CORONA Main Coronavirus thread
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Heliobas Disciple
TB Fanatic
New data from China buttress fears about high coronavirus fatality rate, WHO expert says
A WHO expert who visited China said he did not see evidence that a large number of mild #coronavirus cases are evading detection, meaning its lethality has likely not been exaggerated.
www.statnews.com
New data from China buttress fears about high coronavirus fatality rate, WHO expert says
By Helen Branswell
February 25, 2020
One of the hopes of people watching China’s coronavirus outbreak was that the alarming picture of its lethality is probably exaggerated because a lot of mild cases are likely being missed.
But on Tuesday, a World Health Organization expert suggested that does not appear to be the case. Bruce Aylward, who led an international mission to China to learn about the virus and China’s response, said the specialists did not see evidence that a large number of mild cases of the novel disease called Covid-19 are evading detection.
“So I know everybody’s been out there saying, ‘Whoa, this thing is spreading everywhere and we just can’t see it, tip of the iceberg.’ But the data that we do have don’t support that,” Aylward said during a briefing for journalists at WHO’s Geneva headquarters.
Getting a handle on how many people have actually been infected is crucial to assessing how dangerous this virus is. During the early days of an explosive outbreak with a new pathogen, it is hugely challenging to look beyond the people streaming into hospitals for care to see whether there are many more at home with a mild cold or manageable flu-like illness.
If large numbers of mild or virtually symptom-free cases are evading detection, that would suggest that estimates of the proportion of people who might end up in ICUs or might die during a Covid-19 epidemic would be lower than what has been seen to date in China.
But if there aren’t large numbers of uncounted cases, the severity seen in China is what the rest of the world should expect as the virus moves to new locations, especially if it spreads to the degree seen in Hubei province, where the outbreak began.
“What [the data] support is that sure, there may be a few asymptomatic cases … but there’s probably not huge transmission beyond what you can actually see clinically,” Aylward said.
The claim was quickly challenged by an infectious diseases expert who serves on a committee that advises the WHO’s health emergencies program.
Gary Kobinger, director of the Infectious Disease Research Center at Laval University in Quebec, said it would be highly unusual for there not to be mild or symptom-free cases that are being missed. He pointed to the fact that outbreaks have popped up in countries far from China — including Iran and Italy — because people with mild infections were not detected and traveled to other places.
“There are mild cases that are undetected. This is why it’s spreading. Otherwise it would not be spreading because we would know where those cases are and they would be contained and that would be the end of it,” said Kobinger, who insisted that mild, undetected infections cannot be ruled out until people who haven’t been diagnosed with the illness can be tested for antibodies to the virus.
Those kinds of tests, called serology tests, are just becoming available in China, Aylward said.
“As long as we do not have good serology data, I think that it is completely speculative to say that there are no undetected cases,” Kobinger said.
Aylward pointed to an analysis from Guangdong province suggesting that, at least there, most of the infections were coming to the attention of health authorities.
When the virus started to spread in Guangdong — the province where the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak began — worried people flooded fever clinics to be tested. Of 320,000 tests performed, just under 0.5% were positive for the virus at the peak of transmission there, he said — which suggests that only 1 case out of 200 was being missed.
Transmission of the virus has subsided in Guangdong, and the number of positive tests at the fever clinics has declined; now only about 1 in 5,000 people tested at the fever clinics is positive for the virus, he said.
Aylward said that across China, about 80% of cases are mild, about 14% are severe, and about 6% become critically ill. The case fatality rate — the percentage of known infected people who die — is between 2% and 4% in Hubei province, and 0.7% in other parts of China, he said.
The lower rate outside of Hubei is likely due to the draconian social distancing measures China has put in place to try to slow spread of the virus. Other parts of China have not had the huge explosion of cases seen in Hubei, Aylward said.
A case fatality rate of between 2% to 4% rivals and even exceeds that of the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, which is estimated to have killed upwards of 50 million people. Even a case fatality rate of 0.7% — which means 7 out of every 1,000 infected people would die — is sobering. It is seven times the fatality rate for seasonal flu, which is estimated to kill between 290,000 and 650,000 people a year globally.
Heliobas Disciple
TB Fanatic
He was the only one saying that. There are no articles or other sources backing up his statement (that I could find or that others on twitter could find) so I don't know how much credence to give his comment. ymmv.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
And what the CFR will look like as medical facilities are overwhelmed? The CFR in that chart is best case scenario with medical not overwhelmed and having available medications. A genuine global pandemic with swamped hospitals and little resupply of medications and supplies will make the CFR 10X worse than the numbers off that chart as it is in China. And even if it doesn’t get that bad over here medically the supply chain breaking due to China shutting down is going to hurt bad regardless.
