I have multiple trauma bags (animal and human) and i'm not afraid to use them! LOL!! Former EMT-I here.
And you make my point for me. Thank you.
I have multiple trauma bags (animal and human) and i'm not afraid to use them! LOL!! Former EMT-I here.
Multiple Ekits here too, although mine seems to tends more to the Veterinarian side.
I haven't seen anyone mention the treatment of Rattlesnake bites as a Trauma situation. I have Sawyer Bite and Sting kits and have had to use them. Went to a Rattlesnake Roundup once and every EMT was hovering over the pit with their Sawyer kit in hand. That was 20 years ago. Is there anything better nowdays?
A few years ago at Western PA annual EMS conference, a Doctor from UPMC gave a very good presentation on snake bites, his opinion of the sawyer kit was, throw it in the garbage. About a week ago during an online debate about giving dogs benadryl for snakebite I ran across another article from another doctor that said there might be some benefit if you could use the sawyer kit in the first five minutes, after that waste of time.
Multiple Ekits here too, although mine seems to tends more to the Veterinarian side.
I haven't seen anyone mention the treatment of Rattlesnake bites as a Trauma situation. I have Sawyer Bite and Sting kits and have had to use them. Went to a Rattlesnake Roundup once and every EMT was hovering over the pit with their Sawyer kit in hand. That was 20 years ago. Is there anything better nowdays?
Yeah, and this is one of those things that really concerns me here in the South with all of our different species of poisonous snakes. If the Sawyer kit isn't really that great for treatment, what is?
Here's a good read from Greg Ellifritz on tourniquets.
https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-best-tourniquets-a-research-review
Here are two decent articles from Journal of Emergency Medicine.
https://www.jems.com/articles/print.../assessing-treating-and-preventing-snake.html
https://www.jems.com/articles/2007/03/snakebites.html
Treatment will vary a little depending on if the venom is hemotoxic or neurotoxic.
High level treatment:
"Keep the patient calm and reassured. Have them lie down and remain still and try to restrict overall movement. Monitor airway, breathing, circulation, disability (of nervous system), exposure/environmental control (protect from cold/water) and begin treatment immediately.
Take the patient’s vital signs initially and repeatedly—at least every five minutes. Conserve the victim’s body heat. Also make note as to what first aid has already been attempted or delivered prior to EMS arrival. Protect the injured area and keep it clean and dry, even gently immobilizing the limb to prevent movement and pain. All jewelry or anything on the bitten limb should be removed as soon as possible."
Yep...also just about 8 days ago they released the update with the added TQs
Good break down of the "approved" TQs in this video (5:06 long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viRkIiaKhkY
The list:
Combat Application Tourniquet (CAT) Gen 7
Combat Application Tourniquet (CAT) Gen 6
Ratcheting Medical Tourniquet -Tactical (RMT-T)
SAM Extremity Tourniquet (SAM-XT)
SOF Tactical Tourniquet – Wide (SOFTT-W)
Tactical Mechanical Tourniquet (TMT)
TX2” Tourniquet (TX2)
TX3” Tourniquet (TX3)
PNEUMATIC LIMB TOURNIQUETS:
Emergency & Military Tourniquet (EMT)
Tactical Pneumatic Tourniquet 2” (TPT2)
Is the SWAT-T tourniquet bad? It's not so easy to use as a CAT, but it folds/rolls down small and can be wrapped around a few things to make a decent EDC trauma kit.
From post #11; https://medicalgearoutfitters.com/collections/trauma-kits/products/edc-trauma-kit.
That's my EDC along with a small amount of duct tape for 1-2 improvised chest seals.
Thanks for those links! I read both of them. I guess what I was asking was how to treat snake bites without the use of antivenin or ER visits should we be in a SHTF event? I know that, before antivenin, lots of people died from snake bites, so is death almost a certainty?
The SWAT-T isn't bad, but it takes two hands to use and thus is not preferred for that reason. However, it is preferred for small children and anyone with thin arms. Since I'm more likely to be with children and the elderly than stomping around in the brush carrying a weapon, it's the tourniquet of choice for me.
The SWAT-T isn't bad, but it takes two hands to use and thus is not preferred for that reason. However, it is preferred for small children and anyone with thin arms. Since I'm more likely to be with children and the elderly than stomping around in the brush carrying a weapon, it's the tourniquet of choice for me.
I am aware of two herbalists that have treated poisonous snake bites.
Dr. Patrick Jones, author of The HomeGrown Herbalist, is a veterinarian who has treated poisonous snake bites in his practice.
Sam Coffman, author of The Herbal Medic, served as a medic in the military. He currently runs a clinic and teaches courses in person and online for using herbs. He has also treated snake bites in dogs. As I recall, he wouldn't do it in people for liability reasons, but for himself he'd do it in a heart beat. He has devoted an entire chapter in his book to treating venomous bites.
Both these guys use Echinacea. But Sam has exact detail and other herbs and activated charcoal that he uses.
I posted reviews of both books on my blog. For the Reader's Digest version: Sam's is triple the price at $60, but well worth every penny.
Oh, and as far as the Sawyer snake bite kits are concerned, two ER/survival medicine docs I visited with said they're probably worthless EXCEPT that if the patient believes the kit will work, it will help the patient calm down and slow the heart rate a little. They wouldn't waste time on it, but if you have extra hands and someone else to use it while you do the really important stuff, it wouldn't hurt.
Preferred by whom? Hartford Consensus? College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma? Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care?
Frankly I wouldn't give two squirts for a windless TQ (other than pneumatic), If you are going to spend $25 on a rubber band, spend $29 and get a CAT or SOFTT-Wide.
