BRKG Jury convicts 'Rust' armorer of involuntary manslaughter in fatal shooting by Alec Baldwin - UPDATE Post #47

Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
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Jury convicts 'Rust' armorer of involuntary manslaughter in fatal shooting by Alec Baldwin

by MORGAN LEE | Associated PressWed, March 6th 2024 at 4:09 PM
Updated Wed, March 6th 2024 at 5:24 PM


SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — A jury convicted a movie weapons supervisor of involuntary manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a cinematographer by actor Alec Baldwin during a rehearsal on the set of the Western movie “Rust.”

The verdict against movie armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed assigns new blame in the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in October 2021 after an assistant director last year pleaded no contest to negligent handling of a firearm.

Baldwin, the lead actor and a co-producer on “Rust,” was indicted by a grand jury in January on a charge of involuntary manslaughter. He was pointing a gun at Hutchins on a movie set outside Santa Fe, New Mexico, when the gun went off, killing her and wounding director Joel Souza.

Prosecutors at a two week trial alleged Gutierrez-Reed unwittingly brought live ammunition onto the set of “Rust” while flouting basic industry gun-safety guidelines.

The involuntary manslaughter charge against Gutierrez-Reed carries a maximum penalty of 18 months in prison and a $5,000 fine.

cbsaustin.com

Jury convicts 'Rust' armorer of involuntary manslaughter in fatal shooting by Alec Baldwin

A jury convicted a movie weapons supervisor of involuntary manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a cinematographer by actor Alec Baldwin on the set of "Rust."
cbsaustin.com cbsaustin.com
 
et2

et2

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Why did he point the gun at her and pull the trigger? He got off without jail time?

Can’t stand Baldwin. The gun just pointed itself at her and fired without pulling the trigger. That’s what the jackass said … right? POS loser.
 
Intestinal Fortitude

Intestinal Fortitude

Have Faith
et2 said:
Why did he point the gun at her and pull the trigger? He got off without jail time?

Can’t stand Baldwin. The gun just pointed itself at her and fired without pulling the trigger. That’s what the jackass said … right? POS loser.
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He has yet to be tried. Next month.

Why did he has the gun if it was only a rehearsal?
 
Sacajawea

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
How the hell do you "unwittingly" bring live ammunition to set? You've checked it already - right? Did someone tamper with your setup? After you checked it?

Or are you not qualified to know which ammo is blanks and which is live?

Either way: the armorer wasn't qualifed for the job... and that falls on the producer: Baldwin. Who hired her?
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
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Prosecutors at a two week trial alleged Gutierrez-Reed unwittingly brought live ammunition onto the set of “Rust” while flouting basic industry gun-safety guidelines.
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So, they are asserting she doesn't know the difference between live and dummy ammo? I don't know HOW you could "unknowingly" bring live ammo to a movie set, which by definition is NEVER supposed to see a live round!

Not to mention the reports of cast members and crew "plinking" with guns and (obviously) live ammo in days before the shooting.

She should never work in the industry again.

Summerthyme
 
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ShadowMan

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
The FBI destroyed the Peacemaker trying to get it to go off without pulling the trigger......they couldn't get it to fire. Bottom line, Baldwin pulled the trigger. HOWEVER - COMMA, they are going to hang EVERYTHING on Hanna who has already been thrown under the bus and found guilty of manslaughter and claim that Baldwin was a victim of her negligence and that he was just playing a role, is a DUMB ACTOR and not responsible for what happened even though the gun was in his hand and he did in fact pull the trigger. After all....he was told the gun was cold, so it can't be his fault. That's why they hired an armorer because actors don't know squat about firearms....DOH!

The fact that there had been THREE NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES before the fatal incident should have alerted EVERYONE that BAD JuJu was going to happen. Not to mention that a chunk of the camera crew walked off the set due to safety concerns....that might have been a hint that trouble was coming.

