[POL] If you want to understand the vote split in the young...

[brihard]

I don't care what you think of Kerry, or Eminem, or rap music, but if you want to understand the vote split in the young, watch this video, and watch it objectively. It's Eminem's latest music video- completely political, but my God, is there a lot of strength in the message! I came across it a few days ago, and finally found a place hosting it for online viewing. It brings up the exact issues that are swaying young voters, and damned if there isn't a lot of truth to it, whether or not I agree with the politics...

http://mp.aol.com/dalaillama/video.index.adp?mxid=ti,1206187&_AOLFORM=w656.h395.p7.R10

I realize that those of us who are young do not necessarily share the same views on a lot of issues- morality, religion, economics and patriotism are often seen differently across the generations. For those of us who are young, it's not a matter of faith anymore, or party loyalty. People of my generation are voting on 'What's going to happen to me in the next few years? Will I be drafted to go to Iraq? Will I ba ble to get through College without getting called up? Will I be able toa fford life away form my parents? Can I put gas into my car?'. Videos like this show my generation that the deocrats are realizing what we're concerned about- amidst constant silence towards us from the right. And THAT'S what's grabbing a lot of voters. something like 54-58% of my generation are voting democrat in this election, and registration numebrs are at an all time high for young voters. Watch this video and you'll start to understand why, regardless of your personal politics

 

[royal]

I'm not very young, but WOW.
The message is there.

Tim

 

[delta lady]

I'm no Eminem fan

But I did find the video very compelling. I even forwarded it to my son.

 

[brihard]

Even ignoring the pro-Kerry slant, it does an excellent job of demonstrating how exactly the young voters are being attracted, doesn't it? It's the sort of thing that can be held up as a rallying cry- and I know the video's been pretty popular on music video request shows that people my age like to watch...

 

[theoutlands]

Too bad more kids aren't listening to Toby Keith and Charlie Daniels.....

 

[CanadaSue]

Blame me

He called me into his room to warch the video & after a minute, I 'got it'. I felt I finally really understood a lot of what may be driving young voters tomorrow. I AM in some ways an Eminem fan. Some of his material is compelling & this one delivers a pretty complex message or set of messages in a tight little package. The scenarios he shows are matter that DO concern the young today.

I'm not sure when this was released but keep seeing that new voter registration is hitting records this time around. Don't know what percentage are young voters but surely a large chunk are just that. The rumour of a draft has not been put to rest to many young peoples' satisfaction; they ARE media savvy & pick up a surprising amount of news romours from sources we may not expect.

They're not going to vote on faith or who is the 'better' man. This generation has grown up with sleaze or more accurately, more blatant sleaze & they impatiently wave that aside looking for the issues that matter to them. And it's as Brian put it - can they pay for college, leave home, afford an independent life? Will Ieaq od similar wars make stable family lives even more difficult?

Personally I don't think for a minute that the Democrats can guarantee stability, a good economy etc. any better than any government. This generation is used to slcik packaging though & many are NOT used to digging below the surface of any message which, on the SURFACE, is something they want to hear.

Tomorrow is gonna be very interesting, not least of all because of the generational vote split.

I believe Canadian networks are going to begin giving results as soon as the first polls are closed & votes tallied & they can get the results. No law here forcing us to wait until California is closed & we WILL have reporters in 'the right' places to get at least some indication of how the tally is going. If that's the case, I'll post results & projections but on a clearly labelled thread so those who wish to wait until 2300 can do so.

 

[brihard]

Too bad more kids aren't listening to Toby Keith and Charlie Daniels.....

Nice to say that, but it doesn't work that way. The politicans have to attract us- we're not going looking for political messages. We have other things on our minds; information, for the most part, hits us by accident, through the mass media and through the entertainment industry. The democrats have realzied this and are seeking us out; look at the campaigns to register young voters- they're practically all left! The republicans are relying on their normal demgraphics, but those aren't going to be predominantly right enough to hand them the election outright. There have been a lot of us come to maturity since 2000, who've seen some serious world events. We're young and idealistic, and a lot of us want to make a differnece- that's going to come out in this election. Many of the young people, in our idealism (myself being an exception) see Bush as the source of a lot of problems; I talk to people at school, online, in online computer games, and the general concencous among my age group is taht Bush isn't right for America. Whether that's true or not, we've been given little to help prove otherwise.