(snip)
$25 gets the SWAT-T tourniquet, a flat NAR pressure bandage, compressed gauze, and the vasoline dressing (chest seal material). The SWAT-T is about $12 separately. For EDC considerations, it's small when rolled or folded compared to any windlass-type tourniquet. The guy in the video showing how to use the SWAT-T one-handed uses and prefers CATs unless trying to put one in a small pocket. Also, the rubber strip (SWAT-T) works well in pressure bandage (non-tourniquet) situations.
For smaller tourniquets and EDC, there is also the RAT (Rapid Application Tourniquet) which uses a narrow strap and has a pressure/tie-off bar. I recall a video discussing how it might be better for child/dog use since it is narrow; I'll look for it tonight.
https://www.amazon.com/RATS-Rapid-Application-Tourniquet-System/dp/B07CH2Y8WS
$25 gets the SWAT-T tourniquet, a flat NAR pressure bandage, compressed gauze, and the vasoline dressing (chest seal material). The SWAT-T is about $12 separately. For EDC considerations, it's small when rolled or folded compared to any windlass-type tourniquet. The guy in the video showing how to use the SWAT-T one-handed uses and prefers CATs unless trying to put one in a small pocket. Also, the rubber strip (SWAT-T) works well in pressure bandage (non-tourniquet) situations.
For smaller tourniquets and EDC, there is also the RAT (Rapid Application Tourniquet) which uses a narrow strap and has a pressure/tie-off bar. I recall a video discussing how it might be better for child/dog use since it is narrow; I'll look for it tonight.
https://www.amazon.com/RATS-Rapid-Application-Tourniquet-System/dp/B07CH2Y8WS
Preferred by whom? Hartford Consensus? College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma? Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care?
Frankly I wouldn't give two squirts for a windless TQ (other than pneumatic), If you are going to spend $25 on a rubber band, spend $29 and get a CAT or SOFTT-Wide.
Thanks for the article link. I found it informative.
When selecting medical equipment and supplies, I prefer to go with what I can actually use, and what physicians I trust have suggested. Both were ER docs. One was attached to a Special Forces unit, and the other was currently practicing as a family physician. And both said the SWAT-T was just fine. In a mass casualty situation with small children, a SWAT-T might be even better, because it could be cut in half to save two children. In my particular situation, I do not have the finger strength to use a CAT or SOFT type tourniquet. At my age, nothing is going to change that.
Some people will stand on principles and only use one brand. Some choose to work with the tools they can manage. A SWAT-T is a perfectly acceptable choice. No, it wouldn't be my first choice in battle and in dealing with adult males. But in all likelihood, I won't be dealing with either. It only makes sense to prepare for what is most likely first.
The Rat is a controversial tourniquet. Many don't like it because it takes a little longer to apply and does not close and lock securely. It's a stretchy tube with a catch notch.
Everybody has boo-boo kits in their BOBs.
DH and DS carry IFAKs when they go shooting. If they're carrying a firearm, they're carrying an IFAK, including a tourniquet.
We pack the advanced kit when we go to outdoor 3-D archery tournaments. It stays in the truck. We carry a modified boo-boo kit as we walk the course.
The advanced medical kit is kept in the house and ready to go with us to evacuate. We use it all the time, mostly for the animals. It keeps us familiar with where everything is.
We are not stopping to render aid on road in all likelihood. People are too crazy and I usually have my daughters with me.
We are also 30 minutes at best from a hospital. Ambulances are usually at least 20 minutes out. If someone's at the top of our property, that's at least another 15 minutes tacked on, but for a major injury, like we'd call an ambulance for, it's probably another 30-45 minutes. (It's very steep, rugged terrain.)
So we've taken some off-grid medicine courses (me--3, DD--2, DH--1). No, they do not make us doctors or nurses or EMTs. But as the docs teaching the classes and the doctor-authors of off-grid medicine books point out, most of what we're going to see post-TEOTWAWKI is within our ability to manage with some basic training and practice. Do I want to deal with a pneumothorax? No! But if it happened to my husband or so at the top of our property (and no, there's no place a helicopter could land, either) and only other option is death, I'll do it.
The docs all say that tampons and napkins are great for absorbing blood and maybe work as a pressure dressing for a minor wound. But they're likely not going to work for major bleeding. However, you use what you've got.
We know (or knew) how to use most of the stuff we have, but not all. We also stockpile things we aren't skilled enough to use, but which a physician might use for our family post-collapse. Better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
Reasonable Rascal is one of several authors of a good survival medicine book. You can download it and print it for free.
Survival and Austere Medicine, 3rd Edition
Thank you and a special thanks to Reasonable Rascal for a most excellent book.
UPDATED 06 MAY 2019 based on the recent CoTCCC review and recommendations of limb tourniquets.
Specifically this document covers:
Tourniquets (Non-Pneumatic)
Tourniquets (Pneumatic)
Hemostatics
Junctional Tourniquets
Airway Management Devices
I carry the basics.
Bandaids, tribiotic, 4x4s, tape, alcohol pads, quick clot powder...need to replace my QC bandages that got used.
Army combat bandages.
Suture kit & clean syringes.
Vet wrap, gloves & other standard this-n-thats.
Really need to inventory, restock & replace dated stuff.
That is a BIG no no and VERY BAD IDEA. Tampons and their ilk are designed to absorb blood and will take longer to clot.
I don't own a RAT and had not planned to buy one. Also won't bother trying to find video about it tonight. That should have been a clue when medical gear outfitters didn't list them anymore. Had to go to amazon to find a RAT to link.
Where should I begin my local search for civilian trauma training? SE Virginia
Might I point out that some time back there was talk of using a stun gun to electrically decompose the venom. I think that had been tossed out by now.