Swamp Wallaby
International Observer
Trump puts Pence in charge of US virus response – as it happened
Saudi Arabia bans religious tourists from entering country as WHO says virus now spreading faster outside China than in it.
www.theguardian.com
Heliobas Disciple
TB Fanatic
I do have an alternative theory if it does end up being true. And that would be that the Chinese never gave an accurate genome sequence to hide elements they didn't want to share with the rest of the world and the Iran sequence is the true and accurate Chinese one.
But for now, I think the CNBC guest misspoke or misunderstood what he was told.
HD
Hfcomms
EN66iq
2 lbs of L-ascorbic acid powder for $20 and is what I use. Either use a micro scale to weigh it out or I use a teaspoon full a day which is about 3 grams.
Amazon.com: Duda Energy asc2 Bag of L-Ascorbic Acid Powder, 2 lb, 99+% Food Grade USP36/BP2012 Naturally Fermented Pure White Crystals Form of Vitamin C: Industrial & Scientific
Buy Duda Energy asc2 Bag of L-Ascorbic Acid Powder, 2 lb, 99+% Food Grade USP36/BP2012 Naturally Fermented Pure White Crystals Form of Vitamin C: Vitamin C - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
Smoke has been used for thousands of years to inhibit germ growth on animal flesh and preserve it. RIGHT?? If smoke inhibits germ growth there what makes anyone think it would not inhibit virus/bacterial growth in smokers lungs?
Prevalence of tobacco use - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This is a list of countries by annual per capita consumption of tobacco cigarettes. Cigarettes are smoked by over 1 billion people, which is nearly 20% of the world's population in 2014. About 800 million of these smokers are men.
While smoking rates have leveled off or declined in developed nations, especially among men, in developing nations tobacco consumption continues to rise. More than 80% of all smokers now live in countries with low or middle incomes, and 60% in just 10 countries, a list headed by China.[1] China is the world's most populated country, and is also the leading country in the cigarette industry. In 2014, China produced and consumed more than 30% of the cigarettes in the world. There is a strong relationship between socioeconomic status (SES) and smoking behaviors. According to research, developing countries have the highest rate of tobacco use. “China was found to be one of the countries with the highest male-to-female ratio of smoking prevalence”: 74% of males and 8% of females were smokers.[2] Over half of adult males in Indonesia are smokers (57%, but mostly kretek, a local form of cigarette) and China (53% estimated), and nearly half in Bangladesh, though for women the figure is much lower.[3]
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It appears that smoking adds to the instance of where the infected are more likely to become more ill especially in China.... Living conditions also impact infections....
This will extrapolate across the world in countries with high rates of smoking such as Italy, N & S Korea, Japan and Iran.... American consumption of cigarettes is fairly low compared to other countries....
Deaths appear to be related to the elderly and those that have compromised health....
If you are not elderly or have compromised health or smoke cigs, you chances of surviving the virus is high especially if you isolate from the general public and do not go out....
Just my thoughts....
Texican....
bw
Fringe Ranger
Try evaporated milk. Tastes better and stores longer. A case of 24 12-oz is six gallons.
marsh
On TB every waking moment
Well I just checked off medical top off stuff with an online order. (Yeah SS check!) Tomorrow will be groceries. I bought new UV elements and filters for the germguard units I bought for Ebola. Gettin 'er done.
re's another video by Dr. Mike Hansen calling it a pandemic
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h_MWGPOyOE
11:02 min
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Pandemic
Interesting discussion about drug treatments. Apparently two high blood pressure meds have been found to be effective in blocking the ACE-2 receptor so the virus can't attach
re's another video by Dr. Mike Hansen calling it a pandemic
11:02 min
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Pandemic
Interesting discussion about drug treatments. Apparently two high blood pressure meds have been found to be effective in blocking the ACE-2 receptor so the virus can't attach
Swamp Wallaby
International Observer
Nineteen dead, 139 infected with coronavirus in Iran - health ministry spokesman
DUBAI, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Nineteen people have died and 139 people have been infected by coronavirus in Iran, health ministry spokesman Kianush Jahanpur said on Wednesday in an announcement on state TV.
Iran has had the highest number of deaths from coronavirus outside China, where the virus emerged in late 2019.
www.reuters.com
DUBAI, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Nineteen people have died and 139 people have been infected by coronavirus in Iran, health ministry spokesman Kianush Jahanpur said on Wednesday in an announcement on state TV.
Iran has had the highest number of deaths from coronavirus outside China, where the virus emerged in late 2019.
Nineteen dead, 139 infected with coronavirus in Iran - health ministry spokesman
Nineteen people have died and 139 people have been infected by coronavirus in Iran, health ministry spokesman Kianush Jahanpur said on Wednesday in an announcement on state TV.
www.reuters.com
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
Has anyone suggested that this test may be functioning like a TB TEST. Once you test positive you THEREAFTER ALWAYS TEST POSITIVE FOR TB, even if you no longer have active TB.14% of Recovered Covid-19 Patients in Guangdong Tested Positive Again
By Li Liuqian, Huang Shulun and Han Wei
Guangdong health authority found 14% of recovered coronavirus patients tested positive again in later check-ups. Photo: Bloomberg
About 14% of patients who recovered from the novel coronavirus and were discharged from hospitals in southern China’s Guangdong province were tested positive again in later check-ups, according to the local health authority. A positive test suggests the recovered patients may still carry the virus, adding complexity to efforts to control the outbreak.