Whether voters are informed or not, they will vote. It's not jsut up to them to inform themselves, particularly young people who don't incline to do that anwyay- the parties have to meet us half way, and only the democrats are doing that...

 

[CanadaSue]

Outlands, the fact is...

they DON'T listen to those 2 singers & others of their genre & generation. They are paying attention to the messages of those they DO listen to.

Look in the 70s I didn't look to the Inkspots, the Statler Brothers or Frank Sinatra for such messages. Generations have their own music & their own oncerns.

 

[brihard]

Heh. Looks like mom and I keep double-tapping the same replies at the same time...

 

[theoutlands]

Point being - imo, the fact that kids are listening to and getting their polotical "education" from singers such as Eminem reflects a hideous decay in morality and responsibility in our society. Kids aren't learning because "The System" isn't TEACHING them. The two singers I named are as current as Eminem in their own genre, so it isn't a generation - and as for genre popularity, it also has some to do w/ geographics and upbringing.

We're losing the war for our culture - I just hope there will be *some* survivors out there to rebuild.

 

[brihard]

I think I already mentioned that your generation and mine see morality differently. Whether you see that as unfortunate or not, it's simply the truth.

The political parties can justify why we don't vote for them however they like, but that fact still remains that they failed to win our vote. If you don't like how we've gotten our political education, perhaps its your (as a generation) failure to give us a better one. We ARE a political force, and one that only the democrats seem to be recognizing. The swayable 20% need to be swayedone way or the the other, and it seems to me that there's only one party pulling...

Unfortunately, I think that a lot of people of the older generation simply will not understand a lot of what I'm saying- much as your own parents might not have understood you in our youth. And yet, you've still grown up and gone on to have your say, and we'll do the same thing. With or without guidance, the only difference will be in how we approach things.

P.S.- I still get the impression you didn't watch the video...

 

[housemouse]

Brihard, I tried to watch the video. But couldn't make it all the way through it. Remember that I am 60 years old, and have values formed in the 50s.

But, I can respond to your questions about your generation wondering whether you will have "the good and safe" life, with no major problems. The short answer is no. None of us have ever enjoyed that.

Think of what kids your age faced coming of age in the 30s. Think of what they dealt with during the depression era, when many of them had to quit school in the 3rd, or 8th grade to go to work to keep their younger brothers and sisters fed. Then WW2 hit, and many of them died on a beach before even dreaming of college, a car of their own, marriage, etc...

During the depression, whole families moved in with whoever had a paid up house just to survive. Many parents had to leave children with grandparents so they could find work somewhere to send money home. Many didn't make it.

Fast forward to my generation. I married young, as we tended to do then, pre "birth-control". I lived in the attic of a nice gentleman's house, who took us in. I had no car, and had to use the baby carriage to walk blocks to market and to the laundromat, porting the groceries and laundry around the new baby. No furniture, wasn't enough money for it.

The Cuban Missle crisis was what we "young" worried about then. And whether the nuclear war would wipe us all out before we could have our shot at life. And those of us luckey enough not to have died, or been wounded beyond repair in Vietnam felt fortunate.

DH and I lived with 4 children in a two bedroom apt until we managed to borrow enough for a down payment on a brick building that had two stores on the main floor to help us pay the mortgage. It wasn't a house, but at least the baby didn't have to sleep in the hall. We didn't have our own proper house until we had been married for 16 years.

We made most of our furniture out of cheap hollow-core doors, "do-it-yourself" screw on metal legs, slabs of foam, and fabric I sewed into covers. But, we were happy, we laughed, we had fun. We could only afford a little black and white TV, and some of our best family memories are of me making dinner, while Dad and the kids watched "Momma"with Carol Burnett reruns (at the dining room "table"... all 5 heads crowded around that tiny black and white screen, laughing their heads off.

Each generation has had apparently insurmountable challenges, both economic and hostile warfare, that threaten their dreams of easy times.