Baldwin is GUILTY as both the actor and the producer for allowing incompetent people on the set and not taking the necessary safety precautions.....and he PULLED THE TRIGGER! :smkd:
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
summerthyme said:
Not to mention the reports of cast members and crew "plinking" with guns and (obviously) live ammo in days before the shooting.
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I could sorta see that, off set, on a range, with the admonition about live rounds and strict gun safety instruction. Even actors should know what "real" looks like and the effects thereof. That could be training on firearm safety.
But... this wasn't that.
 
Red Baron

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
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ShadowMan said:
The FBI destroyed the Peacemaker trying to get it to go off without pulling the trigger......they couldn't get it to fire. Bottom line, Baldwin pulled the trigger. HOWEVER - COMMA, they are going to hang EVERYTHING on Hanna who has already been thrown under the bus and found guilty of manslaughter and claim that Baldwin was a victim of her negligence and that he was just playing a role, is a DUMB ACTOR and not responsible for what happened even though the gun was in his hand and he did in fact pull the trigger. After all....he was told the gun was cold, so it can't be his fault. That's why they hired an armorer because actors don't know squat about firearms....DOH!

The fact that there had been THREE NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES before the fatal incident should have alerted EVERYONE that BAD JuJu was going to happen. Not to mention that a chunk of the camera crew walked off the set due to safety concerns....that might have been a hint that trouble was coming.
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After rehearsals, some of the crew were seen live firing the set guns for "target practice". It was common knowledge that "live" ammunition was on the set and had even been fired on multiple occasions.

As a producer, Baldwin has the ultimate responsibility for set safety.

A good prosecutor won't let him use the "dumb actor" excuse.
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
Red Baron said:
After rehearsals, some of the crew were seen live firing the set guns for "target practice". It was common knowledge that "live" ammunition was on the set and had even been fired on multiple occasions.

As a producer, Baldwin has the ultimate responsibility for set safety.

A good prosecutor won't let him use the "dumb actor" excuse.
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That right there was a bad idea-should never have been allowed.
And even blanks have killed people, at close enough range.
 
Tundra Gypsy

Tundra Gypsy

Veteran Member
Why the heck would you point a gun at anyone? Real ammo or fake. He must have disliked the gal to point the gun at her intentionally. I only point to kill. I've told folks that before. If I ever have to defend myself; you will be shot.
.
 
Shadow

Shadow

Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
The first thing you do when you pick up a gun is check to see if it is loaded. Baldwin did not do that. After that failure he pointed it at a human. He is responsible.

A friend was taking a gun safety class. The officers had made dummies by loading bullets into fired brass, with the dented primers. He kept opening the revolver they provided, for dry practice, to check because it made him so nervous.

No matter what the armorer is guilty of Baldwin is guilty many times over!

Shadow
 
N

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Within HIS parameters, as an actor, he CAN NOT DICK WITH A prop handed to him. IF HE OPENS THE GUN, the armorer or propmaster MUST THEN RESET the gun.

Y'all need to learn the rules IN PLAY in different situations.
 
Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior
they made sure that this gal went to trial first - old old courtroom tactic going back to the beginning of the legal system >>> a hangover from the Roman Colosseum dayz - the crowd only needed to see soooo much blood & death each day - if you were far enough down the entertainment billing you could live another day .....

Baldwin won't be on trial - this convicted woman will be all over again - they'll keep mentioning her conviction - her fault - her problems - her unprofessionalism - she's the murder - Baldwin is just an innocent actor that just does what he's coached to do - boo hoo hoo
 
bcingu

bcingu

Senior Member
Illini Warrior said:
they made sure that this gal went to trial first - old old courtroom tactic going back to the beginning of the legal system >>> a hangover from the Roman Colosseum dayz - the crowd only needed to see soooo much blood & death each day - if you were far enough down the entertainment billing you could live another day .....

Baldwin won't be on trial - this convicted woman will be all over again - they'll keep mentioning her conviction - her fault - her problems - her unprofessionalism - she's the murder - Baldwin is just an innocent actor that just does what he's coached to do - boo hoo hoo
Click to expand...
Yet another old tactic is the wealthier accused pays the other accused to take the blame or go to trial before them.
I'am sure Alec had no problem assuring this young ladies future after her state vacation.
 