There is no clear conclusion on why it happens and whether such patients could still be infectious, said Song Tie, deputy director of the Guangdong Center of Disease Control And Prevention (Guangdong CDC), at a Tuesday briefing.
According to the preliminary assessment, experts believed the patients are still recovering from lung infections and have yet to be fully healthy, according to Song.
According to the latest treatment guidelines for the Covid-19 issued by the National Health Commission, patients can be considered recovered and released from hospital when their throat or nose swabs show up negative in two consecutive tests, with a CT scan indicating no lung lesions, and when they have no obvious symptoms such as fever.
The guidelines suggest recovered patients should monitor their health and limit outdoor activities for two weeks after leaving the hospital, and check in for retesting in following weeks.
Some patients’ test results returned to positive in the follow-up checks, said Li Yueping, director of the intensive care unit at Guangzhou No.8 People's Hospital at the briefing.
Read more
Caixin’s coverage of the new coronavirus
The No.8 People's Hospital has found 13 discharged patients that tested positive again, although none showed renewed symptoms, according to Li. Nucleic acid tests for 104 close contacts of the patients all found negative results, said Li.
Cai Weiping, director of the Infectious Diseases Division of the No.8 People's Hospital, told Caixin that the positive results in the recovered patients were all found from anal swabs, a method rarely used in other parts of the country. Their results were in the “weak positive” range, said Cai.
The national treatment guideline only requires tests from throat or nose swabs for suspected patients as the virus is believed to spread mainly via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. But research by Guangzhou Medical University found the virus in fecal samples, suggesting a new path of transmission. Some hospitals in Guangdong have since adopted the anal swab in virus tests.
Cai said it is still unclear whether the virus detected in the recovered patients is still active. There is also the possibility of a discrepancy in samples, he said.
Song at Guangdong CDC said the province is preparing to put those recovered patients who re-tested positive under concentrated observation. Health authorities will also step up monitoring of discharged patients and their condition as they recover, said Song.
By the end of Monday, Guangdong reported 1,347 infections and 805 recoveries. The death toll reached seven, official data showed.
Similar cases of recovered patients testing positive have been reported elsewhere in China.
Last week, a patient initially discharged after recovering in southwestern Sichuan province’s Chengdu city was readmitted after testing positive again in later check-ups.
Health authorities in the southern island province of Hainan also confirmed that some recovered patients had tested positive again. The authorities required discharged patients to stay home under quarantine for 14 days, and allowed them to be released after both throat and anal swab tests showed negative.
Contact reporter Han Wei (weihan@caixin.com)
====14% of Recovered Covid-19 Patients in Guangdong Tested Positive Again - Caixin Global
14% of Recovered Covid-19 Patients in Guangdong Tested Positive Again - Unclear whether recovered patients who test positive remain infectious; none showed renewed symptoms, and none of their contacts tested positive for the viruswww.caixinglobal.com
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marsh
On TB every waking moment
7:52 min
Channel 4 news
The coronavirus conspiracy: is there a cover-up in China?
marsh
On TB every waking moment
11:04 min
BBC 2/26/2020
Coronavirus: the Economic Impact - BBC News
Hfcomms
EN66iq
In spades! This virus can be transmitted thru fomites (surface contamination), droplets, aerosol, the fecal-oral route and now thru urine possible. It appears thru limited data that the most efficient mode of transmission is the fecal-oral route. The country’s where this is taking off the fastest use squat toilets without paper and no hand washings. Squatting over an open hole generates a lot of aerosol and appears the highest viral load is in the feces.
Countries with poor sanitation and areas of homeless in developed countries with a lot of homeless and indigents will most likely have the most victims. Whereas you can catch the virus thru other routes basic hygiene will lower your chances quite dramatically in catching this bug imo.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
He is a licensed Physician Assistant and is generously sharing his knowledge with us. He isn’t asking you to make life/death decisions based on his advise as you are not a patient under his care and he doesn’t have time to provide for you all the ‘facts’ you seem to want and for what it’s worth he doesn’t owe you squat. You do the research, you make your own decisions and you decide what is right for you and you shouldn’t be so demanding and ungrateful.
Vegas321
Live free and survive
Or... you always carry the Virus, and can activate again, and again. And could be more deadly with the next re-activation. Many Viruses can, and do, re-activate. Could be a killer, that attacks anytime. And, when re-activates, makes you a spreader again. Or you could always will be a spreader!
This is not out of the whelm of possibility's. This could be a perfect engendered virus. That never goes away.
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--it was most definitely sounds of FEAR and DESPAIR---not singing, and not encouragement.