Now it is your generation's turn to grow up and face reality, that the more things change, the more they stay the same. But, you have one problem we didn't to deal with, and that is the incessant manipulation of your expectations by the media. I do feel badly for the kids who have been so conditioned that they think they "have" to have it all, right away, right after leaving home. They feel bleak and betrayed by society because they can't get it all, right away, with no major struggle.

So they get mad at the government, thinking that if there are no guarantees, then somehow they have been deprived of a "birthright". The Eminems of this world play on this sense of frustration and fear, generating anger and rage. The politician who comes into the scene promising the most goodies gets the "vote".

The problem is that there are no goodies to hand out unless someone somwhere works his/her tail off to produce something valued that the politician can take part of to give to those who feel entitled to it with little or no hard work, fear, worry, or disappointment.

In short, I understand what the young feel, but also know that they have been sold a bill of goods, and their feelings are based on illusions of a kind and easy world that has never existed in the past, and never will in the future, no matter what a politician, or rock star tells them.

 

[pipeings]

Too bad more kids aren't listening to Toby Keith and Charlie Daniels.....

my 16yo son is an enormous toby keith fan. i think more young people than you realize are inspired by his down home patriotism and solid values.

karen

 

[BUBBAHOTEPT]

Rather ironic that my 78 year old mother is a total Demo and I cannot even discuss politics with her.......... While I am 47, I am on the other side; however, I am not going to vote for either side. I realize what both sides represent and more importantly what they will do in the long run..............The video is good but I wonder where all that passion was in in the 90s??????? The trick is Really crawling through the swamp without the music. I hope your generation keeps the electricity flowing...................


In any event I'll be waiting and watching............................

 

[brihard]

A very good reply, with a lot of points. Every generation faces its hard times. Every young generation does its best to try to resolve them; in WW2, they did that by joining up. These days, young people see the 'war' as being a political one that determines how their country will develop through their lifetimes. I think a lot of them see Bush as one who can't tackle these problems to their satisfaction, whereas Kerry puts on a better face. I'm not saying he's the better choice- but he makes a better presentation to the younger crowd, and has managed to draw support from a lot of those from whom the young draw their inspirations. THIS is the warthe republicans should have tried to win coming up to the election- that's a large voting demographic to lose through inaction.

As I said, I don't agree with what Eminem says- but he says it pretty damned convincingly for people of my generation.

 

[housemouse]

A very good reply, with a lot of points. Every generation faces its hard times. Every young generation does its best to try to resolve them; in WW2, they did that by joining up.

Not points, Brihard, just my observations... and many of those who joined up were hoping for a bed and a meal, alas!

These days, young people see the 'war' as being a political one that determines how their country will develop through their lifetimes.

All wars are political, I think. I can't remember one in my lifetime that wasn't. And, there are always so many different opinions on whether war is a solution. Some say, "never". I disagree with that opinion.

I think a lot of them see Bush as one who can't tackle these problems to their satisfaction, whereas Kerry puts on a better face.

Hey, you are right on there! Kerry is holding out the "Turkish Delight" candy, and many would prefer that to facing the fact that some people want to take over other people by force or threat, and make them do whatever, or else!

I'm not saying he's the better choice- but he makes a better presentation to the younger crowd, and has managed to draw support from a lot of those from whom the young draw their inspirations.

The only trouble with being young, and I was once, so can tell you the truth... the young know nothing about reality. They just think they do, and thus are easily manipulated. Most of us who were young once are pretty much ashamed of how easily we were manipulated by the pied pipers of our day.

I know I am, and I never fell too hard into the notion that free sex, drugs, and rock and roll were a way of life. I am just embarrased about some of the dumb choices in clothing I made, the boys I thought were "real men" that I dated , and notions I held about how humane prisons could reform just about any serial murderer or rapist...

THIS is the warthe republicans should have tried to win coming up to the election- that's a large voting demographic to lose through inaction.

OK, Brihard... Think of Bush as Churchill without a scintilla of eloquence, and Kerry as Chamberlain... you are a callow English yout'... Alas, this is how it looks to me. Kerry is pushing "Turkish Delight", and too many of the young are like Edward.