N

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Let me quote from an experienced armorer for H**Wood.:

One point that I would like to make, because I see it referenced so often, is the idea that Alec Baldwin violated Jeff Cooper’s 4 firearm rules. I am a firearm enthusiast outside of work - and I abide by those rules religiously.

***But, as you stated, a film set is not a gun range.***

All kinds of things happen on film sets (on camera) that would be otherwise illegal, immoral, or unethical in other environments. I have helped to simulate countless murders and suicides. I.have watched people be lit on fire and thrown off of roofs, I have played a part in car chases on Los Angeles streets that exceeded 100 miles an hour. I have watched people get run over by cars, raped, tortured to death, etc. and in every single one of those cases everyone went home at the end of the day, ready to do it again tomorrow .

A film set is a place where you simulate reality. And believe it or not, the people who are capable of simulating reality, identically over and over again know an awful lot about the way reality works. That is a requirement to do the job safely.

And FURTHERMORE:

The only thing that I could say about Baldwin is that he *could have asked permission to see what was in the gun, but he was not required to do. He also should not have accepted a gun from a 1st AD. But* this was a low budget show and the 1st AD was acting as a stand in. And the show was falling apart and crews were walking off set. So it was chaos. And chaos is the time you lock up the gun truck and tell everyone to take 5.

As a producer, he is a creative producer, he had nothing to do with hiring the crew, etc. so if you want to go after him as a producer, he’s the last producer that you go after from a culpability point of view .

As a mental exercise - Riddle me this. How do we film a suicide scene (pistol in mouth) without violation all 4 of Coopers rules?

Having done this several times, I can tell you it is nerve racking EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. No matter how many checks you do, no matter how many people witness the condition of the gun. And if at any time in your career, it stops being nerve racking - then it’s time to hang it up and to find a new job.
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
et2 said:
Why did he point the gun at her and pull the trigger? He got off without jail time?

Can’t stand Baldwin. The gun just pointed itself at her and fired without pulling the trigger. That’s what the jackass said … right? POS loser.
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He is part of the protected class..a commie
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
night driver said:
Let me quote from an experienced armorer for H**Wood.:

One point that I would like to make, because I see it referenced so often, is the idea that Alec Baldwin violated Jeff Cooper’s 4 firearm rules. I am a firearm enthusiast outside of work - and I abide by those rules religiously.

***But, as you stated, a film set is not a gun range.***

All kinds of things happen on film sets (on camera) that would be otherwise illegal, immoral, or unethical in other environments. I have helped to simulate countless murders and suicides. I.have watched people be lit on fire and thrown off of roofs, I have played a part in car chases on Los Angeles streets that exceeded 100 miles an hour. I have watched people get run over by cars, raped, tortured to death, etc. and in every single one of those cases everyone went home at the end of the day, ready to do it again tomorrow .

A film set is a place where you simulate reality. And believe it or not, the people who are capable of simulating reality, identically over and over again know an awful lot about the way reality works. That is a requirement to do the job safely.

And FURTHERMORE:

The only thing that I could say about Baldwin is that he *could have asked permission to see what was in the gun, but he was not required to do. He also should not have accepted a gun from a 1st AD. But* this was a low budget show and the 1st AD was acting as a stand in. And the show was falling apart and crews were walking off set. So it was chaos. And chaos is the time you lock up the gun truck and tell everyone to take 5.

As a producer, he is a creative producer, he had nothing to do with hiring the crew, etc. so if you want to go after him as a producer, he’s the last producer that you go after from a culpability point of view .

As a mental exercise - Riddle me this. How do we film a suicide scene (pistol in mouth) without violation all 4 of Coopers rules?