Like I said, like the 9th level of
Like I said, like the 9th level of
“I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue”
Vegas321
Live free and survive
So we can expect a bunch of people who flew from Israel, into LA, with this attendant, to start showing symptom's any day now? In the meantime, they are actively spreading around LA, and parts of the SW, being asymptomatic.More
Korean flight attendant who was in Israel, LA tests positive for coronavirus
Diagnosis adds weight to possibility that group of South Korean tourists may already have been infected when they were in Israelwww.timesofisrael.com
Korean flight attendant who was in Israel, LA tests positive for coronavirus
Diagnosis adds weight to possibility that group of South Korean tourists may already have been infected when they were in Israel
By TOI staff
25 February 2020, 4:45 pm
A Korean Air flight attendant who recently visited Israel and the United States has tested positive for COVID-19, South Korean media reported Tuesday.
The cabin crew member flew to Ben Gurion Airport aboard the flight that brought some 200 South Korean pilgrims to Israel, many of whom were later confirmed to have the virus.
The flight attendant’s diagnosis adds weight to the possibility the group may already have been infected when they were in Israel, although the incidents could be separate.
After leaving Israel on February 16, the flight attendant then flew to Los Angeles and back to Seoul’s Incheon Airport on February 21, before being diagnosed with the coronavirus and entering quarantine, according to the wow.co.kr news website.
Korean Air announced that a member of its flight crew had tested positive for the virus, but did not give any further details on the employee’s travel itinerary, Reuters reported.
South Korea announced Tuesday it had 977 cases of coronavirus and 11 deaths — the largest official national total outside China.
The Foreign Ministry on Sunday urged Israelis not to visit Japan and South Korea over fears of exposure to the COVID-19 virus, also recommending that Israelis currently in South Korea consider leaving the country.
South Korean visitors left Israel en masse on Sunday amid coronavirus concerns after the number of cases mounted in their home country and a day after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered that all South Koreans in Israel be quickly flown out of the country.
On Saturday the Health Ministry said the group of South Korean pilgrims recently in Israel had tested positive for the coronavirus, sending hundreds of Israelis who were in proximity to the travelers into home quarantine. Some 200 Israeli students and teachers were instructed to enter isolation due to being in several tourist sites at the same time as the group.
The South Korean tourists were diagnosed upon returning home. According to Seoul, 29 of the tourists tested positive for the virus.
The Israel Airport Authority (IAA) said in a statement Monday morning that 622 Korean nationals had left the country since Sunday night, and that between 800 and 900 still remained in the country.
Many have arrived at Ben Gurion Airport, where they were forced to spend the night after they were rejected by hotels and by residents of a settlement near Jerusalem where they were supposed to be quarantined on an adjacent army base.
Israel has banned all foreign nationals who have been to South Korea and Japan in the past 14 days from entering the country. Israel is also denying entry to visitors from China, Hong Kong, Macau, Thailand and Singapore, and is apparently the only country to have taken such drastic steps so far to contain the virus.
Israeli citizens returning from South Korea and Japan or who were there in the last 14 days must quarantine themselves at home for two weeks upon their return, the ministry said.
Israel on Monday issued a travel advisory for Italy, due to a surge of coronavirus cases there.
Tom McDowell
BAMN
1m ago 11:38
Gwyneth Paltrow has shared a photograph of herself with a mask covering her mouth as she travelled to Paris.
The actress - who starred in the 2011 thriller Contagion, about a deadly virus that swept the world - wrote on Instagram: “En route to Paris. Paranoid? Prudent? Panicked? Placid? Pandemic? Propaganda? Paltrow’s just going to go ahead and sleep with this thing on the plane.
“I’ve already been in this movie. Stay safe. Don’t shake hands. Wash hands frequently.”
View this post on Instagram
En route to Paris. Paranoid? Prudent? Panicked? Placid? Pandemic? Propaganda? Paltrow’s just going to go ahead and sleep with this thing on the plane. I’ve already been in this movie. Stay safe. Don’t shake hands. Wash hands frequently.
A post shared by Gwyneth Paltrow (@gwynethpaltrow) on Feb 26, 2020 at 2:59am PST
===
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Gwyneth Paltrow has shared a photograph of herself with a mask covering her mouth as she travelled to Paris.
The actress - who starred in the 2011 thriller Contagion, about a deadly virus that swept the world - wrote on Instagram: “En route to Paris. Paranoid? Prudent? Panicked? Placid? Pandemic? Propaganda? Paltrow’s just going to go ahead and sleep with this thing on the plane.
“I’ve already been in this movie. Stay safe. Don’t shake hands. Wash hands frequently.”
View this post on Instagram
En route to Paris. Paranoid? Prudent? Panicked? Placid? Pandemic? Propaganda? Paltrow’s just going to go ahead and sleep with this thing on the plane. I’ve already been in this movie. Stay safe. Don’t shake hands. Wash hands frequently.