As I said, I don't agree with what Eminem says- but he says it pretty damned convincingly for people of my generation.

Of course he does, or else the endless beat of the human dilemma wouldn't go on. For there are Eminem equivalents in every generation. Nothing is ever new and different. The question is so beautifully posed in just enough different circumstances, with the players just so perfectly disguised, that each generation has to make what seems to be a fresh new choice...

I am glad you posted the topic, and I have a feeling that someday you will be 60, and passing these same observations about life along to another young person who is as intelligent and questioning as you are...

 

[Lady Wingnut]

another point is peer pressure...

It sounds trite but I get the feeling a lot of young people are voting Democrat/Kerry b/c the media, which they are consumed with, tells them that if you don't support Kerry, you are not cool, you are close-minded, etc...come on, Ashton Kutcher, P.Diddy, Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore...now Eminem...I am in my early 30's and I work w/ a lot of people in late teens, early 20's...they all blurt out the "vote or die!" mantra, throw around a few "no blood for oil" comments and that's the extent of their analysis.

The Democrats are better at manipulating the youth b/c come on, dave Matthews, REM and the Boss holding concerts to raise $$$ for you? Cultural icons are viewed as prophets and the votes then roll in....

 

[kanuck57]

This one has been around for a while and still gets airplay 2-3 times a day on the major R+R radio stations in Winnipeg.

Green Day - American Idiot video on their website:
http://greenday.com/greenday.html


Don't want to be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media.
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mindfcuk America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's going out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

 

[Anjou]

The best advice I can offer youth is think for yourself and do a heck of a lot of reading... to see what is happening, through the lens of what did happen in history. Were all rousing revolutions a good idea? Probably not. Sometimes, they were.

I would recommend not losing your idealism, though perhaps growing its context.

 

[brihard]

Hey thanks, Kanuck- that's the other good song I've heard lately that I wanted to remember to download.

 

[bw3]

I can tell that you are pretty intelligent Brihard, so I'll just be upfront with you. You will learn soon enough that politicians will lie to get your vote. If a Presidential candidate is really appealing to people 25 and under then I'm willing to bet that he is simply pandering. I'm not cutting you down here-I know what we felt when we were about 20 y.o. I will also say that rappers aren't the best source of political knowledge (for that matter, why does anything that ANY entertainer says matter? I bet you're more intelligent than 95% of them?)

Ask yourself a couple of questions:

Does the candidate promise you the moon and stars? "I will lower taxes, end this war, pay for everyones college fees, pay all medical bills, bring jobs and tax the big evil corporations, make friends with all the terrorists, buy everyone a new car, lower oil prices". If he does, then he's lying.

Has he acted consistently within his principals, or does he swing whichever way is popular? Does he even have principals?

Does he have a spine? Can he stand up to criticism?

Most importantly-Does he believe in a sovereign United States of America? We were the greatest country on the face of the planet for a reason-we don't need to take instructions from Zimbabwe or Djibouti or Iceland! We should not be adopting any socialist BS. Screw the UN!

YOU do the voting Brihard. Find out which principals will guide you in YOUR life, then you can vote correctly.

BW3

 

[fruit loop]

As a Generation Xer....

I have nothing in common with the Bush folks either.

His generation was raised on the strong pro-American propaganda machine of the 1940s and 1950s. Be a good citizen, say the Pledge of Allegiance, fight the Reds.

My generation was tired of doing things because that's the way they were always done. We saw Social Security going down the drain and realize it won't be there for us, and we're pissed off when we see what's being stolen out of our paychecks.

We see past the smoke of "patriotism" and "the greatest country in the world with a responsibility to make the rest of the world as free as we are" for what it is - a trap to force us into a war in some foreign country nobody's ever heard of so that the fat cats in Washington can keep making money.

As for Toby Keith - I liked his music when it WAS country music, and not the jingoistic pablum written specifically to cash in on 9-11. When that happened I wondered how long it would be before some overpaid entertainer wrote a smarmy piece of crap like "Where Were You When The World Stopped Turning" or testosterone-driven cave-man mentality "Let's go whack something" idiocy to "commemorate" the tragedy.