Having done this several times, I can tell you it is nerve racking EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. No matter how many checks you do, no matter how many people witness the condition of the gun. And if at any time in your career, it stops being nerve racking - then it’s time to hang it up and to find a new job.
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"As a mental exercise - Riddle me this. How do we film a suicide scene (pistol in mouth) without violation all 4 of Coopers rules?"

Whomever the actor is doing the scene should probably make sure the weapon isnt loaded with real ammo..its his/her life on the line and they are the last one touching the weapon, they are in control ect..ect
As always there is no excuse or reason the person holding said weapon should be off the hook and have no responsability for issues that may arrise other than actual malfunction and if hollywood gets a pass on this crap, then anything goes and apparently does.
 
P

Publius

TB Fanatic
Sacajawea said:
How the hell do you "unwittingly" bring live ammunition to set? You've checked it already - right? Did someone tamper with your setup? After you checked it?

Or are you not qualified to know which ammo is blanks and which is live?

Either way: the armorer wasn't qualifed for the job... and that falls on the producer: Baldwin. Who hired her?
Click to expand...

Thats my thinking as some nut job can come along and slip a live round in the batch when no one is looking.
Folks what we are seeing here is abuse of language or twisting the law to gain a conviction by any means posable, but to say it was Involuntary and make that into a crime. :hmm::confused:
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
subnet said:
"As a mental exercise - Riddle me this. How do we film a suicide scene (pistol in mouth) without violation all 4 of Coopers rules?"

Whomever the actor is doing the scene should probably make sure the weapon isnt loaded with real ammo..its his/her life on the line and they are the last one touching the weapon, they are in control ect..ect
As always there is no excuse or reason the person holding said weapon should be off the hook and have no responsability for issues that may arrise other than actual malfunction and if hollywood gets a pass on this crap, then anything goes and apparently does.
Click to expand...
Guns can be lethal. Anyone that has a need to handle a gun should receive some sort of training prior.
If you are just showing a weapon to someone who is unfamiliar with guns, that's a really good opportunity to explain the safety rules. Show them how to clear the gun and verify that it is cleared. The first thing I do when handed a gun is to check that it's cleared, even if I saw them "clear" it.
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
tnphil said:
Guns can be lethal. Anyone that has a need to handle a gun should receive some sort of training prior.
If you are just showing a weapon to someone who is unfamiliar with guns, that's a really good opportunity to explain the safety rules. Show them how to clear the gun and verify that it is cleared. The first thing I do when handed a gun is to check that it's cleared, even if I saw them "clear" it.
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Exactly!!! how in the hell does hollywood get a damn pass on the basics.

Its lunacy and typical of the left in that they somehow believe they should not have to take personal responsibility for anything.
 
Bubble Head

Bubble Head

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Was there only one live round in the revolver? I have never heard if so. If only one live round the odds of russian roulette come into play. Remember as the revolver is cocked the round advances to under the firing hammer. It has to be in that exact position to advance and be live. Pretty slim odds if it is the only live round. Or was the gun fired more than once during the rehearsal? That would advance the round to the correct firing position. Maybe this has all been brought out and I missed it. I remain under the opinion Baldwin new what he was doing. It was cold blood from my prospective. The armorer who was convicted was sent to do another task prior to the gun being handed to Baldwin. She was to young and inexperienced to have been in that position and say no she has a task. Drugs may have also played into poor judgement.
 
A

accountant

Contributing Member
Excuse my ignorance, but I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding this.

Hollywood movies are all fake, right? Actors are just people pretending to be someone else.
In most cases, sets are fake and built in huge sound stages.
There are fake cigarettes, fake knives, and fake alcohol in Hollywood movies.

Why on earth would a real, functioning firearm be allowed to be brought on set?
Couldn't the props department make a plastic cap gun look like a revolver? Or even one of those play guns that sends out a "BANG" flag once the trigger is pulled?
And even if a real firearm was used, couldn't the firing pin be removed prior to it being placed in the actor's hand?

I don't know. Maybe I'm just too reasonable.

A.
 
Red Baron

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
accountant said:
Excuse my ignorance, but I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding this.