A post shared by Gwyneth Paltrow (@gwynethpaltrow) on Feb 26, 2020 at 2:59am PST
===
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marsh
On TB every waking moment
44:21 min
White House coronavirus task force holds a briefing on the outbreak – 2/25/2020
Taking laps for our low case counts compared to community spread in other countries
HaHaHa medical people are so fed up with the testing boodoggle that they are cheering for a commercially developed test that works and that is not limited to use on China travel.
Doing a quick two step to walk back the comments at the CDC meeting today. She was not telling anyone to actually do anything to prepare. It was more or less just a visioning exercise as to what community mitigation efforts could be taken if there was ever a local spread. But there is still low risk to the American people.
Yawn American sheeple, go back to sleep.
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Tom McDowell
BAMN
18m ago 11:33
Brazil "confirms first coronavirus infection in Latin America"
A Brazilian government test has confirmed the first case of a fast-spreading new coronavirus in Latin America, a source told Reuters on Wednesday.
Brazil’s Health Ministry declined to comment on the result of the test ahead of a news conference at 11 a.m. local time (1400 GMT), the agency reported.
The person familiar with the matter spoke on condition of anonymity because the results were not yet public.
www.theguardian.com
===
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Brazil "confirms first coronavirus infection in Latin America"
A Brazilian government test has confirmed the first case of a fast-spreading new coronavirus in Latin America, a source told Reuters on Wednesday.
Brazil’s Health Ministry declined to comment on the result of the test ahead of a news conference at 11 a.m. local time (1400 GMT), the agency reported.
The person familiar with the matter spoke on condition of anonymity because the results were not yet public.
Trump puts Pence in charge of US virus response – as it happened
Saudi Arabia bans religious tourists from entering country as WHO says virus now spreading faster outside China than in it.
www.theguardian.com
.
bw
Fringe Ranger
It is not inconceivable that an emergency law will be passed forbidding any independent testing. Remember, the goal is to hide the truth in order to calm the herd. The fact that the goal is unattainable will not stop the government from trying.
Tom McDowell
BAMN
6m ago 12:13
Peter Beaumont
French authorities are urgently trying to trace the source of the coronavirus infection that claimed the life of a 60 year old French citizen who died over night in the Pitié-Salpêtrière hospital in Paris as five new infections were reported in the country.
According to officials the individual had travelled to neither China or northern Italy.
The French fatality was identified as a teacher from L’Oise region in northern France who suffered a massive pulmonary embolism as the result of the virus. The teacher is the second infection identified in the L’Oise region.
www.theguardian.com
===
.
Peter Beaumont
French authorities are urgently trying to trace the source of the coronavirus infection that claimed the life of a 60 year old French citizen who died over night in the Pitié-Salpêtrière hospital in Paris as five new infections were reported in the country.
According to officials the individual had travelled to neither China or northern Italy.
The French fatality was identified as a teacher from L’Oise region in northern France who suffered a massive pulmonary embolism as the result of the virus. The teacher is the second infection identified in the L’Oise region.
Trump puts Pence in charge of US virus response – as it happened
Saudi Arabia bans religious tourists from entering country as WHO says virus now spreading faster outside China than in it.
www.theguardian.com
.
momengineer
Senior Member
[sorry-duplicate—delete
Tom McDowell
BAMN
Coronavirus Tuesday Update: U.S. Health Official Warns of Bigger Outbreak, China Offers More Credit Support to Businesses - Caixin Global
Coronavirus Tuesday Update: U.S. Health Official Warns of Bigger Outbreak, China Offers More Credit Support to Businesses
www.caixinglobal.com
Tom McDowell
BAMN
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Just landed. India was great, trip very successful. Heading to the White House. Meetings and calls scheduled today. @CDCgov
, @SecAzar
and all doing a great job with respect to Coronavirus! Briefing this afternoon.
4:39 AM · Feb 26, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
View: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1232631333408649216
===
.
@realDonaldTrump
Just landed. India was great, trip very successful. Heading to the White House. Meetings and calls scheduled today. @CDCgov
, @SecAzar
and all doing a great job with respect to Coronavirus! Briefing this afternoon.
4:39 AM · Feb 26, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
View: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1232631333408649216
===
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Capt. Eddie
Veteran Member
PLEASE let's not start sniping at each other.
By definition an "opinion" is just that, an OPINION. If it were a "fact" it would be called a FACT, something the entire world is very short on in this case.
If you disagree with someone's opinion, please just ignore it or state your own contradictory OPINION. Others on the board may value one or the other or perhaps both, but PLEASE let's not stifle the free flow of OPINION on here, it's really kind of a critical time.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Those plans for post-nuclear tax collection were in a pamphlet that was included in the piles of paperwork going back to the 1930s that the HHS section of the Old Federal Building had and that I was one of the people charged with going through it before it was either shredded or sent to some archive somewhere.