Patriotism......don't make me gag.

I'm proud of today's generation. They're smart enough to think for themselves like we did in the sixties, rather than buying into that pile of sheep droppings about "let's put our personal feelings aside and get behind 'our' president because it's the right thing to do."

This reminds me of the election when the Baby Boomers cheered Bush Sr because he said he wanted to make America look more like Leave It To Beaver than the Simpsons, and the kids laughed. Maybe your generation vacuumed the carpet wearing high heels and pearls in the 1950s, but our generation is lucky if we can even afford them.

 

[bw3]

Wow!
Straight from college brainwashing class? and it says it thinks for itself!

 

[brihard]

I can tell that you are pretty intelligent Brihard, so I'll just be upfront with you. You will learn soon enough that politicians will lie to get your vote. If a Presidential candidate is really appealing to people 25 and under then I'm willing to bet that he is simply pandering. I'm not cutting you down here-I know what we felt when we were about 20 y.o. I will also say that rappers aren't the best source of political knowledge (for that matter, why does anything that ANY entertainer says matter? I bet you're more intelligent than 95% of them?)

Ask yourself a couple of questions:

Does the candidate promise you the moon and stars? "I will lower taxes, end this war, pay for everyones college fees, pay all medical bills, bring jobs and tax the big evil corporations, make friends with all the terrorists, buy everyone a new car, lower oil prices". If he does, then he's lying.

Has he acted consistently within his principals, or does he swing whichever way is popular? Does he even have principals?

Does he have a spine? Can he stand up to criticism?

Most importantly-Does he believe in a sovereign United States of America? We were the greatest country on the face of the planet for a reason-we don't need to take instructions from Zimbabwe or Djibouti or Iceland! We should not be adopting any socialist BS. Screw the UN!

YOU do the voting Brihard. Find out which principals will guide you in YOUR life, then you can vote correctly.

BW3

Of course he's jsut pandering- I knew that regardless. Were I voting in this election, I definitely wouldn't be voting for Kerry. Not sure if I could vote for Bush either. Unfortunately, most of the third parties are too reactionary for me as well; I'm friggin' confused. Thank God I'm Canadian, eh?

I personally don't look to the mass media to inform me about stuff like this. I jsut brought up this post tho show people how we ARE being presented with material. And as I've said again and again, the only point that I'm trying to make is that this video is a very powerful presentation. Again, I disagree with the politics, but the issues are pretty clear, and I can't disagree with the fact that many of my age are frightened by then. Things like the potential draft, etc etc.

As I said, my personal politics are pretty screwed up... None of the candidates really offer the balance I'm looking for. I suppose I'm more of a centrist libertarian than anything else; the libertarian party is TOO libertarian (open borders, etc etc.) for me. The constitution party appeals to me on some basis, but they strike me as too close to a theocracy. Either way, I don't rely on anyone's active effort to feed me political information- I go out and find it myself. Unfortunately, most of my peers do not. Of my class, only one person can name any of the third parties or candidates. Sad state of affairs. At least here in Canada we have a bit more of a political diversity.

For decades youth have been making significant impacts- from the vietnam peace rallies to today's political activism. Unfortunately, it seems as if the conservatives, in eschewing what we find appeals to us, have abandoned hopes of support from most of those in my generation. Since we, for the majority, don't know when to shut up about stuff, getting our support can be an even bigger boost than numbers would generally indicate.

It's very unfortunate that in general our power as a generation is matched only by our ignorance...

 

[bw3]

My bad. I read it a little wrong. Refreshing to see that not all young people are so easily influenced by celebrity and college professors still on a bad acid trip from the 60's
Too bad you're not voting here. Or are you

 

[brihard]

Nope. I'm neither old enough, nor of the right citizenship.

 

[housemouse]

For decades youth have been making significant impacts- from the vietnam peace rallies

This kinda stopped me cold, Brihard.

Do you have any idea what happened in Cambodia after the Vietnam peace rallies and Kerry taking instructions from the communists managed to get "uncle Walter" to knuckel under?