Hollywood movies are all fake, right? Actors are just people pretending to be someone else.
In most cases, sets are fake and built in huge sound stages.
There are fake cigarettes, fake knives, and fake alcohol in Hollywood movies.

Why on earth would a real, functioning firearm be allowed to be brought on set?
Couldn't the props department make a plastic cap gun look like a revolver? Or even one of those play guns that sends out a "BANG" flag once the trigger is pulled?
And even if a real firearm was used, couldn't the firing pin be removed prior to it being placed in the actor's hand?

I don't know. Maybe I'm just too reasonable.

A.
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Building a super realistic fake gun with realistic firing effects would be more expensive than using a real firearm using blanks.
 
Pebbles

Pebbles

Veteran Member
According to people in the industry in Sante Fe who regularly do bit parts in the many western's now filmed in New Mexico, these people know the armorer and some had worked with her. They all have said she was an absolute air head. Their experience with armorer's was that they are always older people who are very serious about their job, very organized, and extremely careful with every weapon that they were responsible for. She became an armorer because her father was an armorer.
She was cheap to hire and Baldwin did everything on the cheap for this movie "Rust". She regularly had live ammo just laying around on the set of "Rust" and other movies where she has been the armorer. Rumor was that life on the set was a disaster all the time. Baldwin was an ass and ran a shoddy set.
 
day late

day late

money? whats that?
The way I was raised EVERY weapon is loaded, until you prove to yourself that it isn't, by personal inspection. Baldwin didn't do that. HE and he alone is responsible for the death. He didn't inspect the weapon. The lady who was the armorer, does bare some of the responsibility since it was her job to ensure no weapons contained live ammo. BUT Baldwin does bare a good part of the blame for this terrible accident.
 
bw

bw

Fringe Ranger
night driver said:
Within HIS parameters, as an actor, he CAN NOT DICK WITH A prop handed to him. IF HE OPENS THE GUN, the armorer or propmaster MUST THEN RESET the gun.

Y'all need to learn the rules IN PLAY in different situations.
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Correct, and a waste of time. Discussing this is like having a quiet discussion about abortion. They ain't listening, Boss.
 
day late

day late

money? whats that?
night driver said:
Within HIS parameters, as an actor, he CAN NOT DICK WITH A prop handed to him. IF HE OPENS THE GUN, the armorer or propmaster MUST THEN RESET the gun.

Y'all need to learn the rules IN PLAY in different situations.
Click to expand...

Not a problem. Just before the cameras roll, the armorer loads the weapon IN FRONT of the actor. Everyone knows what is under the hammer. There is no excuse in mistakes when handling loaded weapons. No excuse for anyone. Baldwin broke the rules. I hope he never lives down what he did. I hope he sees the same scene played out in his dreams every night. He did it. He did not preform safely and is responsible for the death and injury.

Oh, and Chuck. It was a revolver. Why didn't he at least look at the end of the cylinder. The tip of a blank looks very different than a live round and you don't have to open the weapon.
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
night driver said:
If you've done any acting, then you would understand the truths there.
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The kid and the wife did, i steered clear because it was all leftie trash, every damn time.
Does that give me perspective/insight... no, does it change my view on the globally accepted basics that everyone should follow as proven by what happened, not one bit.
 
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subnet

subnet

Boot
night driver said:
Within HIS parameters, as an actor, he CAN NOT DICK WITH A prop handed to him. IF HE OPENS THE GUN, the armorer or propmaster MUST THEN RESET the gun.

Y'all need to learn the rules IN PLAY in different situations.
Click to expand...
A weapon is checked when handed to another, in front of the person that checks it after recieving it, while the one that just gave said weapon is watching.
Its a tried and true system.
 
bw

bw

Fringe Ranger
subnet said:
A weapon is checked when handed to another, in front of the person that checks it after recieving it, while the one that just gave said weapon is watching.
Its a tried and true system.
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Movie making has a tried and true system. If the idiot armorer had followed it, no one would be dead.
 
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