I don't think it was a "secret" pamphlet but it was aimed at agency personnel rather than the general public, I don't think it was classified.
Other stuff I went over was the original paperwork instructions for social security (widows and orphans) and the pay scales for GOVERNMENT PROVIDED DAYCARE for Rosey the Riveter in the factories building military stuff during WWII.
Rosy's Day Care was a GS 1 or GS 2 level clerk with all Federal pay and benefits of the time period.
Oh, and comment on the "socialized" health care thing, real pandemic triage protocols for managing pandemics are a lot more draconian than "rationing" in any system (done by government or insurance company).
I also point out that while it is likely to spread, the UK has done a pretty good job so far keeping a lid on things but then no one is afraid of going bankrupt because they report to their ER or GP with symptoms (unless they are bankrupted by being in quarantine but the health care costs are pre-paid via taxes).
You pay for things one way or you pay for them another and I suspect the USA is about to find out just how well a totally wonky system with no backups for the working poor and even lower-middle-class is going to hold up if a real pandemic hits.
We are already starting to see the "who pays" issues coming up with the Federal Governments vs. the States Vs. the Counties when it comes to quarantined people.
And unlike cancer treatments, this is one where just throwing people back into the parking lot because they can't pay will doesn't just hurt the person with the illness, they can then spread it on to everyone including the hospital administrator and the CEO of the insurance company.
Jubilee on Earth
Veteran Member
The restrictions have worked to some degree, scientists say. “If we had not put a travel restriction on, we would have had many, many, many more travel-related cases than we have,” says Anthony Fauci, who heads the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
doi:10.1126/science.abb4604
posted for fair use
Science | AAAS
www.sciencemag.org
How would they even know?? They’re not even testing unless you meet very specific criteria. The US still has only tested under 500 people, which is a fraction of what other countries have tested. Shame on them for making these kind of vain, misleading statements.
Tom McDowell
BAMN
First Covid-19 case in Brazil, if confirmed by a second test.
“Brazil's Health Ministry said a man has tested positive for the coronavirus on in initial test. If it's confirmed in a second test, it will be the first case in South America.”
“First case of COVID-19 in Brazil is registered in the state of São Paulo: 61-year-old patient returned from a trip to Italy on February 21”
https://saude.estadao.com.br/notici...te-para-confirmar-diagnostico,70003210088.amp
===
now confirmed?
===
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“Brazil's Health Ministry said a man has tested positive for the coronavirus on in initial test. If it's confirmed in a second test, it will be the first case in South America.”
“First case of COVID-19 in Brazil is registered in the state of São Paulo: 61-year-old patient returned from a trip to Italy on February 21”
https://saude.estadao.com.br/notici...te-para-confirmar-diagnostico,70003210088.amp
===
now confirmed?
===
.
Tom McDowell
BAMN
Health examines several Valencia fans for possible coronavirus symptoms
The Valencian team played last week in Bergamo against Atalanta in the Champions League and 2,500 followers traveled
Valencia 25 FEB 2020 - 17:47 CET
Coronavirus
Valencia fans in the match against Atalanta. GETTY
The Deputy Director General of Epidemiology, Health Surveillance and Environmental Health of the Valencian Community, Hermenelinda Vanaclocha, appeared Tuesday at a press conference to warn that there are "three or four" fans of Valencia who remain in their homes as a protocol measure of prevention, since they have symptoms similar to coronavirus. The fans are part of the group of about 2,500 Valencia fans (2,300 bought the ticket at the Mestalla box office) that moved to Milan last week to witness the first leg of the round of 16 in San Siro Stadium. the Champions League that faced Atalanta and Valencia (4-1). These followers traveled, therefore, to an area that is now under the control of the Italian health authorities due to the registered cases of coronavirus.
Valencia fans, allegedly affected by the virus, contacted 112 following the guidelines provided on Monday by the Department of Health and the club to warn fans to notify the doctor at the time they noticed any symptoms, after the cases registered in Milan. All Valencians who traveled by plane to witness the match were taken the temperature upon arrival at the different airports of the Lombard capital but not at the exit.
“I imagine there will be three or four people. The first thing we are going to do is talk to them. They will be made an epidemiological survey to assess how many days they were in Milan, when the symptoms occurred and what they are. And according to that survey we will see if it is necessary or not to take any sample to investigate if they really were cases of coronavirus or another type of flu or disease. They are still being valued, ”explained Hermelinda Vanaclocha.
Vanaclocha has also reported that two other cases of coronavirus are investigated in the Valencian Community. The two affected, both men, have recently been in Milan but did not attend the football game. One is admitted to the Doctor Peset Aleixandre University Hospital in Valencia and the other to the La Plana University Hospital in Vila-real.
“I imagine there will be three or four people. The first thing we are going to do is talk to them. They will be made an epidemiological survey to assess how many days they were in Milan, when the symptoms occurred and what they are. And according to that survey we will see if it is necessary or not to take any sample to investigate if they really were cases of coronavirus or another type of flu or disease. They are still being valued, ”explained Hermelinda Vanaclocha.