Do some research. Think about how many jews were incinerated before the Chamberlains in the US were silenced by Pearl Harbor.... I think the communists outdid Hitler.

But, all we wanna worry about is our cars, apartments, and getting cheap college loans, eh?

Never mind the ugly fact that some so-called humans would just as soon slaughter "others" in the name of whatever... none of our business, as long as we don't have to see it, or think about it. We will just whine that our pols give us cradle to grave goodies, with no care about fighting, saving, building for the next generation to come along.

Nihilism is us.

 

[brihard]

I said they made significant impact. Not whether that impact was good or not. I'd be the first to volunteer to go overseas to stop another holocaust if I were part of an effort that stood a reasonable chance of doing so. I think the vietnam peace rallies were misguided; particularly those who blamed the troops. (As a 'troop' myself I may be somewhat biased, but so be it). I'm just trying to raise the point that groups of youths can accomplish a lot, be it good or bad- your reaction is proof of that.

 

[housemouse]

Sorry for that last post... I was too harsh.

The problem is that the youth always must be idealistic, and dream about a better world. We elders have lost all illusions, and have learned to spot the opportunistic wolves preying upon the naivete of the young in the herd.

I honestly believe that Bush, inarticulate and flawed as he is, recognizes the truth in Matthew Arnold's poem....

On Dover Beach...

my favorite lines from that

"Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,


Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night."

Here is a link to the full poem.

http://www.gober.net/victorian/dover.html

 

[CanadaSue]

One comment

okay, maybe a few. He MENTIONED the rallies back then had an impact - I'm not sure how he personally FEELS about them - we've never discussed that.

All I ask is that he question, question, question & as far as possible go to source documentation.

Nihilism? Not this brat.

Our youth here barely vote, can't be bothered being concerned about issues & the idea of serving their nation in any capacity leaves most of them cold - it's someone else's job & excuse them - they're on the way to sort out a problem with a government cheque.

This kid is actively working towards getting into policing - TO SERVE & PROTECT & IS currently a member of the military. Technically he can't go anywhere interesting until he turns 18 but I've told him, if that was ever an option with a parent's signature, I'd be hard pressed to say no.

This is his 'gap year'. He's half way through an extra semester at high school, is seeking employment for the second semester & spends a lot of time doing independent learning. He lives in a slightly runfown apartment building, eats pretty basic & we don't own a vehicle. He buys his own toys.

Yeah he's young, we all outgrow that & we change our minds about important matters a lot along the way - often based on out own experiences. He couldn't vote in our election this year but I don't recall him being overly impressed with choices here either. I certainly wasn't.

 

[brihard]

I've personally always preferred 'Invictus'.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit, from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced, nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley



That's from memory. Any mistakes are my own.

 

[nharrold]

Housemouse said it nicley.

You're an intelligent young man, Brihard, one who actually reads, observes, and thinks. The remainder of your generation gives kids like you a bad name... or something like that. Anyway, I'd be glad to have a son like you. Forty years too late for that, though.

Tell you what puzzles me. I just don't understand how half of the American electorate can be so stupid as to fall for that scumbag, Kerry. "whereas Kerry puts on a better face" Hell, Kerry can put on any face he thinks the morons in the audience will fall for. How can people not see him for what he is? I just don't get it.

Not that Bush is much better. In fact, both parties are just big gummint, big brother, tax and spend hypocrites. No real difference between them, except that maybe the Republicans usually kiss you, first... Doesn't really matter which of them wins, except that one will bring this country to its knees a bit faster than will the other.

Americans will surely get the gummint they deserve, either way. Thank God I won't be around to see this country go down the tubes for the final time.

 

[brihard]

We could go into the societal and athropological aspects of why people have become so bloody apathetic, but I haven't been turned into a pessimist yet and don't intend to start tonight. I personally don't fly with bending over for the .gov while happily accepting my welfare cheques, but maybe I'm more ambitious than is the norm.

I guess I'll just make my own way in the world and fix the problems that are within my reach...

Then again, all is not lost. I know a lot of my peers are as smart as I am, just not as politically aware. That will change, with time. I think we still have a few generations left...

