Health Sciences at Ft Sam Houston -- in San Antonio.

If they absolutely have to use the SA area I'd throw up mobile field hospitals at Camp Bullis!

Ah... Army... Shows how narrow my view is.

I was only considering Air Force ( Because everyone knows, they ARE the only ones who matter :D )

I was AD JUN86- MAR90 with 3 years ( until 30DEC93 ) reserve duty...
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Not
Preach it, Sister! This is an anti-communist woman railing about what has happened to her family and her neighborhood and boy does she let it rip. She will wind up in the same boat as Quishi, but she is Standing Up the only way that is left to her.

Not QUITE As wound up as that incensed crematoria worker recorded in the phone conversation last night, but getting close.
 
On the the container shipments--would it also affect container ships of oil used in a special manufacturing of cow feed? A tree that grows in Malaysia is used to produce an oil that is used in milk production. A friend of my husbands job has been told they will not be getting any of this oil for at least 3 weeks and they have all been told no work right now.
What is that all about? Have heard something about an anti-farting additive for cattle feed, is this related.
Kinda like DEF?
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Thanks. That's taking it more seriously than I expected. Good job.

It was more than a curtain. Here are some pictures from the article I posted here:

View attachment 183012View attachment 183013
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Yeah, did I just read that Britain has tested 4700 people?? So we’ve only tested 10% of what they’ve tested, yet we have a massively larger geographic area with multiple enclaves of Chinese as well as multiple entry points.

You’re darn right this is fishy.
Sadly, there is yet another issue in the US though this time I honestly don't know if it is a factor in this case or not.

The issue is: MONEY

Who pays for the tests? Who pays for the Testing? Who pays the process the Tests? Who pays the doctors/nurses/labs to take and diagnose the tests?

You would think that wouldn't be a problem but having worked for both US State and The Federal Civil Service I rather suspect that it is.

The US, unlike the UK, has no basic Federal Health System and the old County/State Public Health systems set up in the wake of the 1918 flu (and later Polio, measles, etc) are now faint shadows of what they once were, often barely funded or functioning.

All of the "who pays for it" has to be worked out and quickly, otherwise, things just tend to sit there or "hurry up and wait."

I also suspect this is one reason the military support is being called on rather early, and as I mentioned may hundreds of pages ago on this thread, I already say the "money" issue Red Flashing Warning Sign with the quarantine arrangements.

The ones where they kept over-stating "the military bases will provide nothing to the evacuees except a place to stay, HHS will provide everything else."

I used to work in the HHS, it tends to be one of the most under-funded of the Federal Agencies and when I worked there it was common for us peons to buy our own pens and pencils because there was never enough money buy them or get the purchase approval from "H.Q."

I hope that's changed, but I haven't seen many signs that it has; Public Health is something that tends to be on the back burner until suddenly it isn't, but that's when everyone discovers how many funds have been diverted away to "more important" projects.

Again, I really really hope I'm wrong and that things have changed.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
I didn't say that med corps trains at Lackland; I said all of our USAF troops go through Basic there. San Antonio is a major training base for all sorts of civilian and military medical cadre. You are correct about Sheppard, but they start their Air Force career in San Antonio as a Basic Trainee.

Yes... I was misunderstanding the statement.

:sal:
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
So here’s my question. These American companies that have factories in China. Do they have transparency/knowledge from an HR standpoint on the status of their workers? Like would they know if specific individuals are now deceased? I keep reading articles that there is a lack of workers because of quarantine, but one can’t help but to wonder if there’s a lack of workers because the death toll is much higher than what the CCP/Chinese government are claiming?

Husband is not aware of anyone in his company that has died over there. From what I gather most people are scared so just staying home without a whole lot any real information being provided to them. Some just flat out don't want to come back to work yet.
 

rondaben

Veteran Member
So here’s my question. These American companies that have factories in China. Do they have transparency/knowledge from an HR standpoint on the status of their workers? Like would they know if specific individuals are now deceased? I keep reading articles that there is a lack of workers because of quarantine, but one can’t help but to wonder if there’s a lack of workers because the death toll is much higher than what the CCP/Chinese government are claiming?
neice works for a major company with factory in wuhan. said dail briefings they got indicated more than 100k infected at end of January. reports stopped when factory shut down.
 
Last edited:
Top