Vanaclocha has also reported that two other cases of coronavirus are investigated in the Valencian Community. The two affected, both men, have recently been in Milan but did not attend the football game. One is admitted to the Doctor Peset Aleixandre University Hospital in Valencia and the other to the La Plana University Hospital in Vila-real.
elpais.com
Via Dr Niman Croatia COVID Cluster Linked To Atalanta Valencia Champions League Match Grows
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Which has me wondering if we'll start to see cancellations of sports events - March Madness?
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The Valencian team played last week in Bergamo against Atalanta in the Champions League and 2,500 followers traveled
Valencia 25 FEB 2020 - 17:47 CET
Coronavirus
Valencia fans in the match against Atalanta. GETTY
The Deputy Director General of Epidemiology, Health Surveillance and Environmental Health of the Valencian Community, Hermenelinda Vanaclocha, appeared Tuesday at a press conference to warn that there are "three or four" fans of Valencia who remain in their homes as a protocol measure of prevention, since they have symptoms similar to coronavirus. The fans are part of the group of about 2,500 Valencia fans (2,300 bought the ticket at the Mestalla box office) that moved to Milan last week to witness the first leg of the round of 16 in San Siro Stadium. the Champions League that faced Atalanta and Valencia (4-1). These followers traveled, therefore, to an area that is now under the control of the Italian health authorities due to the registered cases of coronavirus.
Valencia fans, allegedly affected by the virus, contacted 112 following the guidelines provided on Monday by the Department of Health and the club to warn fans to notify the doctor at the time they noticed any symptoms, after the cases registered in Milan. All Valencians who traveled by plane to witness the match were taken the temperature upon arrival at the different airports of the Lombard capital but not at the exit.
“I imagine there will be three or four people. The first thing we are going to do is talk to them. They will be made an epidemiological survey to assess how many days they were in Milan, when the symptoms occurred and what they are. And according to that survey we will see if it is necessary or not to take any sample to investigate if they really were cases of coronavirus or another type of flu or disease. They are still being valued, ”explained Hermelinda Vanaclocha.
Vanaclocha has also reported that two other cases of coronavirus are investigated in the Valencian Community. The two affected, both men, have recently been in Milan but did not attend the football game. One is admitted to the Doctor Peset Aleixandre University Hospital in Valencia and the other to the La Plana University Hospital in Vila-real.
“I imagine there will be three or four people. The first thing we are going to do is talk to them. They will be made an epidemiological survey to assess how many days they were in Milan, when the symptoms occurred and what they are. And according to that survey we will see if it is necessary or not to take any sample to investigate if they really were cases of coronavirus or another type of flu or disease. They are still being valued, ”explained Hermelinda Vanaclocha.
Vanaclocha has also reported that two other cases of coronavirus are investigated in the Valencian Community. The two affected, both men, have recently been in Milan but did not attend the football game. One is admitted to the Doctor Peset Aleixandre University Hospital in Valencia and the other to the La Plana University Hospital in Vila-real.
Sanidad examina a varios aficionados del Valencia por posibles síntomas de coronavirus
El conjunto valenciano jugó la semana pasada en Bérgamo ante el Atalanta en la Champions y viajaron 2.500 seguidores
elpais.com
Via Dr Niman Croatia COVID Cluster Linked To Atalanta Valencia Champions League Match Grows
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Which has me wondering if we'll start to see cancellations of sports events - March Madness?
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Jubilee on Earth
Veteran Member
Kate Hudson just did the same last night. Celebrities are starting to get in on the gig.
SmithJ
Veteran Member
This has to end now. This should be the first thing Pres Trump and his team take care of. If people are charged these insane amounts to get a COVID test, no one will go in to get tested.
Man receives $3,500 medical bill for coronavirus test after returning to US from China
Osmel Martinez Azcue only has the flu, but he now owes his insurance $1,400www.independent.co.uk
Coronavirus: Man receives $3,500 medical bill for test after returning to US from China
Osmel Martinez Azcue only has the flu, but he now owes his insurance $1,400
Danielle Zoellner
New York 11 hours ago
A Miami man has received a nearly $3,500 medical bill after getting coronavirus tests following his trip to China.
Osmel Martinez Azcue returned from a work trip last month to China and discovered he was feeling flu-like symptoms. Worried about the coronavirus, the man decided to go to a Florida hospital to get tested, according to the Miami Herald.
Testing revealed Mr Azcue had the flu, not the coronavirus. But his limited health insurance left him with a bill of $3,270 two weeks after his test. He will be responsible for $1,400 of that bill.
"How can they expect normal citizens to contribute to eliminating the potential risk of person-to-person spread if hospitals are waiting to charge us $3,270 for a simple blood test and a nasal swab?" Mr Azcue told the newspaper.