 

[dharma]

It was mildly compelling, though I thought some of the rhymes were a bit soggy. However, though he borrows from Leni Riefenstahl, she did a much better job, I thought, on the massed-throng-in-a-stadium trope (true, she had more viewing time to accomplish the job). And, most of it just smells like teen spirit, know what I mean? What do Bush tax cuts have to do with someone getting evicted from her apartment? Half an ounce of critical thinking blows the whole thing out of the water.

But, "when I was a child, I thought as a child". Too many hormones, not enough frontal cortex. Guys like Eminem and Kerry count on that.

 

[Aleph Null]

Too many hormones, not enough frontal cortex. Guys like Eminem and Kerry count on that.

Yep, cause obviously Bush appeals to the intellectual set.

-A0-

 

[Charlie]

Brihard - Sounds like you have your "fecal matter organized". I have two kids. My son is a devout Christian and hates the messages that most of the main stream music folks spout. He does not hate them....just the message. He figured this out on his own. He is 17 and will miss voting in this election by only a few days. I also have a daughter 14 who is getting sucked into the main stream music crap more than I like. I hope and pray she does not join the "dark side". She seems to have it figured out...but is more of a challenge to me than my son.

I am convinced that the kids growing up now have the brains to sort out the BS and will be GREAT citizens of the future. You have complete freedom via the internet to surf porn, download any kind of music you want and sort it out for yourself. My kids think our generation was a bunch of self gratifying losers. I hate to say it......but they are right for the most part.

I grew up with Jim Morrison and stuff like that. I was a maggot infested hippie back in the late 60's and early 70's. Took me awhile, but I grew up. Now I am a proud member of the Great Right Wing Conspiracy. I would be a proud card carrying member if I knew where to get the darn card.

I wish you COULD vote here as you have more fecal matter than most voters I know. No matter how you voted.......you would make a well educated and thought out choice. Good luck to you as you continue to grow mentally and spiritually.

 

[dharma]

Yes, AO, thank you for that incisive, thoughtful commentary. Direct hit, there, big guy. Really told me what for. Uh huh. Really got me. Straightened me out. For sure. Gave me a completely new perspective on things. And right on topic, too.


Sheesh.

 

[brihard]

Thanks, Charlie. I like to think that there are a lot of us who can make the right choice, but only time will tell. Of course we'll make mistakes; but every generation does that, not from any maliciousness, but we'll be as prone to error in our time as everyone else has been. Then agian, society seems to balance itself out for the most part, so hopefully we'll get through. I think there are bigger problems in the world right now than the vagaries of politics, but unfortunately that's the one that manages to become first and foremost in the minds of the masses... Who knows; perhaps our generational apathy towards politics in general will accidentally turn out for the best.

A0, dharma, could we try to keep it on track please? There's enough of that stuff in the other threads. I'd prefer to keep this one open for good discussion, if I may.

 

[housemouse]

Hey, let's not all jump on Brihard, ok... (even though I have my "granny" sneakers on)!

He is just the messenger, telling us "like it is". He doesn't neccessarily subscribe to the nonsense some of his generation do.

All we are trying to do is give Brihard a sense of why we aren't buying what Eminem, Kerry, et all, are selling, even though we sadly understand why so many of his peers are so eager to grab it, hook, line and sinker.

And that is only because we were young once, and also believed. Now we are, sadly, older, know better, wish it weren't the way they pretend it is, and we earnestly wish we could buy the snake oil we easily so easily accepted when we once were young, and thought it should be so easy.

So, the long left-behind, but not forgotten little kid in me wants a Kerry World too... I know better though, that it isn't to be, because it doesn't pass the "history" test.

But, as long as we can forget that the long sad tale of human history on this earth, then we can buy anything that some "sweet talking man comes along singin his song"...

Kerry doesn't even do it with the charm Clinton did....

 

[brihard]

Exactly. 'Telling it like it is' is what I'm after here- jsut give you guys a perspective of how we see it, but in my case without too much buying-in or editorializing. I like to hope I'm doing a decent job of it.

All things notwithstanding, I still think the video in the original post is absolutely excellent...