Mr Azcue previously had insurance through the Affordable Care Act. He picked that insurance as he makes $55,000 through his job at a medical-device company, and it does not provide a health insurance plan.
Once he first purchased the plan, he was paying $278 per month. These premiums then shot up to $400 once his full salary kicked in, forcing the man to cancel the coverage and pay $180 per month for a limited plan through National General Insurance.
This decision comes as the Trump administration rolled back the Affordable Care Act regulations in 2018 and allowed "junk plans" on the market.
These junk plans offer short-term, low-benefit coverage for people, but they also are not required to meet the law's standards for health coverage, meaning the plans could avoid covering pre-existing conditions or offering protections from large out-of-pocket expenses.
One problem people run into when shopping for insurance plans is the way these junk plans are advertised. Someone might think they have coverage for certain expenses only to discover later they don't.
Mr Azcue discovered that not only does he owe $1,400 out of pocket, but he also needs to provide his insurer with three years of medical records to prove that the flu he got didn't relate to a pre-existing condition. If for some reason the flu related to a pre-existing condition, then the insurer would no longer pay a portion of the man's bill.
Jackson Memorial Hospital, where Mr Azcue received his tests, told the Miami Herald more bills are on its way to the man. It is not clear what else he will have to pay for after getting tested for the coronavirus.
That’ll help the compliance rate with testing!
Tom McDowell
BAMN
12m ago 12:47
Helena Smith
The first person to have succumbed to Covid-19 in Greece is doing well, doctors say.
The 38-year-old woman, who recently travelled to northern Italy where she is believed to have contracted the virus, is likely to spend weeks undergoing treatment in the specialist ward of Thessaloniki’s Ahepa hospital, said Sotiris Tsiodras, heading the contagious diseases team at the Ministry of Health.
Her relatives have been placed in quarantine, while an inquiry is underway to ascertain who she has been in contact with.
“The young woman is in good condition and is being watched by a team of excellent doctors,” Tsiodras told a packed news conference emphasising how vital it was that people kept to basic hygiene rules such as regularly washing their hands.
“In the coming those who have come from affected areas of northern Italy must stay at home and monitor their health and in the event of symptoms inform their doctor,” he said, adding that the 38-year-old was otherwise in good health.
Groups of Greek school children, who had been travelling in Italy at the time of the outbreak, continued Wednesday to be brought back to Greece.
There are concerns that after years of being savaged by steep budget cuts as a result of its long running debt crisis, Greece’s public health system will struggle to cope if the disease isn’t contained. “Everyone knows that our public hospitals are not in the best way,” Andreas Mendis at the country’s Pasteur Institute told local TV. “But on issues of public health we have a good record.”
Alarmed by the spread of the virus across Europe and in parts of the neighbouring Balkans, the Greek government announced an array of preventative measures on Tuesday. They include Greek authorities having the right to use private clinics and medical services if required to curb the disease.
www.theguardian.com
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Helena Smith
The first person to have succumbed to Covid-19 in Greece is doing well, doctors say.
The 38-year-old woman, who recently travelled to northern Italy where she is believed to have contracted the virus, is likely to spend weeks undergoing treatment in the specialist ward of Thessaloniki’s Ahepa hospital, said Sotiris Tsiodras, heading the contagious diseases team at the Ministry of Health.
Her relatives have been placed in quarantine, while an inquiry is underway to ascertain who she has been in contact with.
“The young woman is in good condition and is being watched by a team of excellent doctors,” Tsiodras told a packed news conference emphasising how vital it was that people kept to basic hygiene rules such as regularly washing their hands.
“In the coming those who have come from affected areas of northern Italy must stay at home and monitor their health and in the event of symptoms inform their doctor,” he said, adding that the 38-year-old was otherwise in good health.
Groups of Greek school children, who had been travelling in Italy at the time of the outbreak, continued Wednesday to be brought back to Greece.
There are concerns that after years of being savaged by steep budget cuts as a result of its long running debt crisis, Greece’s public health system will struggle to cope if the disease isn’t contained. “Everyone knows that our public hospitals are not in the best way,” Andreas Mendis at the country’s Pasteur Institute told local TV. “But on issues of public health we have a good record.”
Alarmed by the spread of the virus across Europe and in parts of the neighbouring Balkans, the Greek government announced an array of preventative measures on Tuesday. They include Greek authorities having the right to use private clinics and medical services if required to curb the disease.
Trump puts Pence in charge of US virus response – as it happened
Saudi Arabia bans religious tourists from entering country as WHO says virus now spreading faster outside China than in it.
www.theguardian.com
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I'm pretty sure he answered on his opinion on CS many many pages ago. He's a PA and he has gone out of his way to share his wealth of knowledge with the rest of us. I've known him for over 10 years (so he's not some guy on the internet to me) and he genuinely cares for people and he is only sharing his knowledge to help others. You don't have to agree with him or like what he has to say, but he will NEVER do or say anything to hurt the chances of people surviving.